McCain has got me fired up. Palin even more so.

To volunteer to work in a swing state to get Obama elected.

I know many who were undecided. Last night’s speech by Palin convinced them to vote Republican in this election!!! She did a fabulous job! And Obama’s paper-thin resume will now finally be generally known! Hah, the Democratic party has essentially nominated a “community organizer” – baaahhaahaa!

The Associated Press reported yesterday that Gov Palin, in a speech before ministry students, said that the Iraq war is a “task that is from God”, and that she would use Governor’s office to implement God’s will.

I wonder if Jesus would have voted for the Iraq war?

^^ at least she doesn’t speak as if she actually IS the messiah…like Obama seems to think he is.

A self-described evangelical called today and commented that Palin sounded “mean”. Some may also recall McCain’s so-called humor concerning Chelsea Clinton’s appearance. Sounds like McCain and Palin make a good pair.

WBUR, you might want to keep these threads closed until the actual show begins, and you also might want to consider (a) crowd-sourced ratings and (b) threading the threads in REVERSE chronological order so that there’s no permanent reward for posting first.

I’m really not jazzed about coming here to read talking points being spewed by people like “David Essing” nor his Obama-supporting counterparts. Also, it’s not like you can even prove that anyone really is who they say they are, either, so don’t trust that someone who says she’s a female swing-state resident isn’t a male party hack in Utah.

Gene,

Given the overwhelming disdain for Conservatives on these boards, do you really think “crowd-sourced” ratings would be fair? Really?

Thanks for referring to my opinions as “spewed…talking points.” I try to be as thoughtful as I can. I honestly hope no one here denigrates your contributions in such a manner.

Cheers, ~ david

David Essing, you see you just proved my points from the other threads.
Your here to be obnoxious which all the Republican party has this year.

I’m not a Democrat, I’m not a conservative. What I heard last night was a diatribe of nasty vindictiveness full of half truths and false accusations.

This is fine, it’s politics and she’s the new Dick Cheney.
The problem is that all the speakers last complained about
Washington and ‘big government’, problem is they have been in charge for the last 8 years. It seemed to me that the Republicans are running against themselves.

Obama has an big ego, wow that’s news.
Heres a news flash for you David, he’s running for president. I think it’s fair to say that 99.9% of the people who run in this arena have pretty huge egos.

Calling Obama names and saying things like “Democratic party has essentially nominated a “community organizer”
is just a typical conservative smoke screen.

The issues, it’s the issues that matter not that Obama comes across as if he is running for the Senate in Rome circa 10BC or if Palin is a hockey mom with a snowmobile loving husband who fishes for a living while welding bridges in his spare time, while looking after the children and cooking breakfast. I was not impressed that she got rid of the governors plane. Does this mean she will not be using Air Force 2?

This was all a diversion from the issues, and it seems to me that both parties are guilty of dragging this campaign down into this gutter.

Does Sarah Palin do the voice for the Mayor of South Park?

Mr. Essing,
The McCain camp took soundbites from the Hillary vs. Obama primary speeches and transformed them into misleading ads that falsely make it appear as if Obama spoke of himself like a messiah. I am taking issue with the fact that people you willingly believe this sort of tripe just because someone in your party cut and pasted it into existence. Please try to examine the candidate and his ACTUAL words and deeds… don’t simply accept the lies republican spinmeisters weave into fantasy campaign ads.

typical god’s own party speech filled with lies, hate, snarky jokes and condenscending remarks.

i am glad the ratings were so high. it is important that everyone see how god’s own party, with their strong father/govt rules your life mentality, is totally out of line with wind they create.

they call for smaller govt. and make it bigger then ever. they call for individual freedom and demand the federal govt regulate every aspect of your personal life, they call for strong national security and refuse to assist law enforcement with finding out how guns/bullets/shell casings arrive at crime scenes, they talk about transparency yet forbid their operatives from testifying before Congress, they talk of a new energy policy while fighting in the courts to keep the current policy secret, they support Israel but put up politicians who demand religious conversion, they love warrriors this cycle abused their records last time around.

what about immigration? what about the defecit?

god’s own party are supreme liers, but, this time the gov of Ohio is not the election stealing flunky as in 2004 and Florida’s Jews are certainly not going with a Jews for Jesus ticket.

