wow 2 gop presidential hopefuls cheating on there wife’s. always funnier when those who act like there morally superior to others get busted for being immoral. esp one who wanted Clinton to be impeach for getting a b to the j.

what was even funnier was listening to rush, and talk radio make excuses for them for doing the same they railed against Edwards for.

repubs and foxes crying about abc health care program and why there couldn’t place the illogical, crap ads on there. saying abc a mouth piece for obama cause of explaining his policy yet foxs was a 24 hour one for bush

here is a exp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt8BJSNmgL4&feature=related

The passing of Michael Jackson is unfortunate for his family and those who remember the real person that once existed.

Unfortunately, this will not be the passing of the American media phenomenon of creating myth through the elevation of performance talent beyond its reasonable zenith.

Jackson was a top selling music celebrity, who created nothing more than the “Moon Walk.” He wrote none of his hit songs, he neither arranged, nor produced the sound of his music. This wholly created performer was developed through his father, then Quincy Jones, and finally became a bizarre player in the show demanded by fans through the media.

Granted his performance was among the best that ever graced a stage, but the media stoked adulation created an entity that transcended usual celebrity.

The irony is that the fantasy bubble in which Jackson sequestered himself could not evade the reality of the lifestyle he lived. He thought that anything he wanted he could have whether in gaudy furnishings or children, yet died $400 million dollars in debt in spite of the massive wealth he acquired through his own music and ongoing residuals from when he owned the rights to Beatle songs.

So the media will see him out, broadcasting and pontificating on the genuine outpouring of sadness for a mythical figure that they created.

Sounds like a good panel, I’ll definitely catch the podcast.. Appreciate that you’re mixing it up — Karen Tumulty and Michael Gerson have had their days.

Please Mike, your tired partisan rankings add little. People cheat and people with power attract opportunities. It is not our nature to have only one nature despite your quaint ethical superiority. I’m all for crying out hypocrisy on both sides but who really cares?

South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford’s actions prove he is not fit for office. It’s not the fact that he had, or is having an affair. He left the state of South Carolina for five days. This was done without telling anyone so he could go tangoing in Argentina with his mistress.

This kind of behavior is not acceptable for a head of state and is irresponsible and selfish. He put his personal life ahead those of the people who elected and entrusted him with the welfare of the state. If Sanford has any sense of decency left he would resign. It seems as of today anyway, he does not. The other issue is he used state funds for personal use and pleasure. I hope that’s an issue in South Carolina.

The passing of Michael Jackson is just an excuse for the media to avoid the issues for the next few days. Yeah he was a big star at one time. Christopher for what it’s worth he did write some of his songs, but your right it was Quincy Jones who made those hit albums and in turn made Jackson a huge hit. Now there’s talent, Quincy Jones.

On music: it is only after Bob Dylan that singer/performers wrote their own material. So, if you think the only talent is writing songs, then you believe there was never a worthy singer/performer prior to Bob Dylan. You believe they created nothing. You believe Pavarotti created nothing.

During the pres. election Obama said he wouldn’t raise taxes on people earning $250,000 or less, yet Obama is pushing hard for “Cap and trade” which is nothing more than a energy and gas tax. Raising taxes when the economy is tanking? You don’t have to a degree from Harvard to know that Obama’s “Cap and Trade” is a jobs-killer.

Bessie Smith
Louis Armstrong (wrote music)
Billie Holiday (she did write a few tunes)
Ella Fitzgerald
Sarah Vaughan
Anita O’Day
Cris Conners
Frank Sinatra
Tony Bennett

A few singers who for the most part did not write their own songs.

jeff,

what tried is to hear these people talk about morals, why marriage is scared, so gays cant get married, rail against they perceive not moral normally based on there religious beliefs, or abstinence only, and get go out and do the opposite.

otherwise i would have alot more empathy for them cause like u said people mess up, but when u run on such morals and demonize others for lack there of you are going to fall hard and long.

its important to point this out since there elected officials, who get elected based on such false morals, who has the possibility to create laws/rules governing such morals that turns out they themselves dont follow.

partisan of course i make no attempt to hide it. when i see some moderate republicans ill sing some praise for them, but as u can see along with most the country there really arent any in the leadership. we still have elected republican officials trying to pass laws saying u gotta bring ur birth Cert with u so people can physically see it cause they think obama is not a u.s. citizen.

only moderates ones i seen who have been demonized by the gop is Colan P., Ron P, Snow, other senator from maine, the one that switched to a dem. house reps are rank and file.

plus the idea a married governor would leave his post to bang some chick most likely on the tax payers dime is something that should be frown upon least that is my take on it.

Mark Sanford’s “infidelities” are orthogonal to his fitness for office, be it the governorship of South Carolina or presidency of the USA.

But the incongruity his current behavior and his sanctimonious hypocrisy with respect to Bill Clinton and John Edwards demonstrate a deep lack of moral character. I wouldn’t trust him as dogcatcher, and he should have the decency to disappear forever, instantly.

Also, he keeps invoking “God’s law”. If he goes against his wife, fine and well – it’s between them. If by his own admission he goes against _God_, he vitiates any value he has to anyone: I don’t want God mad at me for defending Mr. Sanford.

That begs the question of how he knows so much about God – I’m a lot older and I sure don’t. Some years ago, an OnPoint episode included a careful definition of the term(*) for speaking beyond one’s knowledge. We’re back to that.

