Ugh. I feel like I’m in grade school (20 min into the show so far). “Disney saw the screen, kids, and he imagined Mickey Mouse up there!” Can we up this talk to graduate level? Is there anything new here or more common sense being dressed up as a revolutionary new scientific field.

I am finding this talk interesting, particularly coming back to back with the talk about transformative thinking and economic problems.
The central question in transformative thinking is the capacity to balance “challenge” with “support”. Too much threat to our beliefs, values, and perceptions will close a person down to new “integrated” thinking. Too much support (singing to the choir) will not disrupt the status-Q.

We must learn how to navigate strong feelings without letting those feeling cripple us.

Terrific show! Two questions:
1. My son seems to be a natural “out of the box” thinker. He often has to swim upstream in a typical school environment. What can a parent do to help foster the benefits of this type of thinking?
2. My personal experience leads me to believe the iconoclastic brain may have a genetic component. My Dad was a terrific inventor–mediocre student; had a tough time fitting into his traditional role. Today, someone might say he had ADD.

Could kids being labeled ADD/ADHD today BE young iconoclastic thinkers?

Thanks! Amy

Can you use a real world example to explore why, for example, do some people resist the threat of global climate change or some other collective issue such as 9/11.

I’ve heard that people with dyslexia are wired for innovative/iconoclastic thinking. Does your research support this?

I am an innovator and I was diagnosed with ADD, which I control with medication. I definitely ascribe much of my ability to innovate to my “condition”.

It’s estimated that about 10% of the population has ADD, far higher than I would expect if it were a disadvantage to be selected out by evolution. Therefore, ADD and its attendant behaviors, such as novelty-seeking and impulsivity may persist for a reason. Perhaps it is necessary for innovation in our species.

If this is the case, it has very significant and unaddressed implications for education, the workplace and medical treatment vis a vis this “condition” that we are doing a very poor job addressing.

Bill’s comments about societal synchrony in fish and birds to thwart predators begs the question who are the human predators?

How does drug use relate to creative thinking?

I spent a little over twenty years as a student in the box of schools. I spent the next twenty years as a teacher, educational researcher and professor of education — still in that same box. After trying (and failing) to reshape the K12 box from a perch in higher ed, I returned to the high school classroom.

In the first week or two of school last year — it hit me like a ton of bricks. The very idea of school — of putting 20 some odd kids in a room at a time with a single adult (or maybe two) for an hour at a time, hour after hour after hour; day after day after day; year after year after year is essentially a really bad idea. If the goal is to develop thinkers who have understandings of the natural and social worlds that inform their decision making it’s a bad idea, anyway.

I talk about this with a lot of people now and they almost universally agree with me while also seeing me as a radical.

Weird.

How much of these traits are inbred and how much are cultivated? Will we ever know and is it really important to know? I think we know that the evolutionary strength of the human species lies in its ability to balance the benefits of group action with the need for unique thinking. We likely all have the traits of both, but like “fight or flight” use whichever trait serves us best in a given moment. Can you comment?

I feel like this discussion misses the main point. We don’t necessarily need MORE innovative thinkers. There are whole companies of innovators out there already, and there are millions of ideas waiting to be turned into reality. The real question I would like to have explored is how can someone be changed in a way that makes them more accepting of innovation. How do people begin to change their way of thinking to accept the innovations already available today? (not so much how do people become innovative, but accepting of innovation in general)

Have to tamp down fear response. Critical.

Too much challenge… yes, strong emotion.

I’d be glad to see psychology factored in more in the study of economics, but this is surely not it. A passing familiarity with the work of the neuropsychologist Joseph LeDoux tells us that fear based responses in the amygdala are pretty unreachable no matter how we eercise our cortical powers. We pretty much have to accept that such links will always be with us–that we will feel fear even though we shoose to disregard it. If there are differences in brains regarding novel thinking or acting–and these are indeed dirrerent–they have been investigated under the rubric of risk-seeking and other behavioral (thus studyable) phenomena.