I still thing Mccain will win as racism will account for just enough to get it done…..then I predict McCain will die within a year.

John,

I’m not taking any cues from Republican spinmeisters, or what have you. I have, in fact, carefully read and listened to Obama’s speeches. His language is distinctly messianic (and not merely reflecting a “big ego,” as another poster said.) If need be, and if it’s allowed on this forum, I will provide as many examples as you like. Fair enough?

John,

Sorry, one more thing I meant to say

I honestly cannot locate any actual “deeds” performed by Mr. Obama. I do think this is a problem for him. There is precious little he can actually point to wrt legislation or reform or whatever. He is NOT, in my opinion, a reformer, however much lip service he gives to this notion.

I wonder those who were fired up by Palin’s speech also watched Obama and Hillary’s speech. The styles are clearly night and day. Obama and Hillary showed lots of respect to McCain and acknowledged that despite the difference between than they all want to serve the country for the best. If there are complains that Obama sounded too angry, what would you say about last night’s speeches? There are too many personal attacks and accusation that’s just plainly not true. Fear is another tactic clearly used again. There was little substance in the speech about Republic’s plans for the country, other than that they will drill, and they will bring victory to the war in Iraq (under God’s light). It’s all about because McCain has certain characters and is a war hero, therefore he must be a great president. I still don’t know what Palin knows and stands on policy issues other than that she is a God fearing intense social conservative. She is not afraid to attack any opponent who stands in her way once she determines they are one of hers. It was disgusting and depressing to see the audience were cheering over “smart” name callings.

Yes, please show some examples where Obama is speaking in messianic terms where he is not simply using sarcasm against his detractors.

Sure, I’m not sure where to start there’s so much.

In general, it seems to me that he is employing a rhetoric that channels and amplifies the juvenile wish-fulfillment fantasies of his followers. I find it all very disturbing and creepy.

The cultural critic Henry Jenkins (MIT) has a piece about Obama’s language and how that language is connected with a “new politics” that is “transformative,” i.e., one that will recreate the world, transform it in accordance with HIS/OUR (whose?) vision of how the world should be. Professor Jenkins is a self-professed “Obama boy,” so you can’t blame me for pointing you to a right wing nutjob.

http://henryjenkins.org/2008/02/obama_and_the_we_generation.html

Here are some examples of the sort of language I mean:

___________

“This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

And:

“We are the ones we have been waiting for.”

And stuff like:

“Yes we can heal this nation.

Yes we can repair this world.

Yes we can.”

____________

All of this explains why there are so many people who can’t articulate why they support him – and yet, they feel drawn to him anyway, and speak vaguely as if he is going to save them, the world, and make the fish more numerous, et cetera.

Here’s some language expressing the cult-like response he has received :

“Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama.”

– Dinesh Sharma

“We just like to say his name. We are considering taking it as a mantra.”

– Chicago] Sun-Times

“A Lightworker — An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being”

– Mark Morford

“What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history”

– Jesse Jackson, Jr.

“Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?”

– Daily Kos

“He communicates God-like energy…”

– Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)

“Not just an ordinary human being but indeed an Advanced Soul”

– Commentator @ Chicago Sun Times

“I’ll do whatever he says to do. I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.”

– Halle Berry

“A quantum leap in American consciousness”

– Deepak Chopra

“He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century.”
– Gary Hart

“Barack Obama is our collective representation of our purest hopes, our highest visions and our deepest knowings . . . He’s our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence.”

– Eve Konstantine

“This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament.” | “I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.”

– Chris Matthews

“[Obama is ] creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom . . . [He is] the man for this time.”

