Happy Cinco de Mayo!

Tom, listening now. Thanks so much for having Ruth Reichl as a guest, she’s as wonderful as I expected. All her influence on food world aside, she’s my favorite memoirist bar none.

Ruth, that was my mom, too. I’ve given her your other three books, but I’m afraid I’d beeter not do the same with this one.

My mother is so similar to Ruth’s. Born in 1926, my mother admitted in her 60’s “I would have liked to have been a nurse.” It stunned her entire family, because finally one of the sisters (there were six) admitted that the life of wife and mother was not all she expected to be, and it was not fulfilling. But her family thought that the only thing girls could be was married, and so not one of them had a career, only crappy jobs to bring in some money.

Why are we always made to feel that women have the “burden” of women hood. The fact that women are born with the ability to create and raise children is a privalage and not a burden.

My mother was lucky enough NOT to be an American woman. When she graduated from the University of Warsaw Law School before WWII, half the graduating class were women. Poland’s 100 years of occupation by foreign powers and then long-sought independence after WWI led to tremendous opportunities for many women and others. My mother entered the Polish diplomatic corps when her father died and then was lucky enough to work with the Polish Armed Forces abroad during WWII. When my parents immigrated to the U.S., my mother went back to school and became a librarian. As a result, I tended to be odd-woman out among most American women of my age. I consider myself very lucky to have such a role model as my Mom and her Polish women friends, all professionals. And sadly, all gone.

“We just want to shoot this man” I must point out that the diparity between men and women is exemplified by this quote. What would we think if a man were to say in any context if a man were to say “We just want to shoot this woman”?

Hello Tom:

Can you please ask the author why she thinks her mother withheld the best of herself from her daughter? Even if she could not speak to her daughter directly why were the letters hidden?
Was she ashamed of herself and her choices or afraid of her daughters judgment?

Dustin, men don’t verbalize their intentions to shoot people, they just go ahead and do it. Please, if you are uncomfortable in a forum where women are permitted to speak their minds without fear and censorship, please visit another radio site where your misogynistic views are amplified without censorship.

Ms Reichl, thank you for sharing your life and food adventures. Just finished Garlic and Sapphire’s and looking forward to this book.
I have a similar relationship with my mother (and not wanting to be like her) but now as an adult am discovering her story and am thankful she is the way she is. She sacrificed herself to put all of her hopes and goodness into me.

My sense from being a child in the ’50s was that a veritable scarlet letter A hung over the home of any woman who was out of step. What that meant? It was shameful for a woman to have to hold a job. It was shameful in the extreme not to be perfectly in love and fall over the cliff to the disaster of divorce. It was shameful not to have a husband and children. Apparently it was allowed to chant like a mantra, “From break of day to set of sun, a woman’s work is never done,” though “woman’s work” in the ’50s was vastly simplified by electric appliances. If one shamed such a mother by not following that path, one became persona non grata, a nonperson, dangerously flawed. End of story.
Another lens might reflect that the child who does not follow that path might live out the life the mother would have enjoyed, thrived in. She might vicariously enjoy what another generation discovers.
But iIt is apparently too painful for some women to admit that, that a life of careful conformity that was happy in certain ways was actually badly curtailed. Or why else that chant?

Oh my goodness, what you just said about women being blamed if the house is messy, rings so true, It’s interesting how skills traditionally associated with women are still associated with them. I have an example recently of this, my husband was asking me how to make a slip cover for a sofa, I replied “Just because I have a Vagina, doesn’t mean I know how to sew.”

We tend not to count ‘We just want to shoot this man,’ out of a combination of experience and blatant sexism—men kill a lot more of their spouses than do women, making it a less immediate threat, and to the extent that we don’t take women seriously our sexism makes it look cutesy.

As for burdens and privileges, these are both matters of perception, and not mutually exclusive (a reality may be both at once)—I would also point out that men are also capable of raising children, and usually (still) have some part in their creation…. I guess the irreducible burden lies in the fact that the woman is stuck with the outcome for at least nine months and a lot of discomfort or until she can get the abortion, but the man isn’t—if he runs, he might feel like he’s being a complete jerk, but even when that’s so, most people are able to live with it, maybe just drinking a bit more to handle it.

I am unable to get through on the phne but would like to add information from a pyschological (as opposed to a sociological) point of view. And talk about modeling vs anti-modeling.

Terrific interview…so many of the women of my childhood were either working themselves to death on a farm, or boring themselves to death being traditional wives/moms. My own mother worked in county government and made it very clear to all of her daughters (as did my dad) that we should not let others set limits for us.