J. Keegan’s comment highlights some of the consequences of not accepting the behaviors in our educational system and workplace, be they ADD, ADHD, dyslexia or simple eccentricity, that drive innovation.

“The real question I would like to have explored is how can someone be changed in a way that makes them more accepting of innovation. How do people begin to change their way of thinking to accept the innovations already available today? (not so much how do people become innovative, but accepting of innovation in general)”
Posted by J. Keegan, on September 17th, 2008 at 11:53 am EDT

Good question.

Great topic.

Disappointing presentation, not crisp and concise. No practical advice.

Given that the U.S. is facing declining status as an innovator (read “Innovation Nation”) and the current Republican-sponsored anti-intellectual tone of the presidential election, I am surprised that there was no practical advice, as noted by jas, especially considering that the guest represents a policy group.

I definitely want to read the book. I am a student of the issues addressed on the show. Thanks for having Mr. Burns.
Critic: not enough time, wandering a bit, no practical advice.

Regarding the species-wide capacity of the human mind to be innovative and what might increase an individual’s ability to innovate,I would like to ask if any studies are being done on emotional discharge (crying and laughing, in particular) which reduces tension, among other things. I discovered I had a “fear of concentrating” which I know sounds ridiculous, and it would take too long to explain how it developed. But not only can I deliberately activate the process of emotional discharge in order to reduce tension when thinking about social issues and scientific ideas, I can allow all kinds of thoughts and images to surface from, I guess, the emotional unconscious. This seems to free me up for creative thinking more than anything I have experienced. I can’t help but wonder what’s going on in the brain when this happens. I’m 63; I’ve been doing this for 34 years, originally in a psychotherapeutic situation and now in the human situation, i.e., while thinking about the issues mentioned above: scientific ideas and social issues. Can’t say I’ve accomplished anything other than have a livlier mind than I did when I was 53. Dr. Joseph LeDoux, a neuroscientist, responded to an email I send him inquiring about research and he replied that he knew of none being done. It seems to me that modern technology is ready for research on this process and I know that people like me can intentionally activate the process and are ready to be “subjects.” It’s rather like meditation, the process, where you try to “cling” the the emotion and the ideas that arise rather than allow them to pass. You cling…and discharge.

As a medical doctor working in rehabilitation and geriatrics, trained and practicing Hypnosis, Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Time Empowerment(TM) Techniques, my Dopamine Levels rose logarithmically with this program.

I did not get on the air, so I post my questions/comments here:

1. According to Gregg Braden in his book DIVINE MATRIX it takes only the square root of 1% of the individuals in a population to change the state of the entire population. This is how the few can reverse the “herd effect”

2. Any individual can eliminate the inhibiting effect of fear through techniques that work with the conscious / unconscious mind interface. Hypnosis based techniques do this, as do behaviorally based techniques such as anchoring. All it takes is the willingness to do it, and a safe environment in which to practice it.

3. The progression of most illnesses, especially “age related” ones, are the direct result of the decision to limit one’s self identity to that which we already have experienced in the past, rather than continuing to create and renew visions of a future.

Tanya mentioned Dr. LeDoux, I see. Bet she read THE EMOTIONAL BRAIN. The link with the amygda isn’t all bad; I think evolution cleverly designed us so that we have the rational option to integrate the various brain “modules,” and based on my experience, that integration occurs dramatically during emotional discharge when memories, emotions, thoughts, and ideas course through the mind…all available for reflection. I’m amazed at how precise the mind during this process,too. If it is designed, by evolution at the least, to accurately process and evaluate information, we must be hampering it’s ability when we condition ourselves to avoid the process of emotional discharge. The process uncovers more information, does it rapidly, and discharges tension as it does so. Ergo, information overload can be handled. In 5 minutes we can unload our tension and plunge forward in the information stream.

I am heartened by Amy Jonak’s comment above. I am a 54 year old adult with ADD. Having ADD has been a curse for many aspects of my life, and it has also been a gift. I purport that ADD/ADHD is a USEFUL and WONDERFUL TOOL for thinking outside and far beyond any box. Its my belief that education, medical and mental health professionals unwittingly stunt the intellectual development of ADD-ers by helping them back inside the box where life is felt to be more rewarding, more productive, and safer.

