I think the Republican’s political strategy is now obvious, though devious and very self-serving. The logic is very sound, but completely indifferent to the welfare of Americans.

Republican leadership presided over getting us into an economic mess and a foreign policy mess, both of which are so screwed up that they are perhaps impossible dilemmas to solve.

The only thing Dems can do is to try what most experts say are the “least bad” alternatives.

FOLLOW THIS LOGIC:

Now that Dems are in power, if any policy goes right Dems will get positive credit, regardless of whether or not Republicans supported their efforts.

The chances are, however, that extricating America from the mess won’t be so easy.

Since Republicans don’t gain from a positive outcome, their best bet is on a negative outcome.

To this end, Republicans serve themselves well by bad-mouthing anything Democrats try to do, while at the same time being obstructionist and making every effort to sabotage carefully considered legislation.

If, and more likely when, things don’t seem to turn around so easily, Republicans can crow about how awful things are, and how Dems are so ineffective. They will go on and on about how THEY could have fixed everything, ignoring, of course, the fact that their leadership presided over getting us into every mess in the first place.

America doesn’t need such self-serving cowardice from Republicans! They should step up to the plate and participate in doing everything they can to help do what is right for America. For once, put political gamesmanship aside and show some integrity in public service!

One more thing:

Bush presided over a near doubling of the National Debt, from 5.7 trillion to well over 10 trillion dollars by the time he left office.

Bush also took a budgetary surplus and turned it into a yearly deficit of a trillion dollars!

I don’t recall Republicans making a big stink about how they (the Republican Congress) and Bush were dumping all of this debt onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.

Now, all of a sudden… when our country actually can possibly benefit from some government spending, less than one trillion is horribly immoral to Republican’s sensibilities! This is absolutely disgusting!

Where was Republican “morality” when their “Chosen One” added 5 trillion to the debt and increased the deficit by a trillion a year????!!!!

Those figures don’t even include the real long-term costs of the Iraq fiasco and the interest we will pay on all of that debt!

But noooooo, now suddenly Republicans are fiscal saints!

Really, I don’t know how these Republican “public servants” sleep at night! Oh, wait a minute… perhaps a complete “lack of morality” would allow them to snooze away! Well, where’s a good knock-out pill when you really need one?

Listen for how Republicans can’t bear to put any debt onto the backs of our children and grandchildren… they’ve been saying it all week! What unbelievable and unforgivable hypocrites!

Yeah, it is cute. Republicans worried about the children.

Perhaps the states represented by all of those “caring” public servants in Congress who do not support helping the American people try to survive the economic meltdown facilitated by these same “caring” public servants should turn down the funds since they are such a bad deal.

They are the party of “me first” I think they should change from using the elephant to the ostrich as they seem to have the tendency to put their heads in the sand or in other unmentionable places.

Well they are trying to save their children…

Finally we’ve got an opposition party that’s doing something. In their 3 years out of power, they’ve accomplished more than the Democrats ever did in their 12. Ask yoursleves why. In fact, in their 3 years of control of Congress, they’ve managed to orchestrate the destruction of the economy. Nice work.

The only meaningful bipartisanship was in opposition to the stimulus. I fault Obama for not walking the talk. He barely could get himself to look at his appointee’s tax statements much less the stimulus plan.

The stimulus plan is a joke. Only $150 billion of the $800 goes to infrastructure despite all the talk. The $54 bln in state aid barely cuts in half next year’s expected shortfall. The tax breaks won’t change behavior because they don’t change rates, they provide $400 which is essentially a repeat of last year’s failed rebate. Tax breaks for housing and auto buying are tiny and uninspiring. Temporary relief from the AMT comes and fails every year. Extending jobless benefits so people can buy food, pay rent and utility bills is another example of policy (not necessarily bad) but it doesn’t do anything to end the recession.

I’m glad someone is keeping track, but this list can’t be complete.