How she did this in rural Nebraska, I’ll never know, but I’m surely grateful that she did.

Neil, I think we tend to forget that a few decades back people were not so comfortable sharing their feelings as they are now. In addition, that older generation did not feel they should share everything with children – and that is probably somewhat the case now. Besides, people sometimes don’t even notice what is the “best in them” much less tell others of motivations that seem natural to them.

It is easy for you to generalize when you say that men do not feel guilty about being at work and only women do because you only have the female perspective. You couldn’t be more wrong about how good, strong fathers feel about how much time they have to spend away from their children each and every day.

Please open your mind a little bit more even if you are blaming your mother for your shortcomings.

In my own matrilineage working outside of the home skipped a generation.
Both grandmothers worked, one as a teacher (Chairman of the English Dept. at a regional high school) the other as an accountant in a bank. Their mothers worked, as well. One owned and operated a bookstore in Tulsa (she was of Cherokee lineage) and the other was a visiting nurse.
My own mother never had to work outside of the home. So, she never did,unlike my generation of women who are heavily pressed to live double and sometimes triple lives: As workers whose income is required to maintain a home, as mothers & wives and as active members of a sustainable community.
I sometimes envy my mother but then I see that she has no experience at all in the real world and has turned to drugs and the insatiable consumption of stuff to fill up her time and distract her mind from looking at who she could have been.
Thanks very much,Ruth. I really appreciated this segment of On Point.

Many of these oppressed women turned their anger and bitterness onto their daughters; rather than trying to help their daughters find themselves and build their own lives, they resented the freedom and opportunities that this next generation of women experienced.
As well, with little say in their own lives, their desire to control something found easy victims in their children, most especially, their daughters.
Of course there’s so much more to be said on this subject. Read the short short brilliant “Girl” by Jamaica Kincaid.

My mother lived between two worlds. She was raised as a dutiful daughter. She was raised to be a wife and mother. She was taught in the home arts, music, and manners. In the 70’s with a house full of children, she watched the womens movement through media never allowing herself a different path. As her only daughter she pushed me to be more and to be better and gave me the gift of the womens movement that she never allowed herself. Even after her death I feel her smiling down on me when I accomplish things she was not given the chance to. The new womens movement for me now is to see the power of my mothers life. With multiple degrees from Universities I have embraced my homemaker life and the greater impact I have in that role than many others. It is a thing of strength. The success of my home and children are the biggest accomplishment I have enjoyed with the most outreaching effects.

Our mothers of the 70’s were all movers whether in aprons or in Washington. They built the bridges to take us from one road to several. I hope we do create another women’s movement. I hope this time we include the strength of both working women and stay at home mothers. These two groups need to be united in choices. Not one better than the other.

Beth, you are so right about the need to create another women’s movement, but without great public policy changes, women will not be able to both work and raise children. Americans – women and men – need to work less hours, enabling families to lead meaningful, joyful lives and be engaged in their communities and the world.
(And we have got to get rid of the “beauty” industry!)

I tried to call in, but was unable to in time. It is truly unfortunate that Ms. Reichl was able to wander away without someone addressing the hurtful generalization in her statement that men neither feel guilt about not being home with children when at work nor about not being at work when they are home. It is sad if her husband actually told her that he did not feel any guilt when he left his children to go to work.

Similarly, it is ridiculous and patronizing to think that caring for children in motherhood or fatherhood is not experience in the real world. Such views belittle my own mother’s exemplary work as a homemaker raising two children as well as my own choices after going through law school and entering the legal profession.

As a man who left the practice of law after eleven years to raise his son while his wife pursues her career I was shocked by such comments. I hope that others do not hold such ignorant beliefs. Most of all I hope that my son can grow up in a world where he has real choices for fulfillment in his life, such as parenthood and a career or parenthood only, not just career versus family.

On this Mother’s Day I will honor my mother and grandmother for the way that they loved their children and the things that they taught them rather than for what they were paid to do which has little to do with being a parent.

I listened to this segment of On Point again, just to make sure that I had not missed something that men might take as offensive towards their own contributions to civilization and perpetuation of the species.

No. I missed nothing that did not resonate the first time.

It’s Mother’s Day, guys. Wait a month and then you can all have the whole joint to yourselves as you honor the Fathers.
PEACE~ Your Mom would like that for a change.