– Toni Morrison

“Obama’s finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don’t even really inspire. They elevate. . . . He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh . . . Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves.”

– Ezra Klein

“Obama has the capacity to summon heroic forces from the spiritual depths of ordinary citizens and to unleash therefrom a symphonic chorus of unique creative acts whose common purpose is to tame the soul and alleviate the great challenges facing mankind.”

– Gerald Campbell

“We’re here to evolve to a higher plane . . . he is an evolved leader . . . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth.”

– Oprah Winfrey

“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan.”

– Bill Rush

COMMENTS ABOUT A SMART DO-GOODER TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

LET’S HEAR SOMETHING GOOD ABOUT MCCAIN.

I WON’T HOLD MY BREATH.

WILL A REAL REPUBLICAN PLEASE STAND UP AND ARTICULATE ONE CORE VALUE TO CHEW ON FOR A WHILE?

In general, it seems to me that he is employing a rhetoric that channels and amplifies the juvenile wish-fulfillment fantasies of his followers.

And how is that different from any other politician? Reagan famously said “My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes.”
- if that’s not juvenile wish fulfillment I don’t know what is!

“We are the ones we have been waiting for.”

Yes we can.”

How is this “messianic”? These are words used to inspire and give confidence.

Also, I’m not trying to accuse you of being a racist, but you seem remarkably unfamiliar with the rhetorical conventions of black churches, since this sort of language comes right out of that tradition. Martin Luther King was probably the greatest orator the US ever produced and this style of speech-giving is very similar.

Here’s some language expressing the cult-like response he has received :
. . .
[ fawning punditry deleted for brevity ]

But what’s the point of quoting other people’s reactions? Obama is not responsible for that. You specifically said “at least she doesn’t speak as if she actually IS the messiah…like Obama seems to think he is”
so I think you have an obligation to show us examples where Obama seems to think he’s the Messiah. We’re still waiting . . .

. . . really I was hoping for something a little more definite, like maybe when Obama didn’t know the mike was on and one of his staff asked if they should order out for pizza after the speech and he says (sorry, He says) “Don’t bother – I’ll just make some loaves and fishes fall out of the ceiling. And see that case of Poland Springs over there? How’d you like some nice Montepulciano d’Abruzzi?”

Or if a reporter asks about his healthcare plan and he says “Who needs a plan? I’ll just wave my hands over the sick people like this . . . ”

That sort of thing.

I agree that Jesus was an inspiring speaker who spoke in lofty positive terms, but not all lofty inspiring speakers think they’re Jesus. “Shining city on a hill”, anyone?

All politicians channel and amplify the juvenile wish-fulfillment fantasies of their followers? I strongly disagree. Reagan in your example was being humorous. Obama’s too pompous and self absorbed and self-important to be funny like that. As his followers keep saying, he’s something new and arresting “come upon our world” – and personally I find it creepy.

“This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

If you don’t see this ^^ (during his victory speech) as pointing towards what I’m talking about, I’m not sure what will. And no, it’s not a matter of quantity: if he said once “I am the Lord,” that would be enough, right?

Further, much of the language I mean is subtle and is dispersed among all his speeches. Try giving that link a look. There is much more. But I don’t really care to be your research assistant

And yes I think the responses of many of his followers – including many people I know personally – are due to to his creepy “we are going to transform the world” type language.

Finally, that sort of language isn’t inspiring. It’s frightening. He’s going to change our world? Repair it? Remake it? Bring harmony and peace? Etc. Who on earth does he think he is? Answer: the one we’ve been waiting for! Actually, his wife said so herself, directly.

Two more thoughts Peter:

1. I’m perfectly aware of the pedigree of Obama’s language. You might remember, however, that MLK was a baptist preacher – not a candidate for the most powerful office in the history of the world. And if you look at MLK’s language, it became increasingly messiah-like; and struck even some of his closest advisors as dangerously out of touch with pragmatic reality. See some of his later speeches for instance.

