This has affected me more that I expected. He was a genius, although a troubled one. I hope he has found peace and wish the same for his family.

I feel as if I’ve been force feed a super-size McMedia Jackson meal for the past 24 hours. Don’t get me wrong here, I loved Michael too! (May he rest in peace) Sorry Tom, I wont be listening to this second hour.

I think we should let every pedophile out of jail today, if they can show us that they can sing and dance. You know what your priorities are! We need our singers and dancers. We love those who can sing and dance. Woo! Woo! Woo!

Well, if he was guilty of said crimes, then he was an abused child who became an abuser.

If not, then he was an abused child and a persecuted famous person.

A lot here about fame, the media construction of fame, identity, etc.

Tim my feelings exactly. I was watching Good Morning America, which is good for a laugh, and they had Charles Gibson on and when he said that hearing Jackson’s music reminded him of his IPod I almost choked on my coffee.

It’s sad that this freak show called Michael Jackson has died, but really what good has he done for the world?

I mean his music aside, what is his legacy?

The more I think of it this show on Michael Jackson is a complete waste of time. Why does WBUR see fit in wasting the money of it’s contributors on this?

Are there not more important things going on in the world?
This is something I expect from GMA of some other tabloid news organization. I will be spending this hour listing to Democracy Now as I work in my home studio.

What a waste of air space.

“music aside?”

Let’s put the Nobel Prise winning scientist’s experiments aside. Those experiments aside, why does he get to win a Noble Prise. Huh?

“Why does WBUR see fit in wasting the money of it’s contributors on this?”

I agree. Unless this show bravely gets beneath the surface and analyses the society, media and notions of fame undergirding all of this.

Something heard nowhere else.

Like it or not, whether he has intentionally or unintentionally impacted lots of people with his music, at the end of the day, he did. A person’s legacy doesn’t have to be intentional societal moral impact, he did what he was good at and passionate about, and left his legacy, that’s how people remember him, regardless what he did in his personal life. That’s how artists being remembered in our society.

There are plenty of artists from ancient to modern time, they always seem to struggle a lot in their personal life. Because they show every bit of human, flaws or perfection, all in one person. That’s how they create their art from their heart, good or bad, it’s all personal perception.

Although I personally am not a big fan of pop music anymore, but I grew up listening to his music, his voice, I had good times with his music, that’s how I will remember him. And he did very ground breaking style for American pop music, yes, he is an ICON. Good or bad, it’s all perception.

So kudo to Tom, thank you for doing this special show for him. Just like any other shows you do, they are all so versatile. Enjoy your show as always.

I’m disappointed that people feel that its a waste of time to discuss Michael Jackson during this hour. What makes NPR great and so much better than other media outlets is the wide range of topics it covers. I was huge Michael Jackson fan and despite his many flaws and questionable behavior, I will never downplay the affect his music had on this world. While some listeners want to be cynical and criticize NPR for discussing this, I doubt I would have read the same comments about discussions on Elvis, Frank Sinatra, or the Beatles. There is no question Michael Jackson and his music had the same affect on the world as they did.

If there is anything to mourn, it is the gradual deterioration of the sanity of a remarkable young man and his rapid transformation into a creepy pedo-celebrity.

The Michael Jackson whose talent we all loved has been gone for decades. To mourn the passing of what’s left is disingenuous at best — either you’re mourning a time in your own lives or conveniently forgetting not merely his eccentricities but his crimes later in life.

Yes, Why WBUR?
Putting aside the previously scheduled programming again for McMedia, which I also recall happening when “How to Live on $2 a Day”(A Producer’s Pick) was scheduled, is exasperating. This is another prime example of perpetuating “mono-media” saturation. The media’s consistency for pushing aside ground-breaking reporting, forgetting old news (hoping we will too) and/or hardly ever focusing on news that will really effect any American’s living below upper middle class has grown weary. Yes, Micheal was the King Pop, but pop culture belongs in the entertainment section. Its time America woke up! STOP CENSURING THE AMERICAN MEDIA, show reality as it is seen by the eyewitness, not candy coated by a smiling or laughing mouthpiece. Go to the poverty-stricken areas in our cities/town and report what life is really like. Show the realities of young soldiers, children and women dying in war torn counties. Let us see displaced people imprisoned either in their home land or in refugee camps. Lets get back to real reporting Tom. Please, enough Jacko already!

“What makes NPR great and so much better than other media outlets is the wide range of topics it covers.”

Not only range, but depth.

“A person’s legacy doesn’t have to be intentional societal moral impact”

I disagree that music has nothing to do with intentional societal moral impact. The songs he chose to record, the messages in the lyrics, where he chose to perform concerts are all intentional societal moral acts.

Michael Jackson was the most talented singer of all time. He was bigger than the Beatles or Elvis.

Talent and sales #s aren’t the same thing.

That said, he did have hefty amounts of both.

Well being a fan of his music would one would of course want to have a show on Michael Jackson.

Am I cynical, well when it comes to pop music yes.
Just because you had fun dancing or whatever when you were 12 years old does not make it a viable subject for a hour of what is a news program.

Yes Michale Jackson was an icon of pop music. He was innovative or was that Quincy Jones, no matter.

Michale Jackson was also an alleged pedophile and lord knows what he did to his children.
If you unpack the life of Michael Jackson you start to see a one very dysfunctional family. A father son relationship that has to be one of the most bizarre as Jackson seemed to want to change his looks so much based on this in part. I mean this guy was a complicated talented individual who’s fall from grace was extremely sad. But hey I’m being to pessimistic for those bleeding hearts out there.