When life gives you lemons… why not strive to make a decent lemonade? Can’t we teach “real” world navigation without squelching the good stuff?

I am on my way out to find a copy of Gregory Berns’ book. I wish I could find a local and accessible counselor/vocational rehabilitator/coach/educator who thought this way and had the means to move us on… !

Thanks for this show Tom!

Sallie, In response to your wish for a counselor, though perhaps not local, Ed Hallowell and John Ratey, both of Boston, have educated and counseled extensively in this area. They also wrote a pretty good book: Driven to Distraction.

I was looking for the quote by Henry Ford that Berns spoke of today.

Thanks everyone for listening and raising some great questions. We didn’t have time on the show to get into much practical advice, but if you’re really curious I would encourage you to pick up a copy of my book. The book is written from a neuroscience perspective. I believe that by understanding how basic neural systems related to perception, fear, and social intelligence function that we can all think and behave more like an iconoclast (if that’s what you want). I try to avoid general advice because I don’t think generalities are that helpful. Instead, I let the reader see how these ideas apply in their own circumstances.

Amy, for your son’s welfare, please investigate the Unschooling movement. Check out the work of A.S. Neill, John Holt, John Taylor Gatto, and Roger Schank. Another poster’s blog Don Duggan-Haas looks like he is on the right track too.

J. Keegan, excellent point. Someone said there are three stages for the acceptance of truth (maybe similar for innovation, and other movements away from status quo.) 1) Ridicule, 2) Violent opposition (This step is sometimes skipped), and 3) Acceptance.
To effect change one must plug away intrepidly in a democratic activist fashion.
Having said this, which is easy to say and harder to do, I certainly share your frustration.

This would explain why people can’t see why Iraq is for the coveting of natural resources, why they can’t see 9/11 for what it was, and why people genuinely think the establishment that runs the country are there for the benefit of the general people.

I did not like the whole tenor of the discussion. I tried to get on the air, but I think I must
be listening to a rebroadcast. The idea that there are only a few iconoclasts capable of thinking out of the box can be very discouraging for the rest of us.

Another quote from your guest was (more or less) that only a small percentage have the natural affinity for change. What evidence is there for this outrageous claim? It seems to deny the important work done by many scientists, students, artists etc. While it may cbe true that only a few make truly great discoveries, there is still plenty to do for the rest of us (I think TS Kuhn discusses this very well in his influential book The structure of scientific revolutions)

In response to a caller who mentioned some of his own experience with innovation, your guest gave the story about the guy who spent 10 years developing FM radio, and then committed suicide when he could not bring it to market. What a depressing example. DO NOT BUY THIS BOOK.
.
I think it is important to think out of the box, and I always encourage my students to do so.

IM, Professor of Mathematics.

THE UNIVERSITY OF THE ABSOLUTE
112 North Mills street
Apartment 210
Madison, Wisconsin 53715

ATTENTION: To whom it may concern

At the opening; I am realizing the black hole theorie, the quantum theorie, the theorie of the relativity, the theorie of the singularity and a lot of the other of the various forms of the theories those proposed by persons who are thinking about the all of these types of the not good sciences.

The theories of the intertainment of the alleged “fabrique of space” and the like, all as entertained by the contemporaries…it is the all of these types of the theories what are about of the use of the pseudo-science. The kind of the stuff what is about mental types of the speculation, not determined as real, this is that use of the erroneous types of the experiments what are made of an use, allegedly, so to be allowed, allegedly, to prove as real the various types of the un-real types of the things of those unreal what are impossible to prove as being real.