“We need to recognize that we are in a country where both parents work. It is time for social policy to help women in this country.”
AMEN AMEN!
from a working mother

[...] with liquor at dinner. How far we’ve come. The book illustrates it much better than I do, as does NPR, who featured a a fantastic podcast and discussion on her and the [...]

I enjoyed listening to this conversation. As far as “mother serving as a counter example”, I can totally relate. My mother is an immigrant from the Dominican Republic and a widow. She has always lived her life very regimented. I also feel like she lives her life in fear of taking risks and therefor lives a very unsatisfying life. Growing up I felt very sheltered because of the way mother was. I decided very early on that I would not live in fear as my mother has. I’ve made A LOT of mistakes because I’ve taken some chances. (I’m 25 years old, so I’m sure I have many more mistakes to make). Despite all the crying I’ve done after being burned by yet another mistake, I tend to bounce back and find a lesson in my disasters. I’ll need years of therapy, I’m sure, but at least I don’t hold back. I’m honest to myself about my feelings and about what makes me happy. I don’t know if my mother has any regrets, but I do wonder about that.

Matthew & Paul: I’m really delighted and relieved to hear men articulate these experiences. I think such voices get overlooked in the media’s inclination to divide the genders into predictable, diametrically opposed groups. Paul, I admire your ability and willingness to excel within and move between domestic and professional spheres. But I don’t think Ms. Reichl meant you any offense. The difference between you and her mother’s generation is that you had the freedom to determine your life: It has not been arbitrarily imposed upon you. I don’t think any of us that have been beneficiaries of a parent working at home could take for granted their attention, sacrifice, and efforts on our behalf.

I have listened to a telephone call commenting on Ruth Reichl interview. Most of this program is very related to me and my Mother, she was professional, and super critical in her own words because she wanted me to be better. We immigrated from Russia, I am 60, my Mom is 87. We have been in the USA for 20 years, and I am still amazed how selfish, uncompromising and very confused many young women are in America. “I, me and myself” are words used more often than “we and together”. However we talk about team work and ability to be a team player. Where? Only at work?

I don’t know whereabouts in Russia Irene grew up, but as I recall, we understood the USSR, by its very oppression, to have evolved deep communal values, out of necessity. One had to learn to evaluate and trust individuals much more than in a country (ours) where presumably justice is blind, and there is freedom of speech and association. The last post seems to confirm that. Someone who left Russia 20 years ago, about when the Iron Curtain came down, would have missed a steep curve of individualism, competition, etc., I suspect.
And anyway, she specifies “young” women here as less team players, and I think that is because they are angling for the best mates. It is a prime assighnment for young women. Mate catching is not a team assignment, at least not in this country.
In case Irene wants to know how her comment falls on the American ears of someone about her age.

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Hi,
This was an excellent program and discussion. I want to take the advice that Ruth gave, which is to get to know your mother better while you still can. My mother is in good health, and I like to think I have gotten to know her a little. My problem is that I’ve come to know her as an adult, I find that she’s a difficult person to have a relationship with. In short: I love her and am grateful to her, but I find myself (very guiltily) not enjoying talking to her or spending time with her because she has an unpleasant personality.
Any body have any recommendations on this?
Thanks

“Dustin, men don’t verbalize their intentions to shoot people, they just go ahead and do it. Please, if you are uncomfortable in a forum where women are permitted to speak their minds without fear and censorship, please visit another radio site where your misogynistic views are amplified without censorship.”

C’mon, mari, you’re kidding, right? Do we have to play the misogynist card in a split-second, knee-jerk response? Dustin is completely within the realm of reasonableness to claim that men would be drawn and quartered for making such a statement. A statement like “I just wanted to shoot her” could derail the entire career of a public figure. Your statements are not defensible–not his.

I have a masters degree from Radcliffe in gender studies and literature, lest it be thought I don’t have enough sensitivity training. I “get” and live with great compassion toward women and their struggles. But men–good, decent, honorable men–are often subjected to the misogynist card unfairly and unreasonably.

Just had to express my gratitude for such a delightful belly laugh as I listened to this interview.The spirit of your love and gratitude for your mother and your gift in your ability to tell a story so dexterously, make for a rare and welcome concoction of the highest order, fit for gourmets (and gourmands) everywhere….Thank you!
Many of the mistakes mothers make are just because they are who they are in circumstances beyond their control and are just groping their way toward the light, the best they know how…or not…:-)
So nice to see someone appreciate that which made her who she is and to express it with such humor.A gift for us all…thank you again…

[...] the broadcast from onpointradio [...]