“Here’s the change Obama’s brought so far

He’s violated his executive order on lobbyists three times (in two weeks).
He’s keeping extraordinary rendition.
He’s making census-taking blatently political by putting Emanuel in charge of it.
He’s given up on bipartisanship.
He had barely any input into the stimulus plan (he’s not a detail guy).
He can’t be bothered to do enough due diligence on his appointees to know (or care) if they pay their taxes (there’s his ethics, then everyone else’s).
He’s all show, but there’s no there there. We waited through the transition and since the inauguration for the Treasury’s non-plan plan. They must have been busy preparing their tax returns from three years ago.”

Question: Could someone say more about the interesting Abramoff connections to Gregg’s office, including recent disclosures about one of his aides and the possiblility that some of Gregg’s votes were directed by an Abramoff-linked Boulanger? Is Gregg aware that he’s on the edge of a big public problem and thereby backing out of the public eye?

Petey, I could not have said it better myself. I have been a lifelong independent, voting for Republicans, Democrats and Independent candidates based on my own values and beliefs. However, given the ghastly mess the current crop of Retro-publlicans and their dear, departed (thank God) leader (no, not Rush … we’ll have to keep hearing spew from the Chickenhawk doper, methinks) have bequeathed to the Obama Administration, and their insistent obstinacy in wanting to drive the country farther into the abyss for the sake of their “principles,” I will never vote for another R again. Never. Not for dog catcher. Not for garbage collector. When I look at the state of this country today after eight years of the worst administration ever, I will never trust them again.

I strain under the objections to spending. I ask, which would be better for the economy:

1a: Federal Government incurs debt,
1b: gives money to people,
1c: people spend money on private needs,
1d: no common needs met,
2a: Federal Government incurs debt,
2b: pays people to work (spends money),
2c: People spend money on private needs,
2d: Common needs are met through work they do.

Is there something I am missing? Do I give money to my neighbor just to improve his economy? Do I not do us both more good by getting his services in exchange for my money? Then I have improvements to my house AND he has money to spend.

We all know how much the common needs have been neglected under the tax-break-as-stimulus regimen!

Congressional members clearly demonstrated they know nothing about the lending business in the US. Jamie Dimon had to lecture these idiots like a first grade teacher. I fear a world where the government is running the banks like Jack would suggest. Has he been to the DMV recently?

The markets rejected Treasury’s plan because it had no substance whatsoever to it.

Nice of Tom to include a quote from the administration that painted Stiglitz as ignorant. Ouch Jack, that’s gotta hurt!

HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM

Tom Ashbrook and Guests and callers call our current Sec of Treasury as “Geithner” or “Timothy Geithner”.

I have heard almost all of the Wall Street top Insiders, including all of the Weasels sitting at the table during the congressional hearing, calling Giethner as “Tim”. They have been enjoying parties and playing Golf in the past. They are each other’s “friends”; not mine, not yours.

Timothy Giethner has to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That’s where Republicans belong. In opposition. If they are productive being an opposition party so much the better. We get double benefit. Just don’t let them back to power please. Three biggest crises of the last 100 years occurred after two or more successive Republican administrations (i.e. late twenties, late eighties-early nineties, late 2000s). Oh yeah, let’s blame Barney Frank who spent much of the 1990s and 2000s in the minority and give a complete pass to Gingrich, Delay, Frist, Hastert and a buffoun like George Bush.

I’m waiting for the apology from the Republican crime familiy . . .

Cheney to Treasury: “Deficits don’t matter”

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill was told “deficits don’t matter” when he warned of a looming fiscal crisis.
O’Neill, fired in a shakeup of Bush’s economic team in December 2002, raised objections to a new round of tax cuts and said the president balked at his more aggressive plan to combat corporate crime after a string of accounting scandals because of opposition from “the corporate crowd,” a key constituency.
O’Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: “We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due.” A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired.

Bingo, Jeffe. As far as I am concerned, the opinions and criticisms of those who supported the Architects of Chaos who ran this country off a cliff over the last eight years should be treated as so much background noise, as the current administration goes about the serious, grown-up business of trying to right the ship. Alas, my fear is that the damage done is so great that nothing is going to work, which of course means Obama, who has been in office less than a month, will get the hell for the mess that the Chickenhawks bequeathed to him.