The real types of teh thngs are made of an use in the means of the performance of the various types of the experiments made of an use so to prove or to disprove of things proven or dis-proven as real when makgn of an use of a pragmatical means when making of an use of the real experimental evidence used in the developelnt of an use of a real type of an experiment deliberately performed when used to conclusively prove or conclusivey dis-prove of the real nature had or had not of things proven or dis-proven of an existential or of a non-existential means when makng of an use of a scientifiue means made an use of so to be allwoed to determne, demonstrate or tell as real the nature had of the different types of the phenomenally and or physicallyy related types of the things having of an phenomenally and or physically related types of the existance or non-existent as would be had of any knd of the different types fo the phenomenaland or physiccal things determined of an use of a scientifique means made of an use so to be allowed to do of it of a scientifique types of the thinks.

In the use of the scientifique means made of the use of the performance of the particularly different types of the experiments what may be made of an use to prove or to dis-prove of an existance or of a non-existence had of the differfent types of the phenomenally and or physically related types of the things alleged to exist what do not, in fact, exist; that the present means of the uses of the bogus science can not be used to prove, tell and demonstrate of an intricacy of the non-real working’s means or of an non-real existentiality’s means necessary to be had of the non-real type of the phenomenally and or physically related types of the phenomenal and or physical types of the non-real types of the thing impossibly proven and demonstrated as beng non-real when making of an use of a real scientifique means.

The dirction of physical science, now, is going in the direction of the use of mental speculation and the use of the pseudo scientifique experiments performed what can not be used to show, tell and demonstrate those types of the things real what are only possibel to be prove real when making of an use of those types of the real types of the things used to perform when makng of an use of the experiments performed making of an use of things real things that do exist used to prove and demonstrate of the things what do not fact exist and can not be used to prove, tell and demonstrate of things allegedly existentiql that do not exisst. In this way then, alleged, science of the day is of the means of the doing of the varius forms of the sue of the “pseudo science” performed when persons, of the day, are making of an use of things of the real made of an use to prove, tell and demonstrate, allegedly, of things havng no exitance what are quite un-real.

Rather then string theorie, the unified field theorie, the theorie of the relativity and the theorie of the quantum what are all about mental speculation and not, at all, about of an use means of the experiments performed to prove, tell and demonstrtate of the nature had of real things proved, demonstrated and revealeld when making of an use of things real and proven used in the experimetns, presently, being performed made of an use to prove or to disproce of an existance or of a workng’s means had of a things that does not exist…this is the mis-take made, presently, of the pseudo-scientists, but there are alternates to that of an use of the pseudo-science what can be made of an alternate means of an use so to be allowed to prove of real things proven of an use of a means making of an sue of real things used to do of it when not making of an use of the use means of the pseudo-science what, alternately, can not be made of an use to do of it, but, alternatively, it is possible to make an use of “that” what has to do with an existence of things what are true then made of an use of the proven types of the things used in the use of experiments performed to prove of the things real as proven real when making of an use of the real types of thethings used to prove real the things what are acctually of an real natrue proven as true wehn so proven of a use of a non-pseudo-scientifque means, these scientifique means made of an sue so to prove,tell and demonstrate the real scientifique nature as would be had of nature had of things. That the un-real can not be used to prove that what is real of the nature of thigns, that the pseudo-reality of things do not have to do with the means of an use so to prove of an real existance of real things, and that the latter method is that method of the present means of an use what, presently, are the methods of pseudo-science.

The scientifique method is that one of the necessary to be of the performance when making of an use of the things known to be real and existential and the pseudo-science is about of the use of things used of an experiment that do not and have not been proven to exist of a real and of a provable means then used in the performance of experiments…this of the latter alluded what is not, at all, about good science.

In genuine and real science the experiments performed are performed with the use of real things what are phenomenally and or physically known and proven to exist what are real but the pseudo-science is that use of the phenomenal and or physical things what are not at all provably known to exist as provenly real existance.

Of the alleged scientifique means of the investigations of the contemporaries, they are re-asserting in the areas of things speculated about made of an use in the performances of experiments making of an use of things not proven to exist…thiis is the methodology of pseudo-scicne, presently, being made of an use of the contemporaries. When making of an use of the alleged things proven to actually exist as real used in the performace of the experiments known of real science, this is the right direction of sciece.

