Can you ask your guests how they feel about Obama’s pick for VP?

I thought that Joe Biden was one of the stars on the compaign trail and in the Senate. I do hope that they get elected. It would be wonderful to have people in the government who understand its role.

Why does a candidate who’s running on ‘change and a new politics’ surround himself with insiders experienced with old politics?

Where are the fresh faces and ‘out of the box’ thinkers?

As Obama reaches for assets as defined by McCain the polls tighten?

Two predictions and a hope:

1) Senator Kennedy will tell the story of his own nomination fight to point out why Hillary’s delegates need to reconcile themselves and support her career as a senator.

2) Joe Biden will get more attention than the usual vice-presidential candidate because the press corps will dog him hoping for a gaffe.

The hope: The Democratic convention will be grand theatre that will end in catharsis.

I am sick and tired of hearing this BS.

The attack ads McCain is producing keeping the media off the point.

They are based on false accusations.

Liz Halloran and people of her ilk are not helping this country. Talk about the issues please!

The country is going over a cliff economically and they are talking about attack adds!

Give me a break.

Hillary lost because her campaign organization was dysfunctional.

I have one thing to say to women and others who are die-hard Hillary Clinton supporters, the Supreme Court and our eroding Bill of Rights: you are acting like spoiled little children who did not get their way. Get over it, vote for your party.

I am still trying to figure out why some Clinton supporters would through in their lot with McCain, given the ugly joke he told before a GOP fundraiser in 1998 that targeted her daughter Chelsea:
http://blogs.trb.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/2008/02/past_mccains_old_chelsea_joke.html

or McCain laughing in response to a supporter who asked him “How do we beat the b*tch”…”
http://www.metatube.com/play/5760/Clinton–How-do-we-stop-the-bitch-John-McCain.html

And this uber misogynist gem….

Irreverence in the abstract is one thing. But McCain’s specific jokes can be harder for some to stomach. Liberal bloggers have recently revived what is by far the most offensive of McCain’s reported jokes, one that his aides say he doesn’t recall telling, but which was reported in the Tucson Citizen, an Arizona paper, during his 1986 Senate campaign:

“Did you hear the one about the woman who is attacked on the street by a gorilla, beaten senseless, raped repeatedly and left to die? When she finally regains consciousness and tries to speak, her doctor leans over to hear her sigh contently and to feebly ask, ‘Where is that marvelous ape?’”

From: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11823.html

Beyond the similarities in the politics of Obama and Sen . Hillary Clinton and their clear differences from those of McCain, surely die-hard Clinton supporters should by asking themsleves can they pull the lever for a misogynist like McCain.

My vote in November will not only be against the Republicans, but against the Democrats whose behavior throughout the primaries was as foul as that of the press.

I had recently taken the voters’ oath in Vermont and promised not to allow my vote to be swayed by any person when Senator Patrick Leahy announced that Hillary Clinton should quit so there could be party unity. Clinton was winning primaries right up to the end. Leahy and many other Democratic leaders seem to think that what we the people had to say was irrelevant. Imagine how many votes Clinton lost because of their behavior.

I had hoped that when Clinton gave a speech in NYC after the primaries, that she would be announcing the formation of a 3rd party; Clinton/Bloomberg. I will be voting for Bloomberg in November. At least he has had the intelligence and integrity to leave both parties.

I agree Senator Patrick Leahy and others were out of line but that is not what cost Hillary the primary.

Clinton lost because her organization was not run well and in the end they hurt her more than the Leahy’s out there.

Obama won because his organization was better; witness how well they had kept the VP announcement quiet.

I’m an independent who dislikes the Republicans more than the Democrats, but the choice is not that great to me.

Vote for Bloomberg? He’s a billionaire who is so out of touch — it’s not even funny.

Nader at least speaks to the issues. Corporate greed and control over our country and the need to fix the health care mess we are in.

I also had hope that the long democratic primary might birth an independent candidate the media could not ignore.

A HOPE: That the PBS/NPR media will not join the rest of the MMS in echoing distracting smears on Obama – e.g., ignore the faux tempest over the PUMAs. Why? Well, because major coverage of big negative smears (remember the Swift Vote influence?) will influence voters to dump Obama (see Yes!: 50 Scientifically Proven Ways to Be Persuasive). I do not keep my membership in NPR to listen to it working free for the Republican noise machine.

Correction: Joe Biden does bring influence in an important swing state: Pennsylvania. Delaware campaigns are run in the Southeastern PA media market, and Joe Biden has very significant name recognition there. One of your talking heads needs to take note.

I don’t really care why Hillary lost; the fact is that she lost and Obama won and if the Dem’s don’t get over their divisions and unite strongly behind Obama in the general election he won’t be able to win it.

So far, the support from the Hillary camp has been lukewarm at best, and if she and Bill are worried about their political legacies, they may want to consider what they will be if their lack of support is perceived as keeping the Dem’s out of the White House in the coming term.

