A line of job applicants snakes through a ropeline to attend the CUNY Big Apple Job Fair on Friday, March 20, 2009 in New York. (AP)
Americans keep losing their jobs — 650,000 jobs lost in February. And the months of cuts have gone on and on.
That is a lot of people who have had to scramble. Start over. Grab on to whatever they could find to put food on the table. Race for “Plan B.”
It’s hard. It’s scary. Millions are doing it. How’s it going? We’ve all heard the story of the hedge fund guy delivering pizza. This hour we’ll talk with Americans who have made their scramble. Plunged into their own Plan B.
We want to know from them, from you, how it’s working out. This hour, On Point: Living Plan B.
-Tom Ashbrook
Guests:
Joining us from Los Angeles is Freddy Carillo. Until five months ago he worked in finance at a car dealership during the day and with his father as a contractor at night. The car dealership folded and his father’s business slowed. Three months ago he joined the California Conservation Corps, doing emergency clean-up, and he now wants to pursue a career in search-and-rescue. He is 24 years old and lives with his girlfriend.
From Detroit, Michigan, we’re joined by Maria Weaver. She was a vehicle automotive designer at a German automotive supplier until last August. She started nursing school this fall and is half-way into a 16-month program. She hopes to be a surgical nurse in Detroit, where there is a severe nursing shortage. She is 40 years old and single.
And from Mankato, Minnesota, is Steve Druschel. He was an environmental engineer in private practice in Lawrence, Mass., until November 2008, when the work dried up. He had finished his doctorate at the University of New Hampshire in May 2007. In January he accepted a position at Minnesota State University in Mankato. He is 48 years old. His wife will join him in Minnesota at the end of the semester. His son, now a junior in high school, will stay behind with friends in New Hampshire.
Good choice of Guests – except these wonderful people are indirect and unlucky people who are affected by the Mortgage Crisis.
Can OnPoing bring people (again) where were cheated and lied to by Mortgage Originators (ie. CountryWide and other Red Zoning Crooks) who have lost their homes and life savings and have nowhere to go.
On a different note: Economy is Recovering. Golman Sachs is buying iShares and investing loads of money on ICBC. Insiders will be making a killing soon with their Preffered Shares and Warrants; and before you know it, they will be passing the wealth on to us. Stay tight.
Posted by Lilya Lopekha, on March 25th, 2009 at 8:33 am EDTInteresting topic & choice of guests. They are probably not representative of most who are unemployed and/or suffering during the current downturn. Furthering education or career changes are great ideas, but not always practical choices for many struggling w/ survival.
Posted by Pete Atkinson, on March 25th, 2009 at 8:53 am EDTTo Lilya Lopekha:
—————
Thanks to OnPoint, who caters intellectual and smart people like you, where they are just one step behind or almost at the step or are already contributing anything +ive to the society.
Secondly, Im a big fan of OnPoint and its hosts (Ashbrook/Clayson) as it really feeds my brain with the stuff that is purely helpful to overall growth of my personality and my role as a good citizen.
Thank You!!
Posted by Wilson Samuel, on March 25th, 2009 at 9:00 am EDTGreat show. I would hope that people would begin to develop a portfolio of skills or retrain themselves for a different career from a standpoint of being proactive and looking ahead rather than from a position of fear or desperation. This should be started before a layoff.
Also, it’s important to note that your Plan B may be someone else’s Plan A. So there has to be constant renewal and learning. Dan Pink’s “A Whole New Mind” should be required reading. Beware putting all your hopes into careers that can be automated or outsourced. If you do the latter, understand that your competition may not just be people in your town; it’s people in Bangalore with your skillset who will work longer and for half.
People who will do best when the economy turns around are the ones who buckle down and start building or improving skills/services that will be in demand.
Posted by Doshi, on March 25th, 2009 at 9:34 am EDTThank you Wilson Samuel
You are right, there is millions of voiceless people out there. They went down not because of lack of education or bad luck or illness.
They went down because they were defrauded. Estimated that about 2,000,000 deceptive and fraudulent mortgage contracts were written during the last 5 years and only 30-40 people were convicted.
Countrywide’s CEO Angelo Mozilo: $500 million
Ameriquest’s CEO Lee Wayne: $350 million
Argent Mortgage and 20 or so systematically corrupt/criminal institutions.
These are crimes folks. Criminals are living in their mansions and victims are shelter doors with their tears:
Posted by Lilya Lopekha, on March 25th, 2009 at 9:45 am EDThttp://www.fbi.gov/publications/fraud/mortgage_fraud06.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/financial/fcs_report2006/financial_crime_2006.htm
Thanks for a great show! It’s great to see that you have a young guest on your show as well. While it certainly is difficult to change careers after 20 years, for young people starting out, the future is grim.
