Why can’t Israel/Palestine be just a secular state for every semites(arabs&jews)?Does the existence of a state requires some form of ethnic cleansing?Does someone’s right to exist implies someone else’s unworthiness to live?Was the formula to grant the jews an exclusive state of their own to settle, the right solution?Was Palestine a no-man’s land? Aren’t all the countries in the world multi-ethnic? Promise land given by “God”?
As long as those questions will not be addressed head on, without passions and religeous biases, war and violence will continue. There is no reasons why yesterday’s victims should become today’s righteous oppressors.The US and the mostly one-sided press are not helping, au contraire!I’ve heard more balanced commentaries comming from some Israeli’s newspapers than from the US media.Arabs and Jews in a secular and democratic state, with a comprehensive immigration policy is the only fair solution!…But who am i kidding!?
To all of you outhere,”agents of intolerance”(christian-rights, Jihadists,fundamentalists arabs, jews,christians)You deserve each-other!!!WE ARE ALL SHADES OF THE SAME DNA!!It’s time for some of you RETARDS to get with the program!You have already infiltrated this coming administration to protect the statu quo, but remember: not everybody in Israel is hawkish, neither in the arab world nor Tehran(believe it or not!)

WBUR Please stop the obvious bias of the BBC against Israel ..Why do you have such a news organization presenting news here in the US?..This is a affront to our intelligence ….Google : BBC Watch

It was obvious months ago that Israel would begin some sort of nonsense before Bush leaves office, as that would ensure US involvement and support.

If Israel waited to begin a murderous rampage after Obama takes office, the US response would be much less likely to be blindly pro-Israel.

Israel’s fascist bent is slowly eroding any outside support for Israel, and someday soon even Mossad plants in US government will not be able to push America into supporting Israeli murderers.

Ever since Gaza was completely evacuated , thousands of rockets have been raining into Israel , purposely targeting innocent women and children ….No one complained. After eight years of rockets Israel retaliates and everyone wakes up ….enough is enough

The Palestinians Pallywood productions propaganda machine is excellent and they will lie through their teeth with no shame examples are : the Al Durah hoax with the recent trial in Paris with “Philippe Karsenty ”,the modern Dreyfus affair was one of the excuses for the murder of Daniel pearl . Go to Youtube and see Pallywood and the Pierre Rehov documentaries .

Bobako, I agree 100%. Why does the US support theocracy and oppresion in Israel but not in Iran?

The only solution for the Israel problem is for ONE SECULAR state and the integration of the Palestinian population into mainstream society.

Let’s stop the oppression and violence.

there were more than 600 resolutions by the United Nation for the Palestinians but never one single resolution for the 1 million Jews kicked out of Arab countries ?all their possessions and properties stolen . There were more Jewish refugees living in tents in Israel than Palestinians …Why? could this be a bias from the United Nation? (a tiny country like Israel was able to intergrate them into their population )

Daffodil , where in the Arab world do you see a secular state ?

Diminishing Returns

1) United Nations “Partition Plan” to the Palestinians: You are going to have 47% of the 100% which was originally yours.

2) “Oslo Agreement” to the Palestinians: You are going to have 22% of the 100% which was originally yours.

3) Barak’s “Generous Offer” to the Palestinians: We are going to give you 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.

4) Sharon’s “Peace Plan” to the Palestinians in 2,000: We are going to give you 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours, and this 42% will remain under continuous curfew.

5) “American Zionists” to the Palestinians: According to our version of the Bible you are entitled to 0% of 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.

6) The “Road Map” to the Palestinians that Bush envisions:

§ If you stop your resistance to the occupation (which we call terrorism), and
§ your refugees give up their right of return to their ancestral homes, and
§ you agree to only elect officials acceptable to Bush and Israel, and
§ you agree to lock up all your resistance fighters, and
§ you agree to drive your cars only on roads that Sharon assigns for your use, and
§ you do not object to the ‘wall’ that Israel is building, and
§ you agree not to claim Jerusalem as your capital, and
§ you agree that your children’s school curriculum only includes courses and books approved by the Israeli government, and
§ you agree not to give birth to more than three children per family,

then “Israel” might consider “negotiating” with you on the 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.

(for those without calculators comes to 7.3% of the land which was originally yours. But the Palestenians have to move quick, don’t forget they are still building settlements as we speak, who knows what the next “generous offer” might be? Maybe we will bomb you until you are all dead?)

God bless the Palestinians! America and the world is behind you.

“God bless the Palestinians! America and the world is behind you.”

Huh?

Obama will have this whole situation resolved by the end of January. Hopefully no more will die as we wait.

On Point in particular and NPR in general are lone media voices in America! Once again most of America doesn’t hear the back-story. Once again media throughout the rest of the world deeply and broadly explain the utter subjugation by Israel of the Palestinians which creates the inevitably support of terrorist-leaning organizations such as Hamas; but must American media AND our government tell the Israeli half-story/half-truth: “Hamas is firing rockets, we’re responding.” Israel is an apartheid imperialist theocracy. Fundamentalists of all stripes destroy hope, freedom, and life.

I wish this land could be given to Palestinians. I wonder what they are going to do with it. Turn it right back into a desert, I bet. And their brothers arabs will be the first to repress them so they don’t rock their world. Unfortunately, giving it to them is not possible. They have to reconcile themselves with the existence of Israel at that locality. All that baloney about the land being “originally theirs” is not going to fly. So they either talk or fight. They choose to fight with all that goes with it. Israel has the right to defend itself. Take it anyway you want but don’t say that America is behind the Palestinians.