I don’t think BUR has done any shows that I can think of on Sinatra as far as I know.

Michele WBUR and OnPoint in particular was originally designed to be a more in depth news source. Spending an hour on fluff, which is what I suspect this will be, with people calling in and swooning over some kind of nostalgic memory based on what they were doing when Thriller came out is not my idea of a good program.
But hey that’s what makes the world go around.
Have fun tuning in.

Music Producer Phil Ramone

We talk with the man behind hits by Frank Sinatra, Bob Dylan, Billy Joel and Rufus Wainwright.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But as an avid NPR listener, I’ve heard many stories that are not related to “in depth” news. Including discussions on Bonnie and Clyde, Fred Astaire, Bill Russell and so forth. I enjoyed these discussions because I learned something new about individuals, I will never meet and never know. My point is that I didn’t read the same critical comments during those discussions. Who knows? Maybe no one else was listening besides me.

Forget “Thriller”- his best album ever is “Off the Wall”- an ingenious mix of pop, funk, soul and disco. I can’t believe it has been over 30 years since its release, and it still passes the test of time!

There’s a good read in today’s Chicago Sun Times:
http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/1640804,CST-NWS-jackodero26.article

OK I was not aware that Jackson named his children Prince Michael Jackson, Paris Michael Katherine Jackson, and Prince Michael Jackson II. I guess he was really the King of Pop…

Can’t forget Nelson Riddle who was behind Sinatra’s
best recordings in the late fifties and early sixties.

Phil Ramone is one of the greats as well.

“My point is that I didn’t read the same critical comments during those discussions.”

Michelle – I don’t think it is racism. It is media saturation. When OnPoint did the Fred Astaire show, no other media outlet was. The day after Elvis died, we’d be so saturated with the news reports that many would say “Uh! 24-hour Elvis and now an OnPoint hour, too!”

I think it is legit, if it goes deeper than all the other surface-scraping media babble.

I was not around to watch the horrific unraveling of Elvis Presley, but yesterday, hearing the news about MJ, I thought I might have an idea what it was like when it finally came to a close.

I really believe it is impossible to survive being The Most Famous Person in the World with your sanity intact. Compound that with the damage done by Jackson’s total lack of a real childhood, and I almost have to feel relieved for him.

Wherever he is now, may he somehow regain his innocence.

[rewrite for clarity] I think OnPoint doing a show is legit, if …

Whoa! Who said anything about racism? I was just criticizing the fact that people don’t want to hear about Michael Jackson because its not considered the type of news that NPR and On Point typically covers. My point is that that happens quite frequently. Tom will discuss many topics and yet no one gets upset. I know Michael was controversial, I just think its a little hypocritical to choose this time to criticize NPR for covering a topic that’s not as in-depth as the topics typically covered. I’m just a Michael Jackson fan, saddened by his death and little sensitive that people don’t want to hear about his achievements as well as his faults.

Michael was a talented performer and as such I’m happy to celebrate his work. What he wasn’t was healthy or a whole person. Everyone could see that there was something broken about him. The tragedy here is that, despite his great wealth, he didn’t have the internal resources to successfully heal himself. I would have been more impressed if he had been able to heal instead of spreading the evil that broke him.

Whether or not he actually touched any of those kids, it was clear that his behavior was concerning. It revealed his chaotic inner world and unfortunately that world – sexual abuse or not – had an impact on other children’s life. This to me is so very sad.

What we may be considering genious perhaps is, instead, survival. His “brilliance” as a boy was driven by forces outside himself that were clearly exploitive.

He was a pedophile. Don’t tell me he wasn’t because “he wasn’t convicted.” Most pedophiles never are.
Let’s not celebrate his life but mourn the loss of childhood for his victims. Sell off his share of Neverland and give it to victims’ rights groups.
I find it offensive that a show I respect is dedicating an hour to this man.

OnPoint covers pop culture.

People are reacting against the media saturation the day after.

“While some listeners want to be cynical and criticize NPR for discussing this, I doubt I would have read the same comments about discussions on Elvis, Frank Sinatra, or the Beatles.”

So what is the difference bewtween this group and MJ? Not race, but that MJ did pop music?

It was the summer of 1979. My cousin, an avid punk music fan, took me aside, out of earshot from others, and said: “You’ve got to hear this new record! This is the future of pop music.” I was somewhat stunned to hear the opening rhythm and notes from “Off The Wall”, Michael Jackson’s breakthrough solo debut album. I became an instant convert to the cause of re-funkifying American popular music.

Nobody else ever could or ever will dance and sing like Michael did. His physical moves were otherworldly and the vocal punctuation he used, those whoops and grunts, created a whole new standard that others would feverishly try to emulate. Only he could pull it off, though.

I’ve got to say, whenever I hear “Billie Jean” my feet start moving, my hips begin to bounce and my heart leaps with joy at the pure, sublime perfection of the rhythms. Thank you, Michael, wherever your spirit is right now, you ARE the one true King of Pop, forever.

Expanded Consciousness, I think you are taking my comments completely out of context. People’s comments weren’t about the media saturation. They were criticizing the fact that its being discussed on NPR. People have made reference to world issues being more important and that On Point shouldn’t devote an hour to talk about this because that’s not as important. I think I’ve made it clear that I am saying that when On Point talks about other pop culture topics, people don’t say “why are we talking about this? there are other important issues in the world.” I never mentioned race nor made a reference to it.