Under the present and predominating circumstance; our country is looking at the emminece of the complete economique collapse had of the natins of the world while the energetique needs of our country are predicated in the use of the burning of the various types of the cumbustable fossil fuel products burned when produced of other countries used by the Americans used of a combustional reaction used in the American Repulque so to be allowed to obtain of the needed amounts of the energy needed for use to drive the industrial mills had of the American Republique driven of an use of an energetiques source’s means produced of a different nation of the world that one different then the American Republique.

That the environment becomes more polluted the result of the operation of the polluting industrial operations allowed to industrially operate in the land. So then the environmental pollution continues in the land and the impending economique collapse continues to threaten when the sources of the energetqiue sources are not, at all, those sources of the needed amounts of the energetique what are competitive with the use of the energetique sources possible to be obtained from the other of the different lands as would be located external to the American Republque.

So with the economique collapse of the American Natoin on the event horizen, with the increase of the polluted environment and with the present use of the energetique sources made of an use to generate of the needed amount of the energy required, for use, provided the American Nation had of a nation made of an sue toenergetically power of the industrial operations had of the American Nation energetically powered of another means of an use that source different then the energetique sources of the other of the natins of the world, when the needed amounts of the energy needed for use by the American Republque ils gotten from the other of the nations of the world, when the American Nation needs to be enabelled or empowered to profitably compete with the other of the nations of the world making of an use of a different energetique source those different then the energetique sources had of the other of the nation so the world, of these means then the American Nation is pressured to find and locate as well as employ, most immediately, of an new and differentg kind of a energetique source that one different then the energetiques source as would be proviced the American Nations by the any one of the other of the various nations of the world when the needed energetique source as needed by the American Republque is that needed energetique source what shuld be non contingent upon of the use of the energetique sources had of the other of the antion of the world. that is to say; in order to be allowed to survive, the American Republique in order to be allowed to continue to survive will needfully discover and employ of a use of an energetique source of a non-polluting means of the environment non polluted and of an use of a more profitable use means greater of a profitabilities means of an use more profitable and more competative and different from the use of the energetique sources had of the other of the natins of the world producng of the energy environmentaly polluting and non-competitive all of the energy as produced of the nations of the
world.

The research and the experimental means, allegedly, performances, presently, is being performed in the United States of America when making of an use of the pseudo-scientifique means making of an use of non-existent things used in the performance of experiments; these measures of the use of pseudo-science made of an use in the American Republque what then will not, at all, due of the American Nation. The pseudo-science used in the American Republue wiill not do so to allow the American Republique to make progress in terms of the discovery and use of a new and of and real use of an energetique source discovered and made of an profitable and of a competitive means used in the American Republque what then will not be allwoed in the united States of America performng of its related pseuo-scientifique experiemtns what then will not when non-rightly performed in terms of an use of the real scientifique advancements used in the direction of the use of Americans energetique power needs what will not, at al, happen in the American Republique making of an use of the pseudo-scientifique experimetns performed in the American Republique makign of an use means making of an use of the pseudo-scidnce.

The exhaustion of resources, the polluted environment and the economique collapsation of the American Republque resultng of the persuits of the pseudo-scientifique directins; if it is that the American nation does not concern itself in the doing of the real and non-pseudo-scientifique methdos of the research not making of an use of known and proven existences of the various type of the real things used in the performance of real types of the experiments used and performed in realscience sed to determine of the real nature and use of real things possible to use so to be allowed to be allowed to compete energetically, competitively and profitably with the other of the nations of the world.

The use of pseudo-science will not allow persons of the American Republque allowed to profitably compete with the other of the nations of the world when the need, now, of the American Nation is that one of an use means of a real types of the science used, experimentally, to determne of the real source of an energetique used in the American Republique so to be allowed to generate of its needed amounts the energetiques needed for use of an energetique means more profitaby and more progressively sued more competively to drive the industrial mills had of the American Republque necessary to be driven of an energetique means.