Hassan Jews where living in what is now Israel and the Middle East long before there was anything called Islam.

This is why this continues, the Arabs don’t want peace.
With all the land and money that the collective Arab and Iranians have, and after all the mandates and negotiations, I have to ask myself why has this not been resolved? Why do the Arab states consistently fail to help resolve this issue? One reason is they are afraid of Hamas and Hezbollah and what they represent. The other is tribal. Shia and Sunni can’t even get along with each other. They all fear Iran who is supporting both of these groups.

I think that Israel’s response is horrible there is no doubt about that.
I also think that Hamas wants this to happen. They constantly use innocent Palestinians as pawns in their anti Israeli agenda.

This is a mess, a huge mess with no solution. This will never be resolved as there will always be groups like Hamas.

If you want to think of yourself as a western style democracy, you don’t get to heinously settler occupy, ghettoize, etc, and entire population. What would you have the Palestinians do in this situation, die?

Majawill – where is President in all of this? Obama will certainly try when his time comes, while this useless boob we have now had better stay away from the problem alltogether. He just hurts when he gets involed.

Actually, I agree with Jeff. I think Hamas wants this to happen because then the attention of the whole world is upon them and the money keeps flowing. Otherwise, they would have to work and that is not as easy as demonstrating on the streets.

majawill is an anti-obama conservative (look back at his pre-election comments), so his comment was meant as a jab at Obama, not as a genuine hope for reconciliation.

Of course, Obama probably will find the best resolution to the current dilemma, so sorry majawill, better luck next time.

When it comes to this situation, like Clinton and Bush the Elder, the current President talks peace and turns the other cheek to oppression and loss of innocent life. You can’t be seen as an honest broker when you shill for one side.

We all await the second coming.

The question is how will this be resolved?
I see no end to this. The Palestinians are living in a tragic situation which does not seem to have any resolution.

Hamas won the election, which was more of a protest vote.
Now the Palestinian people have to deal with the what they voted for. Hamas wants to destroy Israel, period.

Until Hamas and Hezbollah recognize Israel there will be no two state solution. This is the only way to resolve this, a two state solution that with both states having equal water rights and so on.

Peace will only come to this area if all parties make some serious concessions.

I don’t think this will happen, as the extremist are in charge on both sides.

Why is no one here ranting about Egypt? Egypt has closed the border with Gaza as well.

Why aren’t the neighboring Arab countries taking in Palestinians and providing support through the Egyptian border?

From the Fatah Charter:

Article 2:
Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 15:
The liberation of Palestine…is a national duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist…against the Arab homeland, and aims at the liquidation of the Zionist presence in Palestine.

Article 19:
The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time.

HamasCharter, article 13:
The so-called peaceful solutions… to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad

Jeff – again I agree with you. However, being from the former Soviet Union and living through its downfall I remember all the squabbles over the land that immediately broke out all over the place there. Every side was claiming the original right to the disputed piece of territory and, of course, it only led to more blood. And unfortunately, you have no choice but to choose sides. Same is here. I don’t know who is right and who is wrong. I doubt anybody does. But my choice is clear to me.

Sam kopper , “apartheid imperialist theocracy “. Could you explain , or are you just repeating what others with “agendas” tell you ?

1) “Israel’s response in Gaza is disproportionate”

Since when is war a mathematical equation? The basic objective of any warring party is to inflict maximal damage on the enemy while minimizing its own casualties. Was there anything proportional about the US war in Iraq? Or about Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait for that matter? Or about Russia’s recent war against Georgia? Israel is doing exactly what any other country has done in the past. This is how war works.

Would a British citizen complain that “too few” British soldiers are being killed in Iraq? Probably not.

And on a more elementary note: Palestinian military inferiority is not an indication of moral superiority. Palestinian insistence on resorting to violence despite this military weakness is an indication of poor judgment perhaps – yet it is by no means an indication of moral virtue. Being militarily weak does not make the Palestinians right.

2) “But Qassams don’t kill”

Actually, Qassams do kill. Not too often, perhaps, but dozens of Israelis were killed and wounded by rocket fire in recent years. Moreover, at this time the Palestinians are firing long-range Grad rockets with even greater explosive power. Such rockets killed 2 Israelis Monday.

Yet beyond the casualty figures, the psychological damage caused as result of living under an ongoing rocket threat is immeasurable. Would anyone in the West agree to have their family live under constant rocket attacks and be regularly woken up by sirens in the middle of the night? Would anyone living under such conditions appreciate being told that “these rockets don’t kill?” Probably not.

3) “It’s all because of Israel’s siege. Israel should allow aid into Gaza.”

Israel has allowed goods into Gaza regularly throughout the “siege”. Palestinians have been able to complement these deliveries with supplies smuggled through hundreds of tunnels (of course, they would likely be able to bring in even more food had they not used the tunnels to smuggle in missiles.).

The day before operation “Cast Lead” got underway, Israel allowed dozens of trucks carrying aid to enter the Strip. On Tuesday, another 100 trucks – double the normal number –are expected to enter Gaza after Defense Minister Barak approved the move.

In short, Israel is allowing aid into the Strip (but guess who has kept Gaza crossings mostly closed thus far? That’s right, Egypt.)

4) “Why didn’t Israel just agree to renew the Gaza truce?”

First, what truce? Terror groups continued to fire rockets throughout the lull, even if somewhat infrequently, and even if the world didn’t seem to care too much. Nonetheless, Israel clearly declared that it is interested in extending the truce. Our top officials made it clear time and again.