Imagine if our life or soul can be recycled and if there’s reincarnation, do you think Michael will choose to possess “big fame” like this again? I know I won’t.

People eat people (metaphorically), that’s how we survive in this world. We suck energy from any living thing on this planet if we can get our hands on.

All gossip news media like Tabloids are living organism to suck blood out of celebrities then to feed those gossip thriving people out there.

OnPoint won’t do a show about his personal life gossip while he is alive, but this one hour is necessary to overview his entire life legacy and impact on other people, good or bad.

I think these discussions give a distorted picture of the role of Jackson in bringing “black” music into the mainstream of pop. By the late 60s, many black artists were widely popular — Hendrix, Gaye and many other Motown stars, Slye, etc. Look at the bill for Woodstock. Jackson probably went a step beyond Hendrix, becoming such a dominant presence in the 80s, but the path was open.
What did surprise me was that MTV was racist and he was the pioneer there. This certainly was significant — though one wonders how long such an absurd regressive policy would have held up in any case.
He was very important, but it is unfair to others to exaggerate his role.

Bernard Biales

I can’t say I was a big fan but I did recognize the great talent he had. I heard a very preliminary report saying that he had a painkiller addiction. This is not the first time we have heard of someone famous dying of an accidental or otherwise overdose. I think the police should do some checking into the doctor or doctors who did the prescribing or however he got his drugs. These professionals should have known that there was an addiction problem. If someone was supplying him with these drugs illicitly, that person should be dealt with as well.

ENOUGH ALREADY! A pop icon is dead. That was yesterday. Right now there is a silent military coup happening in Iran.

Notwithstanding the inroads MJ made to cross racial lines through his music, I think it’s important to also acknowledge the paradoxical efforts MJ made to neutralize the physical characteristics of his own race through plastic surgery and skin-bleaching. Was this perhaps MJ’s way of also crossing racial lines in a physical way? Or was it a deeper problem he had with his own image?

Am listening to this show on Michael Jackson right now – what trash – the participants re-hashing “authoritatively” the same unsubstantiated tabloid, media hysteria we hear everywhere else. One expects more from NPR.

Hopefully, at some point, we’ll get an intelligent appraisal of Mr. Jackson’s talents and contributions without the populist, reactionary speculation passed off as fact by so-called journalists. Mr. Jackson was a true artist – and like most creative and original artists of his stature – complex.

In the meantime, NPR is just going to provide us with more of the Salem Witch trials, circa 2009.

Michele –

“People’s comments weren’t about the media saturation.”

My interpretation is saying that is exactly what it creating their reaction.

“They were criticizing the fact that its being discussed on NPR.”

Yes, the day after th death, when we are saturated with news reports.

“I think I’ve made it clear that I am saying that when On Point talks about other pop culture topics, people don’t say “why are we talking about this?”

Yes, because those other OnPoint shows on pop culture aren’t during a media blitz, when the subject it on all channels, 24-hours a day.

Reading some of the comments here, and listening to some callers, has really got me feeling disgusted with the idealistic youth worship so many Americans indulge in.

Why wouldn’t a great artist be permitted to live a long life, now, like Pablo Picasso or Katherine Hepburn did?
What the heck is up with this demand for early deaths of the supremely gifted? Smacks of jealousy and envy, to me. Very mean spirited stuff, especially coming from folks who are “60″ and “pushing 70.”

Now, THAT’s perverted and gross behavior, in my opinion.

Yea, it was stupid. I can imagine MJ being 90. How stupid to say otherwise.

Comm’on, chill out. Why so upset with just one hour, if you don’t want to listen, don’t tune in. There are plenty of Tom’s shows I wasn’t necessarily interested, I just don’t tune in. I’m sure not every single one of his shows caters for everyone of his listens. For those listeners are so opposed to this one hour show about Michael, you just have to bite the bullets, sorry.

Justanother: the complaints aren’t about what we feel is a waste of our time. If that was it, you would be right to say, effectively, “tune in or shut up” to those who complain about this “one hour.”

But that’s not the point: the point, as I see it, is with the content of the show, which focuses disproportionally on his exceptional talent while brushing aside the so-called allegations of child-molestation.

It’s the intentional eclipsing of (an admittedly disturbed) man’s disgusting crimes by his (well-deserved) early successes within this single-hour of coverage with which those of us who aren’t “chilling out” take issue.

Let’s give Michael a little break now that he is gone. Let’s all remember that beside his fame and flaws he was just one of us. He was just like you and me and Sanford and Gingricht and Folley and Bush and Cheney…. tragically human!

Amen justanother. Between people commenting on the show before its aired and all the disgust with NPR and onPont for covering Michael Jackson at all (because folks think the story is too low brow) is ridiculous.

If you aren’t interested in a topic, tune out.

Putney, at 7:54 am this morning, you posted this:

“The more I think of it this show on Michael Jackson is a complete waste of time. Why does WBUR see fit in wasting the money of it’s contributors on this?”

The show wasn’t on the air yet. Give it a rest man.

OnPoint has a long history of covering hard news in the first hour and books, music, and softer news in the second hour. Had the Michael Jackson coverage usurped the week in the news segment you might have had a point but it didn’t.

I think Jacki and guests did a fine job covering it and I’m glad I listened. I wasn’t a fan of Michael Jackson’s but I’ve been well aware of his affect on the world which is bigger than many in this thread seem to understand. This show helped illuminate some of that affect, both good and bad.