When driven of a more competitive means with the use of the other of the energetique sources had of the other of the nations of the world, the American Nation will be further accellerated n the directn of the economique and pollitical collapse…so then the relevance and the necessity of the American Republique needful of an use of real science made of an use so as then to be allowed to determine as to the nature of some alternate means of an use means made of an use so to be allowed to generate of the needed amouts of the energetiques as requried for use by the American Nation what then is requiring of an use of a new kidn of an energetique system made of an use in the Americn Republique made of an use so to globally and industrially light and power planet earth electrically and industrially lighted and powered like the stars.

The use of the methods of the pseudo-sciecne will not do of the use of the American Republique making of an use of pseudo-sciences made of an use, impossibly, in the means of the determination of the nature of things, and that the use of the pseudo-science is that what is not of the essentiality of the means of the use so to be allowed industrially and of and electrically to determine of the means of an use so to be allowed to make of an use of a new kind of an energetique source required for use so to be allowed to accomplish of the of the electridal and of the industrial means of the lighting and powering of planet earth lighted and powered, electrically and industrially, lighted and powered like the stars, also, lighted and powered of an electrical and of an industrial means.

William H. Millard
wwmillard@earthlink.ent

talk@npr.org

Post Script:

The means of the use of the burning of the fossil fuels used, allegedly, to generationally develop of the needed amaunt of the energetiques needed for use so to be allowed to power the American Industiral mills accomplished of a means of an use so to allow of the continued exisance of the American Republique continued of a means of an use means applied so to be enabelled to be allowed of an economique continued existance of the American Republque, the use of the atomique means, the use of the wind’s means, both, used to generatioal develop of the needed amountsd of the alectrque power, the use of the solar methods and the use of the wind’s means of the use to generationally develop of the needed amouts of the electrique power…the none of these methdods of the use to generationally develop of the needed amouts of the energetiques will do so to be allowed to competitively allow of the continuance’ means of the America Nation then near impossible to be prevented and or precluded from its eminent economique means of the necessary collapsation.

That the means of the energetique sources of the use in the American Republique will dis-allow of an continuance of the economique collapse of the American Republique. When the economique collapse of the American Republique are of an essentiality to be precluded, the other-wise imminent collapsation of the American Republique can be precluded of an means of an use of the real sciences sed so to be allowed to preclude of the, other-wise, imminent collapsation of the American Republique.

That the non-pseudo sciences and the methods of the use of it can be made of an use so to be allowed to discover, demonstrate and make of an use of so to be allowed to avoid ofthe economique collapse of the America Republique; on thisaccount then of an use of the real types of the scientifique had of the real types of the sciences what can be made of an use so to be allowed of an use so to be allowed to determine of the nature of the real sources means of the new kinds of the enrgetique sourcesdetermined of an use of a real scientifique means made of a use so as then to preclude of the other-wise, imminent collapse of the American Republique possible to prevent when preventable of an use of an non-pseudo-scientifique means what can be made of an use to solve and remove of the problems had of the American Nation possible to be solved and resolved of an use of a non-pseudo-scientifique means made of an use by which to be allowed to do of it.

The use of the burning of the coal, oil, gas and wood will to due and the use of the wind, the solar and the atomiques, similarly, will not due because the economique system of the world requires of the American Republque allowed to continue competitibvly and commercially to continue if it is that the economiques system of the world would continue to be manifest.

In order to constrain of the continued existence eo the economique system hd of the world allowed to continued t exist it become incumbent upon of the American Republique contained to make of an use of an differientiated of an energetique system that tone different then the burning of wood, the burning of coal, oil and gas, the use of the atomique energy what can not be used to be allowed, most completively of the world up-held of an economique means making of an sue of the burning of fossil fuels, there of wind power, the use of solar energy and the use of atomique energy impossiby used byhe Amercna Nation so then impossiby allow of the continuance of the Amercan Nation.