Yet Hamas leaders clearly declared that the truce has ended on December 19th, and proceeded to bombard southern Israeli communities with dozens of rockets daily. In short, it is no wonder that even the Egyptians are blaming Hamas this time.

5) “But Hamas was elected democratically – why can’t Israel accept it?”

Although Hamas won the Palestinian elections, it took Gaza by force, in the process hurling rival Fatah members down to their death from high-rises and shooting others in the knees with the declared aim of maiming them. Some democracy.

In any case, Israel in fact “recognizes,” de facto, Hamas’ rule in Gaza, which is precisely why it is justified in attacking the Hamas-ruled Strip, recognizing that it is indeed being governed by a terror entity. Israel did not launch the operation because Hamas is in power there – rather, it did so because Hamas is a terrorist organization that has deliberately targeted civilians with thousands of rockets over the past 8 years.

6) “Israel is targeting civilians”

You mean to say that “one of the most powerful armies in the world” has been bombing Gaza for days, deploying massive air power, dropping hundreds of bombs, and ultimately killing a grand total of 50 civilians or so in the “most crowded place on earth?”

There are two options here: A) The Israeli army is not targeting civilians, or B) Israeli pilots suck. We tend to go with option A.

Indeed, Israel goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, by deploying precise ammunition and specialized techniques. In fact, nobody in the world does this better than the Jewish State.

Israel is a reality. The Fatah Charter can say whatever it wants to. The reality is that this kind of mind set is not going to help the Palestinian cause. The history of the world is filled with borders changing and winners and losers in geopolitics.

The only solution is a two state solution with enough financial backing for the Palestinians to become a healthy viable and productive country. This should come from all the Arab states with no strings attached.

Israel tries its best to protect its civilians .The question is why is Hamas fighting behind civilians? Isn’t that illegal ?(Why is the United Nation quiet on this ) And who is a civilian ? They seem to have a large army who can take off their uniforms when the opportunity is good for them . Israel has a right to protect its civilians …Its not Israel’s fault if Hamas is irresponsible toward its civilians .Their hatred of Israel is so great , they would rather kill themselves and their children in order to make Israel look bad …… We saw enough Pallywood in the so called Qana massacres (Youtube pallywood)…(Youtube : green helmet and Qana )…they have no shame ……conclusion they love “Martyrs” that way the world and especially the Arab world (have you seen the horribly bias Arab media ?), will go crazy against Israel . Where is all the money going that the rest of the world sends to the Palestinians ? Into the Swiss bank account of the leaders ?( just like Arafat’s wife who is still living it up like a queen in Paris .) Please stop the charade .

Petey. you are kidding ? “Israel’s fascist bent”. Please tell me what world are you living in ?………..BIZZARRO WORLD?….

I suggest you all watch “Road to Jenin” by Pierre Rehov you will see a completely different reality from what is given to you by the media ,( especially the BBC). You might be able to get it on “YouTube”. Hatred is a very Ugly thing…….

Bobako asks, “Why can’t Israel be just a secular state for every semites (Arabs and Jews)” Israel is by far the most secular, multi-ethnic, multi-racial nation in the Middle-East. There are 1.5 million Arabs who are full citizens living within Israel’s pre-1967 borders, far more than lived there in 1948. There are also Arab Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Iranian Jews, Indian Jews. Do most Jews want to maintain a majority Jewish population within Israel? Of course. Israel was created because of the suffering of Jews over the last two thousand years as a result of being persecuted minorities scattered around the world. Israel is the past, present and future refuge for Jews where they can speak their own language, practice their own religion, build their own culture and society. A Palestinian Arab can travel a few miles and be in various countries with their own language, culture and religion. Israeli Jews have no place else to go.

RM,
look up the word fascism and educate yourself, rather than sneer at someone more knowledgeable than you.

Depending on your dictionary, you’ll find something like:
“…forcible suppression of the opposition (e.g.- minority groups, unions, parties, etc.),belligerent nationalism and racism, glorification of war, etc.”

… sounds like modern Israel to me.

My poor dear Petey your arrogance doesn’t surprise me . You say :”rather than sneer at someone more knowledgeable than you”…… Who sounds ignorant here?

By the way, I did not say Israel is wholly fascist… specifically, I said “Israel’s fascist bent…”

From the partial definition I provided above, Israel certainly has something of a fascist bent.

Wait… you sneer at the use of a specific word without knowing the meaning of the word… isn’t that ignorance?

Hamas tries its best to protect its civilians .The question is why is Israel fighting behind civilians? Isn’t that illegal ?(Why is the United Nation quiet on this ) And who is a civilian ? They seem to have a large army who can take off their uniforms when the opportunity is good for them. Hamas has a right to protect its civilians …Its not Hamas’ fault if Israel is irresponsible toward its civilians .Their hatred of Hamas is so great , they would rather kill themselves and their children in order to make Hamas look bad ……

Interesting.

petey , I would say my understanding of English is pretty good being my third language ….

Majawill hamas protects its civilians? …that’s laughable …… They use them ….don’t make me laugh….

Just like Israel uses its civilians; but, because of mandatory military service, does it really have any?

Majawill …”but, because of mandatory military service, does it really have any?” What? can you clarify what you are saying?

Anyone who is seriously interested in understanding the Palestinian-Israeli conflict owes it to themselves and to everyone else to read the excellent historical fiction novel, [b][u]The Haj[/u][/b] by Leon Uris, which chronicles the tragic flight of a Palestinian family from their village during the founding of Israel.