2. Hope does not come from Government. Nor does it come from leaders. The fact that Obama is offering it – and that his followers are looking for it, is something that we should all be concerned with.

Further, much of the language I mean is subtle and is dispersed among all his speeches. Try giving that link a look. There is much more. But I don’t really care to be your research assistant

That’s your M.O. isn’t it? Because we don’t share your personal, subjective, emotional reaction to something; because we don’t have the same little voices in our heads that you do, it’s up to us to substantiate your claims?

You made a very clear statement saying that Obama seems to think he’s the Messiah, and now you’re doing the same thing you accused the “liberals” of doing in another thread – saying it’s too subtle, complex, and yes, nuanced.

David, I think by now you’ve lost whatever credibility you came in here with.

LOL!

First, try reading the rest of my post Peter.

Second, there is not a single post on this or any other thread on this board that is “substantiated,” despite your self-congratulatory claims otherwise about your own posts.

Third, I’m not saying it’s “too complex and nuanced” – I’m pointing to his article because he says very well what I have myself observed about Obama’s speeches.

I provided examples, and that should be enough. It’s as much as anyone else provides on this board. Including thy holiness.

By the way, now that we’re mentioning other threads, you seem incredibly impressed and concerned with your credibility. Maybe rather than worrying about your credibility (on a forum! LOL!), you should get a real life?

I provided examples, and that should be enough. It’s as much as anyone else provides on this board.

David didn’t provide even one single example of where Obama gave any indication that he thought he was the Messiah. His examples fell into two categories:

1. Things that made him, personally, feel Obama was being messianic.

2. Comments by others who felt that way.

I don’t know if Mr Essing is a Christian conservative but I’ve run into this sort of “reasoning” WRT my own website, which is linked to below most of my posts.

My website features my paintings and photography and I especially enjoy portraying the female figure. Every so often I get email from religious zealots who opine that my work is “pornographic”. I ask them for a definition and they cannot provide one. I ask them for evidence and it’s much like Mr Essing’s – they know it when they see it, and they can cite others who have the same emotional reaction as they do, and that’s their idea of “evidence”.

I am shocked that so many voters are buying into Palin’s new look. I lived in Juneau (capitol) Alaska for the last 8 years. All of Southeast Alaska depends on the capitol of the state being in Juneau for jobs/economy. Palin has been doing everything she can to move the capitol to Anchorage (near Wasilla) or Wasilla (her home town).

All of Southeast Alaska totals about 80,000 people spread over a dozen or so small communities. As voters you need to ask yourself why would someone “fighting” for the little guy, small towns and against big government, do something that would literally kill the economies of small town Alaska? For the gain of her home town. Is this the type of person you want as VP of the US?

Look beyond the words, the smirk and the rhetoric. You will find a very different person other than the “Jim Henson” version you see on TV.

why would someone “fighting” for the little guy, small towns and against big government, do something that would literally kill the economies of small town Alaska? For the gain of her home town. Is this the type of person you want as VP of the US?

Hopefully someone will bring this to the attention of the DNC. I’m sure they’re building up quite a list of stuff to use when the RNC convention is over.

One big advantage Obama has is that he just went through a tough primary, and Biden has been through lots of campaigning, so there aren’t any big revelations about them the public doesn’t already know.

But Palin is fresh meat and she’s going to know how one of her moose feel by the time the press is done with her.

Don’t be so bizarre Peter. And btw, no one cares about your website; nor about more of your self importance. Wow, you portray nude women? And get this, PEOPLE ACTUALLY EMAIL HIM TOO!

What else am I supposed to provide but language that “that made [me], personally, feel [that] Obama was being messianic.”

What a tool you are! Let me point you to an example again:

“This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

Did you expect he was going to announce the fact that he believes himself to be a messiah? No. Of course not. Anyone who is sensitive to language can find it. It’s quite clear to me and many others. If the reader – or Peter – doesn’t agree, that’s just fine.