*****It’s the intentional eclipsing of (an admittedly disturbed) man’s disgusting crimes by his (well-deserved) early successes within this single-hour of coverage with which those of us who aren’t “chilling out” take issue. Posted by irina *****

I fully understand your view point, and I haven’t listened to the show yet online, since I am not able to listen to the radio show until sometime this afternoon they make it available online. It does need balance, good or bad on his legacy.

I was referring to an earlier comments, saying this show is a waste of time.

Quote: **** The more I think of it this show on Michael Jackson is a complete waste of time. Why does WBUR see fit in wasting the money of it’s contributors on this?

Are there not more important things going on in the world?
This is something I expect from GMA of some other tabloid news organization. I will be spending this hour listing to Democracy Now as I work in my home studio.

What a waste of air space. Posted by Putney Swope ****

Well, every show has different focus, this show might just focus on his impact on all his fans around the world. As far as a well balance and examining his full legacy, Tom might need to do another show, and then again, some listeners will complain about that because of the airtime that is given to MJ.

It’s really not a big deal whether to do or how to do the show, it’s about the content.

Give it a rest, man? This has been on 24 hours since this guy passed away. No I will not give it a rest. I think doing an hour on this was a waste of time. A mention of it in the news of the week would have been fine.

It just shows how absurd our culture is that we are tied to celebrity worship. The things Jackson did he did over 25 years ago. Since then he has been embarrassing to watch. Can anyone name one song in the last 10 years or anything he has done in the last 10 years that matter except his being charged and tried for child molestation?

Richard, your entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.
Don’t tell me to shut up or give it a rest, OK,…man.

It’s a timely discussion about a troubled, but massively influential person. Thanks for the show guys.

“Don’t tell me to shut up or give it a rest, OK,…man.”

I didn’t tell you to shut up but it would be useful if you would listen to the show before commenting on what slant the coverage will take.

Or, don’t listen.

I tried to but turned it off after 10 minutes, it was fluff.

Technically I am not a huge fan of MJ, and I do see how American pop culture idolizes all “packaged” icon, like “American Idol” (it is such a wrong name for that show.)

To me a real “critical/serious” musician should compose/write/perform their own music, and take risks. And they are not “pop” musician, they will never have “mass” appeal, which I thank god for that.

So to me MJ is not a real musician, that’s why he is labeled the king of “pop”. But he’s got great talents to bring out whatever the package deal he signed on for, and he delivered them. And that is his undeniable talents.

“To me a real “critical/serious” musician should compose/write/perform their own music”

That is a very recent, modern and flawed definition of a singer/performer. It is only after Bob Dylan that singer/performers wrote their own material. So, if you think the only talent is writing songs, then you believe there was never a worthy singer/performer prior to Bob Dylan. You believe they created nothing. You believe Pavarotti created nothing.

Elvis
Bessie Smith
Louis Armstrong (wrote music)
Billie Holiday (she did write a few tunes)
Ella Fitzgerald
Sarah Vaughan
Anita O’Day
Cris Conners
Frank Sinatra
Tony Bennett

A few singers who for the most part did not write their own songs.

****** That is a very recent, modern and flawed definition of a singer/performer. It is only after Bob Dylan that singer/performers wrote their own material. So, if you think the only talent is writing songs, then you believe there was never a worthy singer/performer prior to Bob Dylan. You believe they created nothing. You believe Pavarotti created nothing. —- Posted by Expanded Consciousness *******

Don’t give me wrong, it’s not my intent to belittle their great talents. I have tremendous respect and admiration of all the American icons you have mentioned. I enjoy every bit of their talents and music.. At times we just have to look at talents in their own category. I guess I got spoiled by some of those well-rounded musicians with multi talents, then again none of them can dance like the way MJ dose, so at the end of the day, MJ must have gotten something that people mesmerize about him. That’s the point I was making, just because some people can’t fully appreciate his talents, doesn’t mean they need to belittle his achievement and his fans. One can’t downplay the good times that his music has brought to so many people in the world.

Response to Expanded Consciousness, on June 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm EDT:

You’re offering the same exact tract you did on the first hour’s comments and it is less cogent now in light of dozens of comments preceding it than it was early…

No one doubts Jackson’s performance talent, but that talent had waned since the last decade and he had no ’second act.’ Not even as a pathetic Lounge Singer that Elvis (who stole R&B artists’ music and moves) devolved into.

You fall in the trap that compares entertainers with music makers like Dylan, the Beatles, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, and Randy Newman (to name a few) as equals. (You may reject this particular list, but the number of performance artists who record their songs are in the thousands)

The irony is the artists I listed fight to separate themselves from their past music as they continually evolve as artists. Dylan and Young have both been booed by fans who want them to (as Joni Mitchell admonished one fan request in concert) “offer an old record.”

As for the performers you listed (with the exception of Tony Bennett who reinvented his sound within a contemporary context in the ‘90s and 00s), once hitting their zenith, they were left behind supported by a solid core of fans who flock to “specials,’ ‘revival shows,’ or PBS fund raising broadcasts.

Had Jackson been able to live to perform in England this summer as scheduled, his corporate self would have hauled in millions $$ for performances and repackaging of past hits.

The idea of considering his death as a loss for anyone other than his family is rather scary. For those who truly feel the loss of connection to the media coronated “King of Pop” need only go to their music videos or their CDs and connect to him they way they have since the 1990s.