True we (I’m a 24 year old college grad piecing together 3 jobs after serving in AmeriCorps national service for a year) do not necessarily have mortgages and families to support, standing out in a sea of applicants for entry level non-profit jobs (who are older and wiser with more degrees than me) makes it impossible for find something.
I am lucky I don’t have a house or children to support… but moving around, chasing work, isn’t easy either.
Posted by Joanna, on March 25th, 2009 at 9:48 am EDTExcellent show as usual. To Tom’s point that this recession is about geography…. For regular working people, life has always been about geography! In 1950 my mother moved to Massachusetts from Northern Maine to get work as did many of her siblings. My father and many of his siblings moved from Georgia to Massachusetts for manufacturing jobs. In 1975, I graduated with a Master’s degree in psychology and there were NO jobs in my profession in Massachusetts at that time (PhD’s were taking minimum wage jobs at Drug Hotlines answering phones!), so I moved to Florida where I got a job in my field and could afford to support myself! You gotta do what you gotta do!
Posted by Wanda Hendrix, on March 25th, 2009 at 9:51 am EDTI am impressed by how many people seem to be going back to school in hope of making themselves better competitors in the job market. So many of your callers were down (as we all are) but not out, and had the just keep going and we’ll get there mindset. What a good collective spirit.
Posted by Camille Diaz, on March 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am EDTWhat was not discussed is the fact that our manufacturing base is gone. That workers have lost all but lost the right to collective bargaining. There is no national health care so if you lose your job you lose your health insurance. We do not have any semblance of a living wage in this country.
However that’s not to say that people flipping burgers should make $15 per hour. That would be silly. But, this is the problem, people are trying to support families on $6, $7 and $8 per hour. You can’t make it on that at all. The average rent of a single room anywhere in this country is about $600 per month or more plus the bills. In Boston it’s about $1200 a month for an apartment.
Posted by jeffe, on March 25th, 2009 at 12:20 pm EDTExcept that going back to school for doing computer work is not a good idea as most of it is outsourced now to India and China. People should think long and hard about the field they want to go into. Health care and government are good bets. If your under 35 you could think about the military, especially if you have a degree in engineering or any college degree for that matter.
Posted by jeffe, on March 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pm EDT[...] it’s after twelve, and I must be off. I do have a bit of an excuse, as I was a caller on WBUR’s On Point program and had to be on hold for a while. Tomorrow, though, I’ll be resetting my broken sleep [...]
Posted by Resolved: I Will Leave the Arena of the Unwell by Resetting My Broken Sleep Clock « Sassy Sundry Thoughts, on March 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm EDTI went back to school after divorce, not due to THIS economy. But, my State is often in a recession. I already had a master’s degree, which made me UNemployable (employers did NOT want to pay me a higher starting salary). I got a large scholarship for an entry-level master’s degree in a health field – where we were told the jobs were & would be for a long time to come. FIRST, I had to do TWO years worth of pre-requisites at the local community college. Has anyone taken Physiology or Chemistry lately, especially if you are NOT gifted with a science-minded brain?? They are BOTH so hard, that I was advised to take ONLY the one class the semester I took these classes. The advisers were correct about that, but it prolonged the pre-requisite period.
Just as I completed the last pre-requisite, I found out I had breast cancer and had to stop schooling entirely for ONE whole year due to radiation AND the college’s schedule. Once I finally started the program, my short-term memory had been affected by the anti-cancer medications I had to take. The only schools with programs in my selected field required commutes of two hours EACH way — while lugging books and looseleafs. I was a single mother, sharing parenting half-time with my former husband, but parenting nevertheless. I could NOT keep up with the program and dropped out before my grade-point average could count and affect any future schooling (I had obtained a 4-pt, i.e. straight A, average with my very difficult pre-requisites. To go from that to being on my way to flunking out was DIFFICULT).
Instead of returning to my old field (in the arts), I decided to go for an ASSOCIATES DEGREE at the local community college in ANOTHER field within the health field so that my pre-requisites would not be a WASTE. That involved yet one MORE pre-requisite course because I had already done so many (but, read that as adding another WHOLE semester!), AND it also included waiting to be called off the WAITING LIST for that major. The course of study was extremely hard: sometimes four or five of us in study groups would NOT be able to figure out how a certain something worked. Nevertheless we all graduated. From my FIRST pre-requisite to my GRADUATION with an associate’s degree SEVEN years had gone by. During that time, my father, mother and brother — all living TWELVE states away — got fatal illnesses. I had to keep working part-time jobs: they were the ONLY jobs that allowed me the flexibility to switch my schedule with almost EVERY semester change; they were the only jobs where, once I BORROWED money from my ill family members, I could go visit them; help them move; find nursing homes for them (VERY, VERY HARD; especially when the diagnosis of Alzheimer’s disease already exists). I thought I was doing the very best parenting job in spite of the circumstances; yet, midway thru all this schooling, we found out a school professional had been sexually molesting our daughter for four and a half years. I am NOT making this up!!!