Tom,
Please find someone with knowledge and experience in the Canadian banking system to talk about the elements that make that system the highest quality in the world. The Canadian federal chartering of major banks, with all the controls that the federal charter system imposes, keeps the Canadian banks more honest, also very profitable, and gives nationwide banking without the barriers found in USA.
Obama could and should have hedgefunds outlawed, establish a set of a few federally chartered and regulated banks in the USA and carry out a complete banking housecleaning. Remember Andy Jackson and the Biddle affair. Well, those firms now sucking the life from the USA economy are no different from the 2nd National Bank confronting Jackson
Isn’t it time for President Obama to be firm and less like Bambi. It is time to stop being Mr. nice guy and “let’s be reasonable”! These are not reasonable people and do not deserve to be given the benefit of reasonableness.

people if u have not realize this yet but Majawill, statments are foolish and constantly proven wrong be mutiple commentors, and blogers.

if u sit on your hands while your house is burning as like the repubs would like us to do your house burns down,

nice if you got the money to get another but most dont that why we need to do something to limit the damage to the house.i.e. stim bill

I think the republicans would like to bring back debtors prisons if they could, private ones at that.

Though not by you mike, unless you’d like to give a go now. I’m waiting. And if you can’t, show me where someone else did.

Did I mention the use of state’s secret privilege used by the Obama administration this week? The more things “change,” the more they stay the same. How dare they?! Obama criticized Bush for his use of the same privilege and now he’s doing it. Talk about hypocrisy.

Someone posted some of Majawill’s “brilliant” past comments, with reference dates, earlier today. They were worth a good laugh. I guess the webmaster thought the post was too harsh and took it down. Either that or Majawill has a buddy working the WBUR server. He’s certainly not the brightest bulb in the house, but he does have a right to his opinion.

Regarding Majawill’s opinion, “On the Media” started this week with a segment on the “State’s Secret” privilege story. It really puts the use of the privilege by Obama into proper perspective, making Majawill’s comparison of Obama to Bush laughable. Turns out the case is a continuation of a Bush case where Bush lawyers had already invoked the “State’s Secret” privilege. The story points out that Obama lawyers simply may not have had adequate time to review the case yet, or there’s even the possibility that the case really involves secrets that could harm national security if released. The story also points out that in the fifty years before Bush, the privilege had been invoked by U.S. presidents only 55 times, but Bush alone used the dodge 39 times. Then the story points out that the privilege is unlikely to be invoked again any time soon… I suppose that’s because Obama isn’t likely to get into near the number of ridiculous shenanigans that Bush seemed to make a habit. Some of Majawill’s other comparison’s of Obama to Bush are equally ludicrous, but I’ll leave those determinations to the intelligence of readers and their ability to do a little web searching. Cheers!

I’m glad to see Gregg go. He is like a bad apple in a fresh bucket of apples. It is absolutely amazing that the last eight years of devastation to our economy are now “forgotten” while so many of the media pundits want to say Obama is “failing.” I say CALL THEIR BLUFFS!! Keep illuminating the illegal actions of the Bush administration. We cannot forget IRAQ!!!! How much money is that still costing us???

I just heard christia mention that some banking executives still feel they are worth $5M/yr. I can’t blame them. I’m worth at least that much considering my 14hr days 5 days/week. Unfortunately my career in sustainable development and renewable energy can’t quite afford my net worth. Shall we all be bankers? I have no doubt that I could run numbers as well as our $5M friend.

Dangerous times are coming. The monster called big government has been let out of the cage. He will grow and get fat and even larger than before. He will have and enormous appetite for money and power. The public will enjoy his growling and boasting of protecting their interests. When he consumes all that he can he will eventually comsume us. This monster called big government will need to be fed. He loves money and we will feed him our tax dollars for years to come. We will blame everyone but ourselves for the creation of this monster. Our founding fathers left England to get away from a monster. We love monsters, we will sacrifice even our children and grand children to this monster. We want the monster to take care of our every little desire. I hope the Democrats annilate the Republican party to where there is only one party left in America, the Democrats. The plans to do this is already in motion. Then after this monster has evolved into an even bigger monster, we can still blame the republicans. The Democrats can do no wrong! I am ready for socialism, semi-socialism are maybe a dictator.