Christopher T. Wood

“PBS fund raising broadcasts.” Hahaha, don’t you hate those shows, I sometimes wish I was wealthy enough to pay them not to run those shows.

Jackson was broke, seemed to be having some “issues” with prescription drugs. Police are looking for his “doctor” for their inquires into Jackson’s death. Seems he has disappeared. The plot thickens…

Here is a side note, my 19 year old daughter and her friends are not paying any attention to this. She knew he died but it seems that Jackson is of no interest to them as a pop icon. His passing was an aside to her day, interesting.

“You’re offering the same exact tract you did on the first hour’s comments and it is less cogent now in light of dozens of comments preceding it than it was earlier”

My comment was in response to the post directly above it that stated, “Musician should compose/write/perform their own music … So to me MJ is not a real musician.” My comment was, therefore, entirely “cogent” to this thread. A musician is someone who is musical. An opera singer is a musician. An opera singer does not write the music. To perform a piece is to interpret a piece and is an artistic and musical act, done by a musician. They are musicians. Not non-musicians that are hired as talents. You are forwarding a bogus definition of a musician.

mu⋅si⋅cian  [myoo-zish-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

“You fall in the trap that compares entertainers with music makers like Dylan, the Beatles, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, and Randy Newman (to name a few) as equals.”

What the hell are talking about? I fall into no trap. I corrected the incorrect definition of a “musician” being touted on here. I made no “comparison.” You have the confusion, not me. You do not understand what a “music maker” is.

“You may reject this particular list, but the number of performance artists who record their songs are in the thousands”

What the hell are talking about, again? DO NOT tell me what my musical taste is, arrogant one. I corrected the definition of a “musician.” I never mentioned my musical taste and what music I “accept” and “reject.” But thanks for “teaching” me that
their songs have been covered.

MJ had “no ’second act’”

So what? What is your point, other than your enjoyment of the fact? To list the number of artists who have a “creative period” and a “creative peak” would fill an encyclopedia. And, yes. They are still “artists.” Another bogus definition of yours, “To be an artists you must peak for your entire life.” Or “reinvent” yourself – a particularly American idiosyncrasy and obsession.

“The idea of considering his death as a loss for anyone other than his family is rather scary.”

Here you reveal your vileness.

Here’s an article from L.A. Times

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-me-jackson-hilburn27-2009jun27,0,4897003.story

The core lesson we learned from his wounded heart is we all need to accept each individual’s change and growth, including our parents, children, sisters, brothers, our friends, co-workers. Life goes through different phases, some had the best time of their life in their childhood, some have better time after adulthood.

Michael didn’t have a solid healthy loving family in his childhood, so his fame and stage is where he gained confidence and energy from, and he want to hold on to that and last forever. But he faced a real challenge — growing up, not as cute as people have always known him for. Early child success can be a curse if you don’t have anyone to guide you through during adolescent and letting you know how to adapt to the cold and cruel reality. If he was guided properly, by realizing that was the growing pain that lots of people have gone thru, he would probably have accepted reality and “himself” a lot better.

In small scale, his story is many many people’s story — our growing pain (believe me I have personally experienced that) the only difference is he is famous, being watched by the whole world, “how can he fall and stumble without being noticed” puts a tremendous pressure on himself.

“The idea of considering his death as a loss for anyone other than his family is rather scary.”

Here you reveal your vileness.

Expanded are we not over reacting here a bit.
In some ways this person is right. People have this tendency to live out their lives through celebrities.
Michael Jackson was in the right place at the right time and had the talent to see it. he broke down the race barrier in pop music, he completly removed this.

Nat King Cole, Ray Charles, James Brown, Sly Stone and Hendrix were much more talented in my view, but Jackson broke was there for the MTV generation and that he had the foresight to understand how TV and the music video could enhance his music. For that he was innovative and should be credited for it.

As far as funk is concerned, give me George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic any day of the week. Talk about funk innovation and they were around at the same time. Still are.

Well I am looking forward listening to tonight show i hope they have someone good.
Long leave the king.
If royalty could at lease dance perhaps I will become a republican and if they could sing I may even become religious.
This discussion show what is wrong with you guys The King was and is love all over the world except for the US.

He was great.

“People have this tendency to live out their lives through celebrities.”

Yes, I have thought that before, too. Notably, when people cried and sent flowers for Princess Di. Most of those same people were distant from, or had no relationship at all with, their own family members and relatives. And they cried why? For a stranger. For a person they never met. For a person who did nothing, achieved nothing. She may have been a nice person, but was just a “clothes horse.” These people were just living out there childhood prince-princess fantasies. That’s it.

Michael Jackson is different. He was a creator. He was a musician. And he was socially relevant.

Although news of this story is rampant, this is the only venue where I’ve found a cogent analysis of the impact of Michael Jackson on his society over decades. Thank-you On Point for not succumbing to the pretensions of those who believe that only “high culture” matters.

Two other intellectual shows on MJ.
From WNYC.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2009/06/26/segments/135271

1. The Brian Lehrer Show / June 26, 2009 / Michael Jackson: Black or White
Michael Jackson: Black or White
Friday, June 26, 2009
ListenAdd Comments [77]
Throughout his career, Michael Jackson had a complex relationship with race. Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University and author of The Hip Hop Wars: What We Talk About When We Talk About Hip Hop-And Why It Matters, reflects on Jackson’s legacy, both musical and social.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/soundcheck/episodes/2009/06/26

2. Soundcheck / June 26, 2009
SOUNDCHECK
Friday, June 26, 2009
PREVIOUS EPISODE

REMEMBERING THE KING OF POP
Michael Jackson was a dazzling singer, iconic dancer, and regular tabloid fixture. He sold 750 million albums, including the best-selling record of all time, and established milestones for fashion, music videos, and celebrity culture. Today: the epic career of Michael Jackson, dead at 50.