Nate says:
“
Why does a candidate who’s running on ‘change and a new politics’ surround himself with insiders experienced with old politics?

I also had hope that the long democratic primary might birth an independent candidate the media could not ignore.
”

When in modern times has an independent party candidate ever won the general election? You can’t win the general election without a strong organization, and that’s what the party provides. I’m surprised that someone even has to explain this to you.

More broadly, Obama is the “fresh face” – it’s about as fresh as Americans are willing to tolerate. (if that!) Any more fresh faces on the ticket would make it unelectable.

You and other Democrats must decide if you care whether Democrats are elected or whether you’re just trying to make some kind of abstract point and hold an election like a piece of installation art.

In another thread Jeff raised the point that the two parties are basically the same – a sort of tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee of politics. While I agree that the Dems and the GOP are both basically corporate shills and in the pockets of money and power I’m not convinced they are identical. If we compare the Clinton administration to the Bush one there are noticable differences that make me slightly prefer the former. So I think it probably does matter who wins.

“A HOPE: That the PBS/NPR media will not join the rest of the MMS in echoing distracting smears on Obama – e.g., ignore the faux tempest over the PUMAs. Why? Well, because major coverage of big negative smears (remember the Swift Vote influence?) will influence voters to dump Obama”

Maybe so, but that doesn’t mean it’s not newsworthy. In a mass media society perceptions are news. NPR’s obligation is to cover the entire election, and if there are lots of stupid Americans who think Obama is a secret Muslim then that is part of the election story, just as the Swift Boat campaign was part of the last election story.

BTW, what’s “MMS”? I looked it up in an acronym dictionary and got “Maximum Message Size, Merchant Management System, Microsoft Media Server and Multimedia Messaging Service”.

Commentators, those at the top of the hour and so many others, continually talk about the defection and disillusionment of Hillary supporters without citing evidence to support their claims (anecdotes don’t count). Aren’t these pundits just trying to create a more dramatic, more exciting narrative than the situation warrants?

After the fear-mongering, war-mongering, corporate pandering, lobbyist-whoring, environmental destruction, Katrina incompetence, economic incompetence, and language incompetence of the repubs, why would anyone with half a brain vote for a repub?

McCain is more of the same. That’s not what we need.

Stop whining over the “divisions” among democrats. Start focusing on the issues that matter.

“Commentators, those at the top of the hour and so many others, continually talk about the defection and disillusionment of Hillary supporters without citing evidence to support their claims (anecdotes don’t count).”

I’m not sure that anecdotes don’t count – if you hear enough of them it may signify a real problem. I hang out with mostly Subaru-driving, tree-hugging, fair-trade-coffee-drinking liberals and whenever I mention that I like Obama I reliably get accosted by a bitter Hillary supporter who thinks the country’s not ready for Obama and we would rue the day the Dem’s rejected Hillary.

Aren’t these pundits just trying to create a more dramatic, more exciting narrative than the situation warrants?

Here’s the problem – and I posted this in another thread – the conventions are not really news stories – they are too scripted and predictable and great effort has been spent to make sure nothing unexpected happens. (see last Friday’s OTM) But all the networks have invested lots of time and effort to “cover” these non-news news events so they need to talk about something so they are reaching for any little bit of drama or excitement they can find. I think this is a direct result of trying to take something that has very little real news value and pump it up so reporters and producsers can justify their expense accounts in being there.

After the fear-mongering, war-mongering, corporate pandering, lobbyist-whoring, environmental destruction, Katrina incompetence, economic incompetence, and language incompetence of the repubs, why would anyone with half a brain vote for a repub?

What makes you think most American voters can scrape together a half a brain?

Anyway, the problem for the Dem’s is not that people might vote for the Republicans. The problem is that bitter, disillusioned Hillary supporters might fail to support Obama.

As of today (post-Biden) McCain and Obama are in a dead heat in the latest CNN/Opinion Research poll. IMO a lot of this is due to the half-hearted support from the Hillary camp.

The first question about any candidate is, who are his/her campaign contributors? And what are they getting for their money? This program is falling down on that today. The competition is doing a lot better http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/25/rick_macarthur_you_cant_be_president

Posted by Michele Carrier, on August 25th, 2008:
“My vote in November will not only be against the Republicans, but against the Democrats whose behavior throughout the primaries was as foul as that of the press.”

Michele
1) Can you give us a list of 5 mistakes that led to Hillary Clinton’s loss? (yes I know you still think that she won and that the DNC is evil).

2)Can you list 5 things that Hillary Clinton can show as evidence of “35 years of experience”?
Positions in state/local government, laws or bills passed. NOT what Bill Clinton has done but what Hillary Clinton has accomplished on her OWN.

3) There are two types of female leaders: one type is elected due to past performance of a male family member (Sonia Gandhi, Benazir Butto)the other type works her way up the ladder on her own: (Golda Meir, Angela Merkel, Pelosi). Which camp does Hillary belong to?