Nancy, same challenge to you that I gave to mike. If you can find something incorrect, challenge it.

Perspective from OTM, now that’s laughable. I don’t think Bob and Brooke have ever put anything in proper perspective, only their own. It’s an opinion show, Bob and Brooke’s, and they seem to align with your own probably.

Again, the fact you cannot deny is that Obama criticized Bush for state’s secrets invocations and then turns around and does it himself. Hardly laughable. What is laughable is the generosity you offer regarding the administration’s motivations. Not enough time and they’ll never use it again…. Please, maybe governing in a time of unconventional war requires a different set of tools. Obama just picked up one from his predecessor, probably won’t be the last. Oh, that’s right, Obama’s up for a little extraordinary rendition also. What do Bob and Brooke have to say about that?

Enlighten me with your brilliance Nancy.

Whoa. Big government is coming. I am so-o-o-o scared.

Well, Obama will be hard pressed to make government any bigger than Bush and the Republicans made it.

After they brought down the entire world economy, I don’t thimk there’s enough money left on the planet for a government THAT BIG to exist ever again.

And thanks to Bush, we already know what it’s like to live under socialism (corporate) AND a dictator.

To all the Elephants outer, Bipartisanship doesn’t mean 50/50!Let’s all remember who won the elections. Your suggestions are welcomed, discussed, but at the end of the day people voted for our agenda to be implemented…you had your turn and you were not as gracious…”nuclear option”remember??

You’re no longer elephants, as far as i’m concerned, you guys are hypos which stands for “Hypocrites”

“The one thing we learned from history is that we don’t learn from history.” Winston Churchill. I am neither Dem nor Rep, I am an American that just happens to be a conservative. My conservative mindset has served me well, both in good times and bad. Americans are pons in a chess game played by people who only need us for our money and our vote. Power corrupts and no party is immune to its lure. Americans have lost their values. We are programed by the media and politics on, how to think, how to dress, what to eat, what is right, what is wrong and the list goes on. We have thrown God in the waste basket and that is our biggest mistake.
“For even though they knew God, they did not honor him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.” You can deny that God exist and that I am a right wing fool; but history will prove the truth. God raises up nations and He brings nations down. Look at history, all the so-called great nations and Empires are gone! We are next, will we continue on their path or will we just repeat history once again. If we dishonor God, He will react! The agenda that has been voted in has already proven to be one that will continue to keep God in the waste basket. Big mistake!

Dear God,
why do you hate Bush so much that you would dump America into the toilet during his tenure as president?

Why would you so favor terrorists after Bush took office, and then put us on the losing side of war and then destroy our cities with hurricanes and floods and fires and then make our economy tank completely?

I thought the most reverent of us electted Bush because he was your Chosen One.

Is Bush gay or something God?

Listen to the Lincoln show from Thursday. After failing to draw some plausible parallels between Lincoln and Obama, the commentators go on to show (unintentionally, of course) how similar were the challenges to and the governing styles of President Lincoln and President George Bush.

k, majawil lets look at the opinion about the stim bill

Finally we’ve got an opposition party that’s doing something. In their 3 years out of power,
Majawill.

okay so what have they done to better our country as the minority party, obstruct a bill trying to help the economy,the people,the world, make obscene tax cut statements.(except those 3 repubs in the senate who realize the importance of the bill i have to give them credit in the senate) and i bet u dont agree with those 3 repubs that have done so.