And that n order to continue the economique system had, necessariy hd of the world continued, as is, the American Nation needful more profitably and more competitively so to beallwoed competitivey and profitbly allowed to compete with the other of the nations of the wold, about this can only be accompanied of an use means of another kind of an energetiques system used by the United states of American so to generate completively, profitably, commercially and commercially of its needed amouots of the energetique generated of a different means of an use other one of an use means of those of the use of the burning of wood, coal, gas and oil and of an alternate means of a use of the use means of the of wind power, solar power and of an use means of the atomiques made of a use to produce of the needed amounts of the needed amounts of the power.

now i know why my wife and i dont see eye to eye. i’m an iconoclast she’s a smart conformist

It’s interesting there are so many posters with ADD here. In the high tech field where I work Aspberger’s Syndrome (a sort of high functioning autism with really poor social skills) is a somewhat common affliction, as well.

And in both cases I hear sufferers claim that these are assets – that somehow these mental problems translate into higher creativity or cognitive powers.

I have to say I’ve never seen any evidence for it. As you might imagine in an occupation surrounded by scientists and engineers, I see smart, creative people all the time. Most of them do not have ADD or Aspberger’s or any other apparent deficit, but somehow they do good creative work.

It may be that some jobs are more tolerant of these deficits – an ADD sufferer who surfs the web 9-5, but then stays til midnight to finish his bug-fixing may do fine as a sw engineer, but would fail as a stockbroker. As Aspberger’s who never makes eye-contact could still write good signal-processing algorithms, etc. But that doesn’t make these conditions assets.

Somewhat in response to Mr. Nelson, above….

Temple Grandin is a well known person with Aspergers who has been an iconoclast in her field. Look for her book, “Animals in Translation” or read what Oliver Sachs had to say about her in books he wrote. Everyone with Aspergers is different. Some are more “gifted” than others, as in any population, and Ms Grandin’s giftedness should not be considered a “fluke.”

Some difficult attributes that accompany ADD/ADHD also serve as a sound basis for creative problem solving. Hyperactive brains are fertile grounds for new ideas, and for new approaches to old problems. ADD-ers are CEO’s, entertainers, entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors… and maybe several of these at once. Each person who has ADHD is different; some more “gifted” as in any population.

People living in the “margins” tend to develop a unique perspective on the world and often the wisdom of an iconoclast can be found therein. [Marginal types: Such as those living with with ADHD or Aspergers Syndrome, or by virtue of some other difference from peers in the mainstream, by virtue of Race, Physical or Mental Abilities, Religion, Sexual Orientation, etc etc)]

We need to be more careful as to whom we write-off! Everyone is flawed in some way, and the world could never have too many iconoclasts, whatever circumstances one is born from.

As an educator, I agree with Dr. Burns. Perception, as the information is understood or processed comes from how stimuli is interpreted and related to past experiences. We “learn” by taking in information through our senses, and linking it to what we have learned or experienced before, thereby giving the stimuli meaning (as we understand it…this is why the same stimuli can have completely different conceptual messages for two different people). Thus, our brains work efficiently and can learn relatively quickly, by building on what it already knows.
But what happens to information when it is given priority (extra energy), rather that fitting in neatly with preformed ideas and concepts? What if this new stimuli does not easily relate to what is already stored? What causes some to react with confusion or bewilderment, stress or excitement, fear or curiosity? It is the difference between a serendipitous “aha” moment and that sinking feeling that things will not ever be comfortable again. This is where; I believe Dr Burns is dead on with his component of creating a safe social environment. As reading teacher for dyslexic students, I am finding that my students’ success rate is enhanced ten-fold when they are allowed to read with fluency, at ease, at whatever reading level they are most comfortable with…New phonemic concepts (which do not fit in with the previously mastered codes) are presented gradually and logically without compromising that safety net of fluid reading. The fear response that is observed when a struggling reader is faced with the task of reading unfamiliar “coded” material is a pure way of exemplifying Dr. Burns’ theory. Words that had previously been read with ease, when thrown together with unfamiliar phonemic codes (new patterns) get jumbled and reversed in the mix. Too much going on at once impedes the process. The paradox in all of this is the reality that most students with dyslexia are of normal intelligence, and many are considered to be “out of the box” thinkers. Could it be that creative, iconoclastic thinking is not necessarily dependant on ability to organize in a conventional way, the patterns that are repeated on a day to day basis…freeing up the brain to deal with the new and unusual…Or, is all stimuli simply swimming around in a state of blissful freedom allowing it to land in new and unusual places…?
Another question I have, being a special educator, pertains to the issue of ADHD students. Does the amygdale’s release of dopamine in response to too much stimuli (familiar or unfamiliar) cause the brain to overload and numb out the processing of information? There are studies that point to the success of programs that focus on mind and body discipline (karate, yoga, meditation) as ways to enhance one’s ability to attend even outside of the practice. Could this be a way of teaching ones self how to create a comfort zone within ones own mind, even while being exposed to conflicting and over stimulating information, thus reducing the output of too much dopamine?