So: I ADMIRE completely the people who go back to school, BUT I do NOT admire the society that makes it this hard for people to do so. My MAIN SUGGESTION IS THIS: COMMUNITY COLLEGES ARE GREAT, BUT THEY NEED TO BE DESIGNED AS COOPERATIVE COLLEGES; i.e., you take a semester of classes, followed by a semester of paid work in YOUR field in a job the school helped you find by being in cooperation with local businesses. THIS IS BASICALLY A COMMUNITY-WIDE FACILITATION OF THE EDUCATION AND RE-TRAINING PROCESSES. This is asking a LOT, but it HAS to happen! So many WOMEN, especially, are taking care of children while simultaneously taking care of their elderly parents, while working for needed income. Going back to school with these other responsibilities already on your schedule is VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFICULT. I do NOT know if my breast cancer returned because it was going to anyway, or because I had WAY too little sleep during those seven years of school — many, many nights I only had four hours of sleep! Some scientists think lack of sleep and breast cancer might be related. I don’t know. All I do know, is that after graduation with our associates’ degrees, we had to pass a grueling Licensing Test. Most of us did. But, while we were in our last year of school, Medicare regulations changed, and so, with licenses in hand, instead of EVERY ONE in class getting a job, only ONE person got a job in our new field for about one and a half years after graduation!!!! I DO NOT WRITE THIS TO BE DISCOURAGING. I WRITE IT HOPING THAT PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH POWER TO CHANGE THE SET-UP OF COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN PARTICULAR WILL SEE THIS AND RECOGNIZE MY GOOD SUGGESTION, above. With my cancer back again in Stage Four, I have chosen to focus on several other projects for my last amount of time left, but I did want to BROADCAST a realistic assessment of what it CAN be like to go back to school, and to make my SUGGESTION ABOUT A COOPERATIVE COLLEGE MODEL. Thank you (especially if you read all the way to the end!)
Posted by Christine W., on March 25th, 2009 at 12:58 pm EDTI first felt the pinch of the economic downturn in 2003, as a recent college graduate who studied in the field of Textile Design and had worked in an upholstery fabric manufacturer as an intern in the design department for the last two years of college. With the then recent passing of NAFTA, the textile industry in this country was the first to make a mass exodus overseas. Within six months of receiving my degree I found myself unemployed and without enough experience to move on in the already extremely competitive job market for Textile Designers. Inevitably the only job I could find was doing freelance work for a company that did not pay very well for their “in-house” contract workers, and I had to start waiting tables on the side just to pay my rent. After a few months of working 90+hours a week, and a short stay in the hospital for stress related illness, I decided that I was making more money waiting tables and gave up the freelance job for what I thought would be a short term. It has now been six years since receiving my degree and I’ve all but given up on the prospect of resuming my career as a Textile designer and serving food has become my main source of income. However the restaurant industry is now hurting as well and I’m barely scraping by. I tried to go back to school last year to become an Interior Designer, hoping to venture back into a creative field, but I was shocked to find that I qualified for very little financial aid and would have to take out a personal loan for the additional 60k at a very high interest rate, plus would need a co-signer which I don’t have. I think that something has to be done to cancel NAFTA and bringing manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.
Posted by Christina L., on March 25th, 2009 at 1:53 pm EDTI believe the the sub-prime mortgage crisis is a direct result of people losing their good-paying jobs to NAFTA and no longer being able to afford their mortgages.
I think that if the government took back the bank bailout money and invested in bringing good-paying jobs back to this country we could be out of this mess in no time.
I am just one of MILLIONS of Americans who has seen their dreams, careers, and futures go down the drain because of the free-trade agreements made at the end of the Clinton Administration.
I’ve had many “back-up” plans over the last few years, but they all inevitably lead to my unhappiness and further dwindling hope of ever fulfilling my dreams.
I really feel for those that have lost jobs or businesses. Wyoming has been quite healthy and still growing. As I close in on retirement and want to sell my successful Lodge, I encourage people in depressed areas to think about relocating to economically healthy parts of the country.
Posted by ray duvall, on March 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pm EDTI agree with Christina L. (March 25, 1:53 p.m., above) about NAFTA. In fact, her experience suggests that my idea above (March 25, 12:58 p.m.) about Community Colleges including a Cooperative component MIGHT NOT WORK, or might not work long enough for people to establish careers.
She also points out something VERY IMPORTANT for those who ALREADY HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE, but who want to SWITCH FIELDS, perhaps not due to “whim” but due to economic practicality. IF you have an undergraduate degree, it is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to get a scholarship to STUDY A DIFFERENT FIELD. Most (all?) scholarship money is saved for those who have not yet achieved a degree. That makes SOME sense…
The only ways to do it are: 1) to chose a field that has an Entry-Level Masters degree. That term means that you are starting a NEW field of study rather than getting a HIGHER LEVEL of study in your original field. Unfortunately, not all fields have Entry-Level Masters programs. 2) Choose a field that has its TERMINAL DEGREE at the associates level. You won’t get any scholarship money, but community college tuition is much more affordable.