In fact, in their 3 years of control of Congress, they’ve managed to orchestrate the destruction of the economy. Nice work.
Majawill

these statement intentionally leaves out the policies (unpaid and vastly wasted but approved by repubs u know the ones who are fiscally conservative now) from the previous 5 years. as for the dems anything places out there was threaten or veto by bush(would u agree kind of hard to pass things when someone vetos it?)

also the recession started when credit started to freeze up and people who where only surviving on credit and home equity could not anymore,

(as this mentality was pushed as a good thing to have debt and everything would keep going up indefinitely), which this recession would have happen way before the dems got in office, but prolonged to 3 years ago by the use of debt and credit until it was frozen.

The only meaningful bipartisanship was in opposition to the stimulus. I fault Obama for not walking the talk.
Majawill

k,obama mistake was to put 30 percent in tax cuts in it, instead of puting none and letting the house repub place them in and feel victorious. but the house repubs voted no for it not for some moral ground(grand kids and such) is false since they double the debt and had not once stated this when they were in power. but need some type of polictical move so that the big spending repubican for all of 2000 had some revolution and are back……(really).

Majawill can u explain how additional tax cuts over 600billion if the senate repubs had it there way, would help people who lost they jobs? or cutting the corporate tax to 12 from 35, u do know that any big corporation never pays 35 percent through loop holes along with taxes cuts by the u.s. government to locate there companies overseas.

The stimulus plan is a joke. Only $150 billion of the $800 goes to infrastructure despite all the talk. The $54 bln in state aid barely cuts in half next year’s expected shortfall. The tax breaks won’t change behavior because they don’t change rates, they provide $400 which is essentially a repeat of last year’s failed rebate. Tax breaks for housing and auto buying are tiny and uninspiring. Temporary relief from the AMT comes and fails every year. Extending jobless benefits so people can buy food, pay rent and utility bills is another example of policy (not necessarily bad) but it doesn’t do anything to end the recession.

Majawill

so whats your point we need more in the bill? or are u stating we do nothing and wish for the best, cut taxes while where still in 2 wars, crumbing infrastructure and the same with the school systems, tax cuts dont work to well when u loss your job, along with the more people who loses they jobs, creates less spending creating more lay offs.

i hear alot of complaining from u but no answers, apathy is not going to solve the problems and though repubs act as though they dont want it to pass, they need it as much of any dems but wish to run against it as a political tool in the near future and scared as heck if it works which would mean a major blow to there party,(hench the spin over and over again on whats in it)

u will not receive a response after this since your obliviously to whats going on

There is one thing about the stimulus plan that is very disturbing. It seems to me that the banks are getting what they want, and in some way are still calling the shots.
They should be nationalized and all share holders take the hit. All the executives should be fired.

There is not enough going into the middle class area at all. There is a problem with the Geithner plan, it is completely giving way to much to the banks, which is discussed on the Democracy Now web site:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/13/robert_kuttner_and_michael_hudson_on

The new stimulus bill being railroaded through congress is 1500 pages long, with very complex language. No politicial has had time to read the entire bill. Would you sit down at a table and sign a contract and not read it before you signed it. Many of our leaders did! This bill contains + or – 200 new government programs on top of the ones we already have. Where is the money going to come from when the stimulus money runs out. The suckers in the balcony of course! In a town hall meeting in Florida, a woman spoke with the impression that Obama would make it possible for her to have a new kitchen sink. Expectations are high. I hope Obama can deliver. All I know is that the tab will be put on mine and your table before this is all over. Get ready to pay the piper.

I’m not sure whether or not this stimulus is worth doing. Lately I’m leaning towards believing the thing’s a bad idea. Much of American business, the legislation affecting it, and the American way of life seems so backward, and maybe a complete overhaul of everything is in order. The trick is how to minimize the true suffering. I believe most should be brought to earth in terms of living standards, but many already fallen or low stand to lose their dignity or worse.
The amount of money that’s being tendered for this whole mess, some two trillion altogether (not including interest), could instead help the destitute for the decade or so it might take for reality to sort everything out. The rest of us could maybe rough it, so to speak. I think perhaps it’s a bad idea to preserve such a screwed up and anachronistic status quo, and we might all be better off in the long run if things are allowed to take a sort of brutal course of natural selection. It’s likely sufficient money that a few other real necessities might also be funded or better funded; education, mass transit, and green technology.
Since crime and poverty are the biggest threats we would face from letting commerce sort itself out naturally, and since high gas prices will surely return soon, funding for the destitute, education, and mass transit would be paramount… funding for green technology is just a good idea and would help temper the environmental impact of cost-cutting measures that would result from a compromised economy.
This idea might have saved us from civil unrest and too much suffering, while perhaps saving several hundred billion as well… too late now of course, as the course was already set long ago by Bush and an all too accommodating Congress.