Americans and Westerners should support Israel and its battle for secularism, reason, and the values of Western Civilization amidst a sea of primitive religious mysticism and barbarism.

Take your knowledge of Judiasm and the Jewish people and your knowledge of Islam and the Muslims and integrate it into a single coherent whole. You will discover that the relatively secular Jews (many of whom become atheists or agnostics) stand for science, reason, the concept of individual rights, peace, and the values of Western Civilization whereas the Islamic religion stands for primitive mysticism, Jihad, monarchy, government dictatorship, polygamy, suicide bombings, airplane bombings, the terrorist killings of innocent civilians, throwing acid on the faces of girls attending school in Afghanistan, and the subjugation of women. Which side would you rather support? Which side do you think is more likely to be the good guy and which side the bad guy? Which side do you think is more likely to be the aggressor?

The only reason why the Arab countries are not as impoverished and as backwards as African countries is the accidental good luck of having oil–which their culture would have never allowed them to discover on its own nor to discover any uses for nor any way to pump it out–beneath their feet. Otherwise the Middle East would be one huge Rwanda.

Israel is a small bastion of Western Civilization amongst a sea of Stone Age primitive barbaric mysticism and we should wholeheartedly support the Israelis, our true ideological and cultural allies.

All Israeli 18-year-old men are drafted for 3 years, women for 2. After which they melt into the civilian population but are still reserve military members serving 1-month a year.
“They seem to have a large army who can take off their uniforms when the opportunity is good for them.”

Most countries have a military service . are you saying babies, women, older people and civilians can be targets because they once had military service?

Apparently Israel thinks so.

Frank,
I agree in general with your take on Islam as compared to the west, but the truths you espouse don’t mean that people should be bombed out of existence or marginalized to the point of starvation.
I personally believe that religion is responsible for too much ignorance, hatred and strife in our world.
Still, the ways of the west have brought our species to the brink of exinction and out of balance with the natural world.
It may well be that in the not too distant future, those “backwards” peoples of the world will be the ones who do best, not having forgotten how to live simply and within the means of their environs. Wouldn’t it be ironic if those who missed out on the industrial and technological ages of man end up proving that tenet of Abrahamic traditions, “The meek shall inherit the Earth?”
I know some of Islam is very modern (some Islamic cities even more “modern” than those of the west), but the vast majority of muslims still eek out livings based upon what meager subsistence lifestyles provide.
In short, it’s difficult to say yet whose world view and culture will prove to be the more detrimental to the existence of man as a species on a small planet.

Majawill ,as anywhere in the world, Reserve soldiers wear their uniforms when on duty . They don’t hide behind / hold women and babies has hostages….there is no comparison

gee Frank Happy holidays too you to.
That’s a bit much and I’m Jewish and have relatives in Israel. Arab culture gave us algebra, calculus, astronomy hardly a stone age primitive culture. Then there is Persian culture. Not all the people in the Middle East are fundamentalist extremist bent on jihad. A lot of what is going on in some of the more oppressive countries is horrific, particularly the treatment of women. The lack of basic human rights and so on. This does not mean that we should be thinking as you do, it’s not very intelligent or rational, which seems to be part of your argument.

majawill , no you are saying so ….Those are the tactics of hamas ….Why don’t you condemn it?

Hamas is hiding in the midst of the civilian population. Cowards. Plus, they mostly target civilians. I don’t see them picking up wheapons and attacking military targets that much. As for the mandatory military service, lot’s of countries have it, as well they should. It is the duty of every citizen to defend one’s country. Every 18-year old in my old country goes to the military for 1.5 years. It used to be 2 years. We should have it here too. Young people will benefit from serving their country, while the leaders will think twice sending kids to war with no reason.

So is a Hamas soldier on-duty when he is having lunch in a restaurant on one of the busiest corners in Gaza at a time when the place is crowded with customers; not only other soldiers, but elderly, women and children? Is this a viable target?

Majawill you did not answer my question? don’t pretend you don’t understand ….why don’t you condemn the tactics of hamas targeting innocent civilians? (turning the question around is not going to work for me) ..

Hamas soldier is a terrorist in my book. His primary target is civilian population. Freedom figheters all over the world were fighting occupying military forces (such as in my old country of Belarus and elsewhere). Hamas does not qualify. As a terrorist he must be hunted down as a rabid dog and killed wherever he is. Unfortunately, he is hiding in the midst of civilians.

I condemn targeting of all innocent civilians. Please answer my questions.

Majawill if you make sense of your question, I will answer it….can you clarify what you are saying?

What if the Hamas soldier was pressed into service and has never taken another’s life?

@ RM So is a Hamas soldier on-duty when he is having lunch in a restaurant on one of the busiest corners in Gaza at a time when the place is crowded with customers; not only other soldiers, but elderly, women and children? Is this a viable target?

Majawill , please don’t evade my question ….your question makes no sense ….

He is out of luck.

majawill “What if the Hamas soldier was pressed into service and has never taken another’s life?”…What? please clarify …

Yes, it is a viable target in that in this case many of those “innocent” people are partially guilty for having harbored him and condoned him and for not having strung him up a long time ago.

Would you have advocated not bombing Japan and Germany during World War II because of the possibility of civilian casualties? If you don’t want to risk becoming a victim of collateral damage then don’t voluntarily or passively harbor terrorists and don’t condone and promote a culture that leads to your nation attacking another nation.