Today, we look back at Jackson’s career. Guests include: music critic Jody Rosen of Slate.com; Los Angeles Times chief pop music critic Ann Powers; Marc Anthony Neal, professor of black popular culture at Duke University and contributor to TheRoot.com; Susan Blond, founder and president of Susan Blond Inc. and a former Jackson publicist; Details magazine editor at large Jeff Gordinier; and Bruce Swedien, the recording engineer behind Thriller among other Jackson albums.

Total saturation in coverage on Jackson’s death and life in all forms of media everywhere strikes me as obsessive and hugely irritating, including Jacki Lyden’s show today. It’s as if you just can’t help it (fixating).

I say ditto to Tim’s comments. Well put.

Echoes, yes, of the weird vicarious and sensational fixations at Princess Di’s death; folks wearing their ‘grief’ as a kind of credential making it about them not the famous person’s passing. Beyond tiresome.

Hope Tom is recovering.

Can we, please, just for one day, imagine that Michael Jackson was a person who experienced deep psychic pain for a very long period of time?

The “anger” expressed in “Billie Jean” is a righteous indignation at unjust circumstances. That kind of anger is just about the only emotion grown men in this culture are permitted to display in public. The upbeat, minor key backing music of “Billie Jean” adds substance to the liberating howl for simple understanding. Can we agree about that?

Let’s forget about the sordid rumors and odd physical transformations attributed to this man, just for one day.

Michael Jackson was a gifted, hard-working human being who radiated a bright light wherever he went around this world. He is dead, now. Please try to see this reality as it is for many folks: a very sad and wasteful loss of one man’s precious life.

I found Jacki Lydon dismissive of callers expressing anything other than complete adoration. This really bothered me. For example: to one caller who said something less than positive about MJ (sorry, I cannot remember exactly what) Ms. Lydon said something along the lines of, “Well, hundreds of thousands would disagree with you.” I just want to reiterate that there are many of us out here who found the last third of Jackson’s life quite disturbing. A tremendous artist, yes. But as a human being — much to be concerned about.

Oh yeah you put the hammer on the nail.
“I found Jacki Lydon dismissive of callers expressing anything other than complete adoration”
that is why can wait for tom I shot the the radio we all know were she is going.
Well let me leasing to MJ singing.

MJ tribute fluff? No.

I grew up enjoying listening to Michael Jackson but for nearly two decades I haven’t really listened to his music. I sometimes had mixed feelings when I heard any of his songs playing on the radio. So when I heard the news I thought, that’s big news. I thought the freak shoe is over. Then I thought, huh, I wish it wasn’t true.

I am truly sad that he has passed. And, yes he certainly was weird and in all probability he was guilty of criminal and or inappropriate deviant behavior.

I’ve been watching the tribute on MTV and I remembered what an utterly amazing talent he was. I thought how very sad that there will be no Michael Jackson redemption story, His peaceful image though belied by his private life made an impact on me.

I can’t pardon his behavior, but I can love his moves and music.

To the seventeen year old who called who cannot countenance his guilt, keep an open mind. Yes, there is reason to be cynical about the commercial media, but don’t unburden your conscience via logical fallacy.

Mari,

Your point, “The “anger” expressed in “Billie Jean” is a righteous indignation at unjust circumstances,” would have more creedence about Jackson if the reality is that too many young men have their way with young girls and take no responsibility for the child that is born.

Jackson sweetly sings in his falsetto the “macho” statement made time and time again…

“She’s just a girl who claims that I am the one
But the kid is not my son.”

On a nother note: I agree with Putney Swope (who himself has a great bio-flick by Marvin Van Peebles) list of a number of artists above who transcended ‘pop’ to offer substantial jazz, R&B, soul and funk music way beyond the teeny-bopper pap of Jackson (except for his Quincy Jones concept album Thriller — Quincy, the musicians and writers of all those songs deserve praise for its uniqueness).

By the way Nat Cole was a top jazz pianist/arranger/writer as well as the ‘coolest’ vocalist of his genre!

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_songs_did_Michael_Jackson_write

Here are some of the songs he singlehandedly wrote and composed (the ones that were done by him and others are labelled, the rest were all written and composed by Micheal Jackson):

Billie Jean
The Way You Make Me Feel
Black or White
Bad
I Just Can’t Stop Loving You
Beat It
The Girl Is Mine
Remember The Time (written and composed by Teddy Riley, Michael Jackson and Bernard Belle.)

[Part2]

Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough
Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
Heal The World
Scream (the duet was written and composed by James Harris III and Terry Lewis, Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson.)
They Don’t Care About Us

[Part 3]

Stranger In Moscow
This Time Around (song and lyrics writen by Michael Jackson and composed by Dallas Austin, Bruce Swedien and Rene.)
Earth song
D.S
Money
Childhood
2 Bad (song and lyrics written be Michael Jackson and music composed by Bruce Swedien, Rene, and Dallas Austin.)
HIStory [sic]
Little Susie

Co-Writing “We Are The World”

to Expanded Consciousness —

Thank you for posting those songs. It never took away his talents even he didn’t write/compose his music. But this only tells me how ignorant I was about knowing so little of him, I have to say I have more respect of him as a musician and artist.