Perhaps this is NO longer as true as it was in the year 2000? Perhaps there are a few specialized SCHOLARSHIPS that help individuals who are going for a SECOND undergraduate degree. Seek them out, if they exist.
One of the BIGGEST PROBLEMS is that people applied themselves to ALL THE HARD WORK of GETTING A COLLEGE EDUCATION, only to see the work in their field OUTSOURCED; YET the graduate IS DEEP IN DEBT TO PAY FOR THE COLLEGE DEGREE!!! NAFTA does NOT make ECONOMIC SENSE. It DOES exploit the workers of the third world who are PAID LESS. We KNOW what it does to American workers! Best wishes to everybody who has written in!
Posted by Christine W., on March 25th, 2009 at 4:57 pm EDTRay Duvall (March 25, 2:36 p.m., above) sounds so KIND in his suggestion that people move to economically healthier parts of the country — a simple, self-directed strategy…and in some cases it MIGHT work. But, some people can’t leave the area they live in for social reasons (they might share custody of their children; their elderly parents needing help might live in the original location; perhaps they ARE involved in a school program that is already underway, etc., etc.)
Another DREADFUL thought: so many jobs in textiles left Southern New England a few decades ago for a “healthier” business climate in North Carolina. But then, due to NAFTA, the jobs went to Mexico and then to Asia. What defines a HEALTHY region or a HEALTHY, QUALIFIED WORKER is not in the hands of the region or individual worker, no matter how hard they try, no matter what concessions they make! Corporations and The Market call the shots. NAFTA and Globalism, as it is now practiced, TAKE AWAY INDIVIDUAL AGENCY from people and regions!!! THAT is a PERSCRIPTION for depression! It is crazy-making!!
My personal opinion is that unfettered, under-regulated Capitalism would return to using SLAVERY if it could get away with it! As it is, too many companies just keep chasing the lowest possible labor costs WITH ALL OTHER ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL, SAFETY, ENVIRONMENTAL AND POLITICAL VALUES THROWN DOWN THE TUBES. WORSE yet, we KNOW that some workers throughout the world ARE CURRENTLY being held AS SLAVES. That works SO well for business!! Currently, the outsourcing of jobs EXPLOITS the third world workers by denying them FAIR MARKET VALUE. IF IT IS ONE BIG MARKET GLOBALLY, then people should be paid the SAME throughout the worldwide market!! Again, we KNOW what unfettered “Globalism” does to American workers. IF it were TRULY a GLOBAL market, wouldn’t I be buying wonderful products from India that represent India’s cultural stance(s)? Instead I am buying American-designed products or services from India. My CULTURAL range has not changed in the slightest, altho THAT is what would TRULY be GLOBALISM!!
I’ve never written THREE TIMES on any given topic before. Thanks for bearing with me!
Posted by Christine W., on March 25th, 2009 at 5:53 pm EDTjeffe,
It’s not true that all the computer programming jobs have been outsourced. Here in Boston, it appears that demand for developers is still fairly strong. Just check craigslist. Outsourcing happens, but I don’t think an experienced developer would have any trouble finding work here these days. Someone right out of college maybe, but if you’re going back to school for a computer science degree, you’ll be in good shape when you graduate in a few years.
All of that said, I’m not sure I’d recommend a middle-aged person get a CS degree. There’s a lot of age discrimination in this profession.
Posted by Clint, on March 25th, 2009 at 7:01 pm EDTTom,
You just asked your guest from L.A. a question, and then 10 seconds later cut him off and said it was time for break.
I feel like this happens regularly. Come on man!
Posted by Harlan, on March 25th, 2009 at 7:29 pm EDTClint if your 38 by the time you finish you will 40.
Once your over 40 the world of job hunting changes.
I know from experience. I’m in my early 50’s, if I lose my job it’s over for me. I am too old to retrain for anything.
Posted by jeffe, on March 26th, 2009 at 7:01 am EDTJeffe:
I’m 51 and considering nursing school. It will take me 3 years. I’ll be 54 then. If I don’t go to nursing school I’ll still be 54 in 3 years.
Posted by rwh, on March 26th, 2009 at 8:56 am EDTI think nursing is different due to the demand for nurses. I would think that was one of the few areas one could find work. I for one do not have the stomach for it, nursing is not for everyone. I have already gone through career changes and school, I still have loans to pay off. Right now at this point on my life the last thing I need is more debt.
Posted by jeffe, on March 26th, 2009 at 12:28 pm EDT