It’s 2pm on a Sunday and Barack is hungry.
He goes to a local pizza place.
Baracks’ day-job is fixing copiers, but he’s a Hamas member and has taken part in various civil disobediance acts targeting Israeli checkpoints. No violence, he’s never shot anyone or planted a bomb. He mostly has marched in demonstrations under orders from his Hamas army superiors. In fact, he wouldn’t have joined Hamas except for the peer pressure amongst his friends.

Now, it’s possible that there are other off-duty Hamas soldiers at that restaurant; both men and women. In fact, the place is crowded with families and people doing what all people do at pizza places.

Are this soldier and the others viable targets?

Would Israel be justified setting off a car-bomb outside the restaurant for the purpose of killing Barack and the other off-duty soldiers there, even though there is a high likelihood that “innocents” will perish? Does the fact that these soldiers are not active duty matter?

Israel does not set off car bombs outside restaurants. It is Hamas’ modus operandi. Hamas = terrorist. Next time you defend a terrorist in a court of law you can use these hypos. Perhaps they will impress the jury there if the court is held in London.

Israel is reality. Hamas are terror group. The conclusion is pretty clear to me.

I’m not sure about that, but, ok, a missile fired from an F-16 from 100 miles away.

Majawill I agree Israel doesn’t target civilians , hamas hides among them . Any hamas member with any pride (haha) would not hide among civilians and take them as hostages . What would you do ?

He’s not hiding, he’s having lunch.

It’s telling that Majawill wouldn’t directly address my question about whether it the United Stats was justified in bombing Japan and Germany during World War II even if it clearly meant that innocent and not-so-innocent civilians would be killed.

The best thing the Palestinian people could do for themselves would be purge themselves of Hamas and the Islamic Jihadists by hunting them down and stringing them all up. However, instead, they elected Hamas. When you take that into consideration it’s hard to feel all that much sympathy for them.

This conflict between Israel and Palestine will continue no matter who intervenes to stop it. This conflict has raged for centuries and will continue till the day the world ends. History: Abraham had two sons, Isaac,the son of the promise and Ishmael,the son who was not of the promise. Jealousy turned to hatred is at the core of this centuries old conflict. Isaac became the seed of Israel and Ishmael became the seed to the Arabs. Israel was promised the land and the Arabs were not. The Messiah would come through the line of Isaac and not through the line of Ishmael. Now you know why Israel has alot of enemies. The Messiah,Jesus Christ, came in order to breakdown the barriers of the past. Under the Law of Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Guess what? Neither party believes that Jesus came in the first century. Israel has a history and a book of beliefs so the Arabs need a book and a Messiah. They have Muhammand and the Korah, which they say is equally inspired. Enter Christianity, the old Law is replaced by the Law of Christ by Jesus. There is now no distinction of people,no favorites, only Christians made up of all people. Enter a recent new doctrinal belief. Jesus will return and set up His kingdom and the temple in Jerusalem and Israel will once again rise as a great nation. If this happens, Islam, Muhammand and the Korah is proven false and Israel is proven right. Isaac wins and Ishmael looses again. America who believes this doctrine must side with Israel in order to be on the right side when Jesus comes. The Muslims, to counteract this belief, build a Mosque where the temple needs to be rebuilt and divides the city in half. The whole problem is who is right and who is wrong. Whose belief is legic and whose is not. Neither are right in what they are doing. Killing innocent people to prove your belief is both condemned by Jewish and Muslim doctrines. Israel has the right to exist in this land, as well as do the Arabs. The conflict is ages old between the two peoples. Israel just wants to exist and live in this land and so do the Palestians. Yet, one side seems to just want to win the age old contest,even if it takes the annilation of Israel, a world conflict, or whatever. Give both sides the right to exist and when Jesus does come back, the problem will be solved. I hope this can be resolved by both sides, but hatred between siblings over a long period of time usually last till death.

Frank, US bombing of Japan and Germany was justified.

Now address my questions directly please.

majawill yes he is hiding and having lunch ..He must not care too much about civilians,if he works among them and knows he could be targeted .If someone was going to kill my baby and he was holding his own child hostage in his arms ….who would I choose to defend ,my baby or his baby ?….

can someone answer my questions?and one more:Can we talk peace and continue to built settelments?

Can you have a truce yet continue to send rockets ?

From a Hamas soldier’s perspective, he is equally justified to target Israeli soldiers (active or reserve/ uniformed or not) and, if there is collateral damage, that is an unfortunate consequence of war.

Israeli soldiers must not care too much about civilians,if they work among them and know they could be targeted.

The best thing the Israeli people could do for themselves would be purge themselves of Likud and the Zionists by hunting them down and stringing them all up. However, instead, they are likely to elect Likud. When you take that into consideration it’s hard to feel all that much sympathy for them.

To Israelis, if you don’t want to risk becoming a victim of collateral damage then don’t voluntarily or passively harbor terrorists and don’t condone and promote a culture that leads to your nation attacking another nation, whether it has a state or not.

Hamas soldier may think what he will. As long as he continues blowing up pizza parlors and dicsoteques he will be deemed a terrorist and hunted down and killed. Simple as that. Hypotheticals are nice for these kinds of message boards and may even be useful. Ultimately, though, we all have to take our sides. Hamas is a terror group. As long as my vote counts in this country I am voting to support Israel. You can choose your side in accordance with your values.

In the mindset of both the Israeli solder and the Hamas militiaman they both think they are doing the right thing in context to their beliefs, and alliances.

On the program today some callers mentioned Canada in relation to Israel and the Palestinians.
I think the border between Mexico and the US is a better analogy. The area around Tijuana is pretty lawless at the moment. People are killed on both sides of the border in the drug trade. No rockets are being fired, but there is plenty of violence.