But I will say this: Peter, you’re not nearly as intelligent as you seem to think you are. You’re an amateur artist pretending to matter. LOL!

I am a middle-aged(if I live to be over 100!)female who habitually splits my ticket — voting for the person/team who best reflects my beliefs and/or who seems to have a viable plan that agrees with the objectives I think are important. Up until today I had been leaning toward McCain because I think his view of the international situation is closer to my own. HOWEVER, if Palin is a reflection of John McCain’s viewpoints (from abstinence only sex ed to gun control to tax policies), I may be voting Democratic in November!

It’s about time someone the grassroots Republicans realize that increasing taxes on those who make over $250,000/year or taxing estates worth over $1 million affects a very small percentage of those of us who put in long work weeks and often have second jobs!

… just wondering …
How many more times 9/11 will be ‘remembered’ before they bring the gavel down? .. and ..
Did anybody else NOT know John McCain is in-capable of raising his arms above his head BEFORE this convention?

Posted by rascalofearth, on September 4th, 2008 at 12:27 pm EDT
“I still thing Mccain will win as racism will account for just enough to get it done…..then I predict McCain will die within a year.”

Pretty frightening thing.
BTW, Which racism is it you speak of? Some sinister organized white supremisist effert to suppress the minority vote? Or just average IQ white people NOT voting Obama just because he is black (he’s actually of mixed race, but whatever)?
If the latter, I have to ask then, how is that any different from black people voting FOR Obama just because he is black (or, at least, blacker than McCain)?

Everyone talks about how historically high levels of female, black and hispanic voters could affect this election. And it certainly is great to see record numbers of Americans involved in the political process; but no one mentions how McCain/Palin might also drive greater numbers of certain normally dis-enchanted white voters (say..working class men)to the polls in large numbers who just may also vote along gender/racial lines.

It just so happens the inimitable Roger Kimball posted today an excellent piece about Obama’s personality cult….

______________

Two varieties of enthusiasm: the case of Palin vs. Obama

“In his great book Enthusiasm: A Chapter in the History of Religion, the British theologian, satirist, and mystery writer Ronald Knox notes that, “these days,” America “is the last refuge of the enthusiast,” i.e., one who is convinced of his personal possession by the divine….”

http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/

Hey folks!

It’s great to see so many Obama supporters out there!

There’s good reason: Obama is civil, smart, well educated, well travelled, civil (did I say that?), astute, well read, a great writer, civil (did I mention that?), good-hearted,
reasonable, patient, even-tempered (civil) and will make a fabulous president.

I lived out of the country for ten years (in Eastern Europe), most of those years under Bush, and watched our country’s standing plummet over there, due to our backwards, greedy, unilateral, aggressive, mean-spirited foreign policy. This election is about more than just US… in fact, our country’s future is about more than just us.

ANYHOW, dear Obama supporters,

I’d advise all those engaged in endless debate here with people who only want to antagonize to take their VERY precious energy and resources and get out to volunteer for the Obama campaign.

Hey people, let’s get to work!

Kate: Amen. Something as simple as a lawn sign goes a long way. Donating $5 at Obama’s site goes a long way. Wearing an Obama button, even in places where it might get you in trouble, goes a long way.

Arguing with conservative trolls does nothing except get us mad. Those arguments are endless and go nowhere. Avoid them.

I find it amazing that both McCain and Palin have framed this as a culture war to avoid having to defend the fact that both of them are aligned with the most unpopular President in history, George W. Bush.

In watching the Republican convention I was struck by how white, how rich, and how angry those people are. Isn’t it ironic that all of us who have suffered under George W. Bush are watching the very folks who elected him, twice, get angry at how we’ve made a mess of things. It’s true that the Democratic congress has sat on its hands the past few years thanks to Reid and Pelosi but that doesn’t undo what was done by Bush and the Republican congress the 4 years prior.

We must never let McCain and Palin cut ties with George. W. Bush who both of them supported and no doubt worked and voted for, twice.