May him rest in peace.

Thank you B. Biales (June 26, 10:37 a.m.)! I note the day &* time so people can read his comments.

I think a lot of the discussions thruout ALL the media include talking about POP music as if it is ALL music. If MORE people, worldwide, heard & responded to Michael Jackson’s music, in part because of the means of musical distribution (CD’s, TV, videos, etc.), does that make him more influential MUSICALLY???

Go look at the PBS Ken Burn’s series on JAZZ. Those early men & women of jazz: THEY were the ones whose MUSICAL influence is so HUGE, we almost can’t talk about it, altho Wynton Marsalis & others do so beautifully thruout the series. If we are talking about musical FORMS, we’re talking about THOSE musicians, and, from among them, I would name LOUIS ARMSTRONG as the single most influential musician in all of American culture! The music of the early jazz musicians, including that of Armstrong, is SO powerful, its roots & forms influence every TYPE of music and how it is made or found or built.

Maybe the worldwide average age is just too young to have even grown up with old movies on TV, where we saw great jazz musicians & dancers, including dancers doing the moonwalk! Michael Jackson did NOT create it!! The old black tap dancers: go find them! AND, if you watch the Ken Burns series, one of the MOST heartbreaking parts to watch is the historical time period when enough white musicians had learned from the original black jazz musicians to, thanks to legally mandated segregation, over-run the black musicians, not in terms of talent, but in terms of bookings, recordings, etc. It is a devastatingly unfair piece of American history, and movingly portrayed in the series.

It was, in the end, America’s segregation laws, that kept earlier black musicians from having the worldwide (& even nationwide) fame they earned & deserved. America still TO THIS DAYl has far too many remnants of the segregation era knit into the fabric of life, and Jackson had MTV to buck up against, and he WAS born just a few, short years after the Civil Rights Act. But, the early black jazz musicians made transcendent music from their lived lives, which were politically stacked against them to a FAR greater degree. And, they often made their music with a single, found instrument, left over from a war, not with huge production teams.

Michael Jackson was extremely talented, but I stick by what I said above.

Kris I agree with you 100% but jazz does not sell.
It has not since the 60’s. The sales are in the low hundreds of thousands per CD and that’s for well known artist. Jazz can not compete with pop music and the money and marketing behind it. Also you can’t compare the swing band era to the rock and roll era and now the pop era, which Jackson is the first mega star. The whole way media and marketing play into this equation has to be included.

Louis Armstrong was and still is one of the greatest as is Ellington, Mingus, Parker and so on.

I’m not sure how many have ever seen this it’s from a 1941 film called Hellzapoppin’ Swing and despite the stereotyping of African Americans, the music and the dancing is out of this world.

Frankie Manning who died in May of this year, he’s the guy in the overalls dancing at the end of what has to be one of the best jazz dancing sequences ever filmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0BHxhUnokU&feature=related

I forgot, in the film link I posted that’s Slim Gaillard, (vooty!)piano and guitar and Slam Stuart on bass.

Otherwise known as Slim an Slam…

Slim Gaillard wrote a dictionary of jive, which is not hilarious as in full of wit, it is also a written history of period through langauge.

Sorry for to many posts.

It’s called, Slim Gaillard’s Vout-O-Reenee Dictionary.

Now get me an orange soda O’routee…

Regardless of what happened later in his life Micheal Jackson was one of the greatest singers and dancers of all time.

Thanks Putney Swope for the YOUTUBE link! The music and dancing are SUPERLATIVE! AND, you’re RIGHT: the “storyline” for the clip is a priceless example of what I was saying earlier about the socio/cultural/political context that the early jazz greats, men & women, musicians and dancers, lived in and transcended!

Here’s a YouTube clip on some of the early sources of the Moonwalk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxZcLWAmdco

That was great. It’s plain to see that Jackson was very in tune with his show biz history. It’s obvious that he got all this stuff from James Brown and old musicals as well as the greats from the forties. JB is all over his early stuff.

Was MJ one of the greatest of all time? Yes and no.

Those Lindy hoppers would give him a run for his money, as would Astaire in their prime. Can’t forget Gene Kelly.

I had to watch that Hellzapoppin clip about five times.
It’s so infectious, man those people could dance.

***** Regardless of what happened later in his life Micheal Jackson was one of the greatest singers and dancers of all time. *****

If you keep him inside the genre of “POP”, I won’t argue.

*****I had to watch that Hellzapoppin clip about five times.
It’s so infectious, man those people could dance.*****

Yes, I watched the clip you posted in youtube, they were wonderful for that period of time. At times, I thought I was watching WWF (wrestling), haha…..

Dance has being inspired by oldies, then evolved, now we see much more sophisticated body control dance. Like everything else, all performing or visual art are inspired by people before people, and whoever made it big and famous most likely would take credits for. This kind of things goes on and on over thousands of years throughout human history.

MJ uses his moonwalk to go with his music, make them theatrical, anytime when someone uses old ideas and repackage them into new sensation, it is considered “innovation”, and that’s what MJ has accomplished.

I hate to disagree with you here, but those dancers were doing very sophisticated dance moves, you could not see the partly because they were moving at a tempo so fast that it was hard to see. Those dancers were hot for anytime period.

When a dancer of the caliber of Baryshnikov states that Fred Astaire was one of the best dancers in the world ever, I’m going believe him.