Majawill .. What is Hamas complaining about isn’t death what they want , death and their 72 virgins? They always say they love death more than life …So I guess they are getting what they want ….

Most persecutions of the jews in history,happenned in the western world(Spain,Italy,Germany, Poland, France, Russia ect,,,)some arab and persian kingdoms gave them protection…The us(jews,western values(?)ect…)agaisnt them(arabs,savages, backwards ect…)is an over-simplication of a more complex history.The Europeans gave to their victims,as a sort of reparation, a land that in all fairness, wasn’t theirs to give and was not a no-man’s land.That’s the main cause of this conflit!

Well, Europeans, especially British, created a lot of conflict situations around middle east and Asia. So now what? Just simply unwind it? Yeah, right. Tell it to India and Pakistan while you are at it. It does not work that way and it is not going to happen. And the question of who was there first is totally futile. I submit that Jews were there about 3,400 years ago. When did arabs get there? So give me a break with that baloney. Let them go sue Great Britain for that.

Bobako that’s B..S…If you don’t know what you are talking about , don’t say anything …..

suggest you all read “From Time Immemorial ” by Joan Peters . the origins of the Arab Jewish conflict …..Jews were never well treated in Arab countries even though they had been the original inhabitants …..Lets stop that myth …they were just tolerated .By the way 1/3 of jews in Palestine were jewish …….

“Can someone answer my questions?” Bobako, see my posting 12/31 1:01 PM.

I think that the bottom line is that Israel’s reaction to Hamas and the faction that is firing the rockets was not warranted. In context to the reaction and how the rest of the world views the situation it seems to me that Israels bombing of Gaza has done more harm to Israel than to Hamas.

They should have shown more restraint in this situation.
Gaza is to densely populated to have these kinds of air strikes. You can’t do it without killing to many innocent civilians.

The rocket attacks have been going on for months and while they were an annoyance they hardly did a lot of damage or killed anyone. In Israel there have been 3 deaths, this justifies over 300 hundred Palestinian deaths? All this does is play right into the hands of the extremest factions within Hamas and the Arab nations as well as Iran. The other issue is that Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni is going to be running for Prime Minister in the upcoming elections, this is also a political act her part.

I think if somebody fired rockets at USA or Russia they would be obliterated immediately and without regard to proportionality of response. I think this is clear from recent history. I agree that Israel’s response plays “right into the hands of the extremest factions within Hamas and the Arab nations as well as Iran.” The rockets were a provocation pure and simple. Hamas has grabbed all the control over Gaza after chasing away the corrupt money-loving Fatah. Now they are responsible. However, governing is not what they are after. They need Israel to respond this way to keep the world’s attention upon themselves so money keeps flowing into their coffers. Enough is enough.

Sorry Alex, but the US did not flatten of Afghanistan, not that it would take much. In fact our response after the 9/11 seemed rather tame in when compared to what we did in Iraq.

Russia would do what they did in Chechnya, invade and use air power to flatten as much of the country as possible.

Israel does not have this option, it’s surrounded by hostile and semi-hostile countries.

The US has not invaded Mexico, and yet everyday there is a lot of drug related gang violence at the border and it is spreading across to the US side.

Getting back to Hamas they win whatever happens. They look like victims and they strive on the environment of chaos that is currently what Gaza is.

According to polls, most Israeli citizens do not approve of how their government handles the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Palestinian militias and the Israeli government have alot in common-an inability to settle problems without violence, intolerance of other religons, and the murdering of civilians in an effort to gain territory. Israel violates human rights and the Geneva convention and their aggressiveness is ineffective. Ok a Palestinian conspiracy? What are you smoking!! How are the Palestinians affording a buyoff of the US media? The reality is more like this: Israel is an imperialist country and Palestinians have nowhere to go and no money to go there with.
The retalliation isn’t WORKING so why do it? Why not TRY actual peace and not apartheid, which the whole world knows is happening now-that’s why US leaders don’t get into the specifics with how gung ho for Israel they are. Is the BBC biased against the inhumane government of the Sudan too?
If you raise a child in Jerusalem and have the means to leave you are a bad parent because you are putting your own pride above your kid’s life. Its like the parable of Jesus cutting the baby in half-I am horrified that modern Jews are putting their children in physical danger by living in such a violent country. Move to the country-but you aren’t proving a thing by displacing someone else after you were displaced.

liz It must be deep in your imagination that you find your polls ..Where have you been ? The Palestinians and their propaganda are well known …I suggest you watch on YouTube “Pallywood ” and also “ROAD TO JENIN” BY PIERRE REHOV , the money is well funded by rich Arab countries , Its funny that you mention the Geneva convention ,no one seems to mention it , when Palestinians are sending rockets or suicide bombers into Israel to kill innocent women and children ..Palestinians have been sending thousands of rockets into Israel for eight years , terrorizing innocents people and deliberately targeting schools . Where were all the voices for the poor Israeli children .. when Israel finally retaliates the whole world goes crazy ….as I said …its BIZARRO WORLD …….What are you talking about” imperialist “which organization has brainwashed you? …… Have you seen the size of Israel? its a drop of water in the sea of Arab countries . What are you talking apartheid ? The wall was built to protect against the suicide bombing …I think anyone else would do the same …what are you talking BBC and Sudan ?Israel and Jewish organizations are the ones who have had the loudest voice against Sudan ….I suggest you google and read “BBC watch” so you can understand what BIAS is …..anyway ……Do some homework ……Don’t just repeat what you hear …….