We need to be more careful as to whom we write-off! Everyone is flawed in some way, and the world could never have too many iconoclasts, whatever circumstances one is born from.

No doubt this is true, but what I’m objecting to is when people claim that mental problems such as ADD or Aspberger’s are actual *advantages* WRT creativity. I know lots and lots of highly creative people who don’t suffer from any such disorders so clearly you don’t need to have problems to “think outside the box”. Creative people who suffer from those problems have probably developed good coping mechanisms and work in an environment that tolerates their eccentricities, but if we came up with a cure for those conditions tomorrow I’m sure they’d be just as creative, and probably more productive.

I agree with Mr. Nelson above, that one can be “neuro typical”* and be an iconoclast. I am not intending to propose an “affirmative action” program,– just attempting to show the conditions of ADHD and Asperger’s in full color, as opposed to black and white.

I am not saying that having mental or cognitive problems guarantees having creative genius. I do not dispute that such conditions make life difficult for the people who have them, for their loved ones, for co-workers, classmates, etc.

One is indeed fortunate to live a productive, creative life without afflictions, and society is indeed fortunate to have such unafflicted people. However, there are many paths to achieving productivity and multiple ways to view it. To quote that old public service announcement: “A good mind is a terrible thing to waste.”

Life is short; “cures” are elusive. Why sit around waiting …

To paraphrase Gregory Berns’ “first rule of iconoclasm,” – one SEES DIFFERENTLY.
Let’s re-examine our views …

*Find definition for “neuro typical” at

***
link for neuro typical did not post… try this www address: neuro-typical
then… (DOT)com/about

Regarding Glen’s question: The point isn’t really as much about predators as it is about an example of a group dynamic that has become hard-wired through evolution. Schooling behavior in fish (and flocking behavior in birds) occurs without a predator which serves to emphasize that patterns of conformity within the group exist even without external threats.

These patterns surround us and limit behavior to conform to an accepted ’spectrum’ of possibilities. This is mostly beneficial and serves society well, but it can also stiffle expression.

Having observed my own children in high school provides another example in which various affiliation groups (’cliques’; skaters, athletes, nerds, etc) resemble fish in their own schools. These groups form rather spontaneously and even if there is no active notion of exclusivity, these groups tend towards self-identification that ends up excluding others.

This analogy reminds me of a scene in ‘Rebel without a Cause’ where James Dean’s character is an outsider and independent of the influence of the acting gang leader and constitutes a threat that needs to be confronted. A member of the gang who see Dean as sympathetic is forced to ‘choose sides’ by the gang leader. Kind of the ‘you’re either with us…or against us’ mentality.

All this to say that we are heirs to evolutionary survival patterns that require group cohesion and these engrained patterns also create iconoclasts of those that act against the ’schools’ of conformity.

Bill, from newton

Hi! precautions prednisone

from a recent study in a top tier scientific journal: here’s some idea as to why were ‘compelled’ to “go along to get along” with the prevailing wisdom.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/15/social.conformity.brain/index.html

Recently one of my friends started an obsession with the actor Nicholas Cage (mostly because their names are both Nicholas – sounds strange but he is strange and that isn’t the point). After asking around the rest of my friends he seems to be a very controversial figure.
What does the forum think? do you love the all action superhero? Or do you hate the droning voice of the man who does nothing but action shooters?