These dancers were part of that zeitgeist, and just because dancers now ‘pop’ does not mean that it’s more sophisticated. It is true that the training has gotten better so you’ll have better trained dancers. The amazing thing is those dancers were for the most part naturals they came up from clubs and shows. The training was minimal compared to what we have today.

Hip hop dancing can be amazing and in some ways the Lindy Hop was the street dance of that period, as it developed through the music halls and clubs. It was an African American dance as well, the white big bands of the day did not play as fast until this thing became a fad. By then it was already kind of dead.
Duke Ellignton’s band use to play dance competitions.

OK I just turned on the TV and every major network is covering Jackson’s funeral as if he was some kind of statesman. What a joke, and Brian Williams and all those other talking heads are now on the level of Diane Sawyer and tabloid media. Disgusting really.

I love how people ask, “What did he ever do for anyone? What is his legacy”…

Biggest Selling Album Of All Time – Guinness Book Of World Records
Michael Jackson’s “Thriller” Album is the biggest selling album of all time, with over 50 million copies sold worldwide. Thriller is also the biggest selling U.S album with sales of 25 million copies.

80’s Most #1 Hits
By The End of the 1980’s Michael Jackson had more #1 hits than any other artist for the decade.

Michael Awards
Michael has more awards than any other artist.

Entertainer Of The Decade
With the #1 (Thriller) and #2 (Bad) ranked albums in the world Michael was the 1980’s Entertainer Of The Decade.

Most Grammy Awards – Guinness Book Of World Records
Michael won a record breaking 8 Grammy Awards in 1984, more than any other artist in one year.

Largest Contracts – Guiness Book Of World Records
$890 million (Sony Music) Contract, with prospective earnings of $1 billion.

Greatest Audience – Guiness Book Of World Records
The highest-ever viewership was 133.4 million viewers watching the NBC transmission of Super Bowl XXVII on June 31, 1993. Michael was spotlighted during the half-time peformance.

Highest-Paid Commercial Spokesperson – Guiness Book Of World Records
Pepsi Cola paid Michael Jackson $12 million to do 4 TV commercials.

Bad Tour – Guinness Book Of World Records
Michael Jackson’s world tour brought in a record gross revenue of over $124 million during September 1987-December 1988.

100 Million Records
Michael has sold over 100 million singles and albums outside of the U.S.

Billboard Charts
Michael Jackson is the first person in the 37 year history of the chart to enter at # 1, with his single “You Are Not Alone”. Michael broke his previous redord held by his single “Earth Song” which debuted at #5.

Biggest Selling Video
Michael Jackson’s “The Making Of Thriller” is the biggest selling video to be released by an artist.

Billboard “Hot 100″ Singles Chart
Most #1 Hits by Male Artist (13)

#1 Debuts
Michael’s “Bad”, “Dangerous”, and “HIStory” albums all debuted at #1.

Consecutive #1 Singles
Jackson 5 were the first group to ever have four consecutive #1 singles.

#1 On Charts
In 1983 Michael became the first artist to simultaneously hold the number one spots on Billboard’s rock albums and rock singles charts, as well as the R&B albums and singles charts.

First Video
Michael Jackson was the first black artist to have a video aired on MTV.

hmmm…..

The self-proclaimed “King of Pop” passes, and so begins an incessant period of memorials and retrospectives on MJ’s “art” and his influence on contemporary pop culture. WBUR’s On Point cannot contain itself; on the day after his passing — June 26th — ‘BUR devotes an entire hour segment to memorializing the “pop icon.”

Some eleven days after MJ’s passing, July 6th, 2009, arguably, the 20th century’s most controversial US executive-level office veteran, Robert S. MacNamara, passes. Why Arguably? – because one could easily make the point that MacNamara’s decisions under both JFK and LBJ during his tenure as Secretary of Defense from 1961 – 1968 are still today rippling through the fabric of time and profoundly affecting every living US citizen. Yet, nary a word from On Point on MacNamara’s passing and the rippling effect of his executive-level actions durng the Vietnam War.

Those who accuse the the mainstream media (MSM) of attempting to lull US citizens into becoming a docile & apathetic populace by means of a constant barrage of “infotainment” are themselves often tainted with the name “conspiracy theorists” — a pejorative epithet that ultimately fails to convince against “infotainment’s” true intent.

Still, one hopes that progams such as WBUR’s On Point will step outside the MSM infotaimnent assault, and offer its astute listeners at least an hour of what it deserves — a MacNamara/Vietnam retrospectrive that serves to ring through ‘BUR’s silence thus far.

I love how people ask, “What did he ever do for anyone? What is his legacy”…

Biggest Selling Album Of All Time – Guinness Book Of World Records
Etc
Etc

Yeah, well. I hear Walmart sells a lotta stuff, too.

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.
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No matter, I’m sure MJ did do a lot of good for people.

offer its astute listeners at least an hour of what it deserves — a MacNamara/Vietnam retrospectrive that serves to ring through ‘BUR’s silence thus far.

I second that!

offer its astute listeners at least an hour of what it deserves — a MacNamara/Vietnam retrospective that serves to ring through ‘BUR’s silence thus far.

I’ll vote for that as well. Considering that Obama seems to be falling into the same trap that LBJ did in regards to Afghanistan.

As for Jackson, enough already, he’s passed and is almost buried. The media was out of control with this.
I don’t think the Pope would have gotten this much coverage. This was an example of how shameless the media can be, they milked this thing to death.

If ones life is so shallow that one needs to live vicariously through celebrities it seems that one should, get a life.