“The Associated Press reported yesterday that Gov Palin, in a speech before ministry students, said that the Iraq war is a “task that is from God”, and that she would use Governor’s office to implement God’s will.”

We have enough trouble in the Middle East without our politicians starting a new Crusade.
It’s a medieval idea that shows how primitive Sarah Palin is. She is a zealot.

I hope she is told to scale that rhetoric back as it will inflame the 1 billion Muslim’s in the world.

David now you have given every person on this forum permission to take the gloves off. You are a troll as I have said before and these comments prove it without a doubt.

You have complained that you’re not being treated fairly. And yet here you are, yet again getting personal with someone. As soon as your taken to task you cry foul. Typical Republican, you can dish it out but you can’t take it.

I checked out Peter’s web site, so he takes photographs, big deal. I do think it’s risky having the link however as we can now see it is a way to use it for ridicule.

Are you a photographer? Do have a degree in art history or photography?

If not you don’t have the credentials to be an photography/art critic.

Both parties are pandering to the rich in a big way.
The Democrats are worse in that they come across as a party for working people and yet large donors where given VIP treatment.

We the people do not have any access.

Any journalist trying to get any near these private events were turned away and chased off of public streets.

At the convention in Minnesota a reporter from ABC was arrested and choked for standing outside of an event with his video crew.

Both parties are not for the majority of the people in this country. They pander to the rich and the corporate fat cats because they have no other choice.

I’m thinking of staying home as the late great George Carlin did. However if I do vote it will be for the Dems as they are the lesser evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u6lCBnRoHQ

BUSH WAS NOT A FAILURE!

The enterprise that was Bush, succeeded extraordinarily well in the process of wealth transfer from hard working Americans who earn less that 300 thousand per year, to those who represent the wealthiest tenth of one percent of Americans and many non-Americans. For example think Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

THE REPUBLICAN BRAND TOOK A HIT.

The incredulous should be incensed and the credulous will vote for McCain/Palin.

BUSH AND CO. TOOK THE LOOT.

YOU’VE BEEN HOODWINKED.

BAMBOOZLED!

STILL WAITING FOR SOME KIND REPUBLICAN TO STAN UP AND SAY:

I think you should vote Republican because……..(insert logical argument here)

Wow, just got through listening to this show. Man what a load of dung. The liberal forces were at work today trashing talking Palin because she has successfully shown their biases and lies they have been throwing around during this election. Tom Ashbrook is awfully difficult to dislike but I don’t see how he can justify such a one-sided show as this. There were no conservative or Republican voices to counter-balance the far left contributors he had on the show. And even in the one instance where he had a woman caller come on the line to support Ms Palin they would not let her finish her point, they ms-characterized what she was saying and never responded to the points she raised–although they said they would come back to them, they never did.

It’s difficult to think of Americans of the other party as evil but what to make of the mess they are making this election. I don’t know if it is the media, the Washington establishment or what but these Democrats and their media lap-dogs are below contempt.

They had the Republicans on the other day.
Please be more informed before you start hurling insults it makes you and all conservatives sound like winners.

“This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

David do you know what a metaphor is?

I read this and even though you have taken it out of context I don’t read this as messianic.

I think your mistaken about Obama being messianic and it seems more as a way to just use language paint him as ‘other’.

It’s clear David, you don’t like Obama, I get it.
The constant harking on this is counter productive.

By the way speaking of being messianic here are some chestnuts from Palin:

“Attending a pastors conference as governor, she told Riley and other Assemblies of God clergy that Alaska had been dedicated to the Lord—”and I know the Lord is not going to take it back.”

“I can do my job there in developing our natural resources and doing things like getting the roads paved and making sure our troopers have their cop cars and their uniforms and their guns, and making sure our public schools are funded,” she said in June to ministry students at her former church. “But really, all of that stuff doesn’t do any good if the people of Alaska’s heart isn’t right with God.”

Source:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-palin-religion_06sep06,0,3371419.story