Go Israel. Sometimes you just have to kill the virus to get over the illness. I don’t like to see children get killed, but it happens in war. And as far as I see it they are just Terrorist in Training. Israel would not fire one bullet at any Palestinians if they weren’t shooting rockets at them. Are there any planes flying over the West Bank? When Israelies left their settlements and give the Terrorist their own state did the violence stop? They should be bombed into the sea.
So Israel should not stop until their Hamas no longer exists by whatever means they see fit. If you can’t stomach it don’t watch the news, bad things happen, you might get upset.

So much for Israeli targeting!
Today they killed 20 children and 4 of their own soldiers.
Who are they kidding? Genocide isn’t pretty.

20 future terrorist

@Big Jon —- “20 future terrorist”

If you think twice, you wouldn’t make such a statement. You started to sound like the people you don’t agree with.

Hatred started to nourish when you generalize your enemies as all of them are not “living things”, even including the innocents, who are assumed guilty before they even have a chance to grow up.

Are you saying just wipe them all off the map including all unborn?

Personally I don’t think we have evolved a lot away from other mammal’s instinct We act just like them instinctively! Except we got a little “fancier” so called “civilization”.

To respond to another poster earlier, don’t count on westerners to save the world after all the damage they have left from China all the way to Africa from as early as 16th and 17th centuries.

Same as U.S. government. Condones or condemns, all evolve around its own benefits, not others. Why did U.S. condemned Russia air bombed Georgia, but not Isreal? (I am not choosing sides, but just to make a point only)

Right now, the new war is “OIL”. See how civilized the western nations will remain. Civilization sometimes is just a facade, it looks pretty and nice externally, but internally we are all driven by the same motive — survival!!

United States will pick a few enemies every few decades to remain its compatibility on the world stage.

If we call ourselves “Human Beings”, I don’t think we can live up to it yet!

sure Majawill , as if we did not know the Arab lies and propaganda …..They make great fictional movies in Gaza …That’s why its call PALLYWOOD …..

Hamas, elected by Gazans, ran on a position that includes the annihilation of Israel. Iran and Syria supply money and weapoons. Egypt tacitly allows these to come over their border. Hamas sends rockets, with increasing range, over the border daily bombing civilian Israeli targets. Is the issue that Israel has more fire power and is better funded so it should “ignore” that its neighbor on its border is attacking its civilians daily? After all, they aren’t doing a lot of damage yet. What country would ignore this behavior? Is the issue that the response should be “proportional?” You kill four civilians so I get to kill four civilians? I get to fire weak rockets the same distance into your civilian territories? Would the world support an Israeli response that was “proportional?” Don’t be ridiculous. Of course not.
Hamas puts its weapons in hospitals, schools and mosques and its soldiers in ambulances. Its soldiers live among civilians and do not defend them but in fact make every single civilian an involuntary soldier and a target. That gives them maximum physical protection (they are cowards and hide behind their women and children) and maximum propaganda protection: Israelis are killing civilians.
I have no idea what the solution is. Israel exists and if Hamas wishes to destroy Israel it should come as no surprise that the country won’t willingly commit suicide.

Rachel, I would prefer to live in peace with everyone, but sometimes it is kill or be killed. The same liberals that are weeping for the death of the palestinians are Pro abortion which kills more kids in this country than the Israelis ever could.
But make no mistake if there weren’t lunatics trying to kill the innocent I would prefer peace at all cost.

Israel has created a concentration camp and its name is Gaza. Ironic.

Sorry Big Jon . but the Abortion debate is another issue and I don’t want to get into a dscussion with which I am equally passionate …All I can say is if you don’t want an abortion , don’t have one ……..

Big Jon,

Pro-Abortion doesn’t mean to “promote” abortion, but to have a personal choice. And they don’t impose their belief on the disagreed. But the “Pro-Life” do.

Pro-Life doesn’t mean to “protect” all life either, only the “unborn”, how about those living persons suffering from just “being born”, no mercy for these people? Even those innocent kids were unfortunately born in a unsettling world, should they all be killed under the assault of their opponent country?

Don’t you think your view of valuing “life” is kind of prejudice?

Correction to my previous comment about “Pro-Abortion”.

I meant to write “Pro-Choice”, that should be the correct term, not “Pro-Abortion”.

can you stop using long words please

its not 5:18 its 10:18 now

With a heavy heart just finished listening to another lost soul who has convinced himself that the brutal murder of thousands of civilians in Gaza over the last 20 years is justified. His reasoning his son has been brainwashed into thinking he is fighting a holy war. His sons risk is minimal during the current conflict he had a greater chance of being killed by friendly fire than by Hamas. Another convert for the forces of evil in this world.