The “two trillion,” just to be clear, refers to the stimulus and all bail out money.
I think Republicans have shown such air-tight unity in opposition to the stimulus that they obviously could have reined in the three rogue senators if they had really wanted to.
Most certainly this proves they wanted to have the stimulus bill pass, but pass almost exclusively as a democratic measure, thus playing for political advantage as per the logic in the first post of this thread.

yea jeffe, i surprise that democracy Now is not widely known, they had a scuffle in the rnc convention that lady got arrested there a video about it on there too.

the census issue is crap being pushed by foxes news last week least what i seen before J. Greg stated, i too think we should nationalize the banks in need break them up so there not to big to fail and fired the top management and board of directors as well. I thought we learn that monopolies are illegal and should not be and why is State Street bank getting money, there a investment bank and holder bank and do not lean to people.

If this works i would say and hope others agree, that when or if these banks start making insane amounts of money in the future we should taxes the crap out of them, and when they say hey were the master of the universe, we can say we saved u from that comet that threaten to bring u down so pay up like we had to, and no more private profit, pubic debt no bank or company should feel as if they can risk and risk and think that the government would left them fail,

Interesting program this week. I continue to be dismayed that the focus of the guests (and of comments on this board, in fact) are devoted toward criticizing the opposition. If it is, in fact, the job of the media to “speak truth to power,” and if “progressives” are concerned about things such as transparency and oversight, then we really need to be a bit more willing to look more closely at what those in power are doing.

There are legitimate concerns about the stimulus–e.g., How much of the money is going to non-efficient pork? How much is lack of oversight going to harm the effectiveness of this bill (and create further problems of corruption)? What of the allegations that some of the money is being funneled to Democratic-leaning “community organizations?” How much was “stimulus” spending, and how much was just spending on programs Democrats have wanted for years? To what extent is Obama guilty of using (and exacerbating) fear to push his agenda?

These are all legitimate questions, and they deserve thorough vetting. All received no, or just passing, coverage in this program’s coverage of the stimulus. Instead, the vast majority of the program on the stimulus was devoted to discussing Republican opposition, which had zero impact on whether the bill got passed or not.

Finally, if Obama wants a culture of bipartisanship, he should put his political capital where his mouth is. The stimulus package offered no real concessions to Republicans (tax cuts, let’s be honest, were something Obama had to do, given his campaign promises), and Obama’s rhetoric consistently painted Republicans as opposed to doing anything, rather than as opposed to his particular bill. I’m consistently amazed that so many smart people simply take whatever our president says as the gospel truth. I’ll believe that Obama wants to govern like Lincoln when I actually see it.

The tax cuts my wife and I will get will amount to about $800. This is a waste of money. I don’t need it, and if I did the amount is so small that it does nothing to help.

This is absurd and the stupidity behind this political BS is scary to me. It says that both parties do not know what they are doing.

The only politician that seems to have his head on straight is Bernie Sanders the senator from Vermont.
He thinks that if a bank is to big to fail then it’s most likely to big of a bank and should be broken up.

I would make every officer of every bank that is taking our money to take wage freezes and absolutely no bonuses
and all the top brass should be fired or made to step down. They created this mess, they were supposed to the smart people who knew how to be prudent bankers. It seems they are not.

I am please the President was able to get the amount of money he requested, I hope he use some of that money to help the people who lost their houses during the Hurricane also for those who younger people who are receive benefit let them work before for they money they are making and for those who are commiting crimes send them to build road and bridges, cultivate land with food and cattle farming no more sitting down and receiving hard working Tax payers money.