4) Hillary Clinton believes that the country is too racist for Obama to win, but that she lost due to sexism. There are official records of surverys and interviews listing people who will not vote for Obama due to his race. Hillary Clinton has thus far being unable to show similar records and surveys. Can you show us a website or documents validating her claim?

5) Hillary Clinton read and signed her name promising to follow the rules of the DNC, but now wants all votes from the caucus’ to be null, for Michigan and Florida to be counted, for all super delegates that switched from her to her to obama to be null always.
Should the DNC go ahead with those changes?

6) If yes, to #5, should Bill Clinton’s 1st Primary and presidency be now also considered null?

7) Speaker Pelosi raised 5 children and then began a political career after they were adults. She went through some tough elections but eventually worked her way up to now being 2 heart beats away from the presidency.
However, she did not support Senator Clinton during the primaries. Should the DNC force her to step down as speaker?

Thanks for your reponse.

I would just like to offer some direct canvassing input re Bill Clinton’s indignation at comments thrown about him being a racist. I’m from RI, and volunteered in several States, including Conway, SC and Springfield, PA. At an evening meeting just prior to the primary in SC, a cheery, well-educated African American grandmother described how she had walked into the local DNC office and was told they had no literature on Obama. She said she would give them just 3 mins to find some, or she’d file a civil law suit on them. After our meeting, she told me that the black community felt Bill Clinton was deliberately trying to suppress their vote. She said it felt just like fighting for the vote in the civil rights era. I was shocked at her feeling blacks were in a battle to express their voice.

My other experience was especially dramatic. On the morning of the PA primary, I canvassed with a young African American who had never ever done that sort of thing before. He was SO excited as we drove around the streets, but again and again we were interrupted by phone calls he took from friends who were panicking about voting exactly right. They wanted his advice, they needed reassurance. It was easy for them to recognize the presidential choice but it was the list of officials below that, which made the voting process a bit confusing – even for those of us who had been volunteering in the office throughout that week. My young companion began to grow more and more despondant. He decided that he might have even voted wrong himself. Not even a local DNC official with the Obama campaign standing at one of the primary voting stations could bring that confidence back.

He told me this: We just KNOW that the Clintons are going to try and steal this election from us.

His visible distress, and the clear anger of the grandmother down in Conway, SC have remained with me. When Senator Clyburn made that statement in April about blacks feeling there was a Clinton conspiracy, that the Clintons would do everything they possibly could to damage Obama to a point that he could never win – I thought yes, that was dead accurate.

I would just like to offer some direct canvassing input re Bill Clinton’s indignation at comments thrown at him about being a racist. I’m from RI, and volunteered in several States, including Conway, SC and Springfield, PA. At an evening meeting just prior to the primary in Conway, SC a well-educated African American grandmother described how she had walked into the local DNC office and was told they had no literature on Obama. She said she would give them just 3 mins to find some, or she’d file a civil law suit on them. After our meeting, she told me that the black community felt Bill Clinton was deliberately trying to suppress their vote. She said it felt just like fighting for the vote in the civil rights era. I was shocked at her opinion that blacks were in a battle to express their voice.

My other experience was especially dramatic. On the morning of the PA primary, I canvassed with a young African American who had never ever done that sort of thing before. He was SO excited as we drove around the streets, but again and again our progress was interrupted by phone calls which he took from friends who were panicking about getting the voting procedure exactly right. They wanted his advice, they needed reassurance. It was easy for them to see the presidential choice but it was the list of officials below that, which made the voting process a bit confusing – even for those of us who had been volunteering in the office throughout that week. My young companion began to grow more and more despondant. He decided that he might have even voted wrong himself. Not even a local DNC official with the Obama campaign standing at one of the primary voting stations could bring that confidence back.

He told me this: We just KNOW that the Clintons are going to try and steal this election from us.

His visible distress, and the clear anger of the grandmother down in Conway, SC have remained with me. When Senator Clyburn made that statement in April about blacks feeling there was a Clinton conspiracy, that the Clintons would do everything they possibly could to damage Obama to a point that he could never win – I thought yes, that was dead accurate.

Some of Mark Twain’s words on the subject:

The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter, they are an entire banquet.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

The new political gospel: public office is private graft.
Mark Twain

In religion and politics people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
- Autobiography of Mark Twain

Look at the tyranny of party–at what is called party allegiance, party loyalty–a snare invented by designing men for selfish purposes–and which turns voters into chattles, slaves, rabbits, and all the while their masters, and they themselves are shouting rubbish about liberty, independence, freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, honestly unconscious of the fantastic contradiction; and forgetting or ignoring that their fathers and the churches shouted the same blasphemies a generation earlier when they were closing their doors against the hunted slave, beating his handful of humane defenders with Bible texts and billies, and pocketing the insults and licking the shoes of his Southern master.
- “The Character of Man,” Mark Twain’s Autobiography