i just want to say that the jews hate arabs. they said the best arab for them is a dead arab.
this is what happened in palestine.
what would you do if you wellcomed someone in your house then they decided to kick you out your own house. you would fight back wont you. thats exactly what israel did to palestine. it all started after the second world war. no one wanted the jews to stay in their country so the decided to give them there own land. the had a choice of lots of other places like antartica but there was some problems. then they decided to go to palestine. the palestine people wellcomed them in nicly and gave them food and shelter. then the israel people kicked them out their own homes. if they wouldnt go out they would kill them. after thet they took all their land and gave palestine gaza and the west bank. the isreal people are also planning to take over gaza and the west bank. the israel people kill children and they know there killing children. they bomed lots of school and make up islly exuses. they say they didnt know it was a school but they know exactly where there bombing. israel have all the latest wepons from america while the only way palestine can defend themselves is by making there own weopons. palastine only killed 14 or less israel people while israel killed thousands. there was so much bombing from israel that they killed two of their own soilders. go on youtube and type in gaza and look at all the children. they have been injured and killed. there is much worse things israel have done to palestine.what are palestine supposed to do, just sit there and watch israel killing them and trying to take over their country. well no they have to fight back.israel are trying to wipe out the whole of palestine and i 100% know that they will never wipe out palestine and if you dont belive me just wait and see. go on youtube and type in we will not go down (song for gaza) by (micheal heart) and watch it. please just watch it and see whats happening in gaza. please just watch. its such a sad song. i was crying.
the israel people are using illeagle weopons.
One rocket was fired out of Gaza. ONE. And who knows who fired it?
So Israel launches OVER THREE HUNDRED rockets in response?
the palestine people want peace and their land back. but israel wont give it to them back.
look at all the palestine people now. they are being killed. even right now. they are mostly killing children and women. israel have been doing this for 60 years. just go on youtube and type in we will not go down gaza and youll see how they suffer ech and every day. the jews have stopped food and medicine from going into gaza. they wont let any reporters go into gaza.i wonder why.its baecause they dont want them to see what tere doing to gaza.the jews are doing what hitler did to them in the second world war but even worse. shoudnt they not do the same to palestine because they know how it feels. they know they shoudnt do that but there cold hearted people. hitler said that he didnt want to kill all the jews because he wanted to show the world how mean the jews are.

An Arab-Made Misery.

by Nonie Darwish

International donors pledged almost $4.5 billion in aid for Gaza earlier this month. It has been very painful for me to witness over the past few years the deteriorating humanitarian situation in that narrow strip where I lived as a child in the 1950s.

The media tend to attribute Gaza’s decline solely to Israeli military and economic actions against Hamas. But such a myopic analysis ignores the problem’s root cause: 60 years of Arab policy aimed at cementing the Palestinian people’s status as stateless refugees in order to use their suffering as a weapon against Israel.

As a child in Gaza in the 1950s, I experienced the early results of this policy. Egypt, which then controlled the territory, conducted guerrilla-style operations against Israel from Gaza. My father commanded these operations, carried out by Palestinian fedayeen, Arabic for “self-sacrifice.” Back then, Gaza was already the front line of the Arab jihad against Israel. My father was assassinated by Israeli forces in 1956.

It was in those years that the Arab League started its Palestinian refugee policy. Arab countries implemented special laws designed to make it impossible to integrate the Palestinian refugees from the 1948 Arab war against Israel. Even descendants of Palestinian refugees who are born in another Arab country and live there their entire lives can never gain that country’s passport. Even if they marry a citizen of an Arab country, they cannot become citizens of their spouse’s country. They must remain “Palestinian” even though they may have never set foot in the West Bank or Gaza.

This policy of forcing a Palestinian identity on these people for eternity and condemning them to a miserable life in a refugee camp was designed to perpetuate and exacerbate the Palestinian refugee crisis.

So was the Arab policy of overpopulating Gaza. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, whose main political support comes from Arab countries, encourages high birth rates by rewarding families with many children. Yasser Arafat said the Palestinian woman’s womb was his best weapon.

Arab countries always push for classifying as many Palestinians as possible as “refugees.” As a result, about one-third of the Palestinians in Gaza still live in refugee camps. For 60 years, Palestinians have been used and abused by Arab regimes and Palestinian terrorists in their fight against Israel.

Now it is Hamas, an Islamist terror organization supported by Iran, which is using and abusing Palestinians for this purpose. While Hamas leaders hid in the well-stocked bunkers and tunnels they prepared before they provoked Israel into attacking them, Palestinian civilians were exposed and caught in the deadly crossfire between Hamas and Israeli soldiers.

As a result of 60 years of this Arab policy, Gaza has become a prison camp for 1.5 million Palestinians. Both Israel and Egypt are fearful of terrorist infiltration from Gaza — all the more so since Hamas took over — and have always maintained tight controls over their borders with Gaza. The Palestinians continue to endure hardships because Gaza continues to serve as the launching pad for terror attacks against Israeli citizens. Those attacks come in the form of Hamas missiles that indiscriminately target Israeli kindergartens, homes and businesses.

And Hamas continued these attacks more than two years after Israel withdrew from Gaza in the hope that this step would begin the process of building a Palestinian state, eventually leading to a peaceful, two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There was no “cycle of violence” then, no justification for anything other than peace and prosperity. But instead, Hamas chose Islamic jihad. Gazans’ and Israelis’ hopes have been met with misery for Palestinians and missiles for Israelis.

Hamas, an Iran proxy, has become a danger not only to Israel, but also to Palestinians as well as to neighboring Arab states, who fear the spread of radical Islam could destabilize their countries.

Arabs claim they love the Palestinian people, but they seem more interested in sacrificing them. If they really loved their Palestinian brethren, they’d pressure Hamas to stop firing missiles at Israel. In the longer term, the Arab world must end the Palestinians’ refugee status and thereby their desire to harm Israel. It’s time for the 22 Arab countries to open their borders and absorb the Palestinians of Gaza who wish to start a new life. It is time for the Arab world to truly help the Palestinians, not use them.

Mrs. Darwish, who grew up in Gaza City and Cairo, is the author, most recently, of “Cruel and Usual Punishment,” (Thomas Nelson, 2009).

Copyright – Original materials copyright (c) by the authors.