___
* BS

The people in Iran could induce change as they did before during the Shah’s reign. Acting as dissidents to the state the public refused to pay for anything the government supplied (electricity, water, gas) slowing revenue severely.

Just a quick note to welcome Jacki Lyden and say that I’m a long time fan of yours. You’re doing wonderfully Jacki and Tom Ashbrook’s shoes are tough to fill.

But Jack…Americans have already elected a serial adulterer…and loved him…it’s actually Mr Clinton’s legacy.

I don’t care what a politician does in his personal life unless he is a hypocrite like these latest two “family values” Republicans. Their old testament favorite Leviticus says thay should be stoned.

Is Tom OK?

It is summer time, Tom is surfing some waves in Hawaii, dude!

Let’s just elect a single politician and see how much they can score.

Value add tax?! National sales tax?! The American public won’t stand for it. And I assure that the people of the State of New York who, depending on the area, already have to pay over 8 cents per dollar in sales tax will go into open rebellion is anyone tries to impose a VAT on us!

The Iran election was deliberately manipulated to flush out disloyal elements. Now they’re in the open and can be suppressed or killed.

The more extreme followers of Khamenei believe that _no_ popular support is necessary or has value: the Supreme Leader has the mandate of heaven, and anyone who opposes him opposes God. Death alone is too good for such traitors; they must be publicly humiliated first. Watch official Iranian media and you’ll catch my drift.

Of course, we don’t really need God for these purification rituals. Check out Stalin’s purges, the displacement of Papadopoulos by Ioannides in Greece (1974), other “fun” dictatorships. I bet the succession ritual in Iran will converge on the offspring of Ali Khamenei, a la North Korea. [I didn't think it up - a wise Iranian (not Latina) told me.]

That’s not the worst part – we all suffer, we all die, Allah allocates Paradise and Hell as _He_ sees fit. The worst part is that once the Iranian government proves itself unaccountable and “crazy”, Israeli trigger fingers will develop a yet more fearful itch.

I find that heartbreaking. The people in both countries have nothing against each other. I speak from experience, which I fear will devolve into the recollection of things dead and gone.

[...] [...]

******So the media will see him out, broadcasting and pontificating on the genuine outpouring of sadness for a mythical figure that they created.*******

Interesting way to view his legacy, and partially true too.

Let’s give Michael a little break now that he is gone. Let’s all remember that beside his fame and flaws he was just one of us. He was just like you and me and Sanford and Gingricht and Folley and Bush and Cheney…. tragically human!

i found this from democracy now,

about pakistan

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/24/pakistani_opposition_politician_imran_khan_on

if anyone like to listen to

I will agree that Gov. Sanford should step down simply because repairing his marriage is now the priority. We should hold to a higher standard and I give him credit for publically apologizing for his affair. Yet! in this dog eat dog America of politics,hypocracy is abounding. We have heard so far how terrible his actions are and he has committed “Adultery”, and such a disgrace on America and the people of South Carolina. Yet, how can we judge him on this terrible sin he has committed when Americans and America is enbracing and legalizing a just as equally wrong sin, Yes! Sin! For those who care, read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. I did not set this rule, but God did, the same God America is trying so hard to get rid of.

This was a TERRIBLE PANEL DISCUSSION!!–Jacki Lyden all but ignored the two other panelists in favor of the editor of the Financial Times for 30 MINUTES!!! The issue of Iran is important, but it needed to be balanced with all the other significant issues of the week. Jacki Lyden said that she had visited Iran a total of 5 times in the past, and from that experience, she might consider herself a “specialist” in that area, but it was excruciating to witness the valuable minutes go by, excluding the other guests, devoting everything to the monologue/dialogue between her and Roula Khalaf.

VAT a “hidden” or “sly” tax? To me, it seems like a much more transparent tax than most others in the U.S. tax code.

With the Dems in power you have not seen nothing yet. Taxes are coming and we will pay in more ways than income taxes. Get ready America, you asked for it and you are going to get it.

[...] Here is a link to the NPR show. [...]

“With the Dems in power you have not seen nothing yet. Taxes are coming and we will pay in more ways than income taxes. Get ready America, you asked for it and you are going to get it.”

Geez, Americans having to pay their fair share and not just spend, spend, spend? Why? Why? Why? Why can’t we just never grow up and never be socially responsible???

Here is for paying my fair share! I have worked very hard for 40 years and have sacrificed much in order to set aside money for retirement. Here is for being socially responsible! Nancy Pelosi wants to put a windfall tax on my retirement income, for what reason you ask? In her own words,”We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemloyed and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants (more in the neighborhood of 20 million)in our country who need our help along with the millions of unemployed minorities. Stock market windfall profits could go a long way to gurantee these people the standard of living they would like to have as Americans.” Wake up America! The Dems are out to secure their voting base by giving them the farm. I owe illegals nothing but a invitation to go home, but why leave when everything is free! Unfair, unfair, unfair! Reward those who break the law and punish me for playing fair. We pay enough in taxes to care for our own needy, not the entire world.

“I have worked very hard for 40 years and have sacrificed much in order to set aside money for retirement.”

America provided you with the opportunity to live free, work and earn money for 40 years.

“In her own words,”We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemloyed and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants (more in the neighborhood of 20 million)in our country who need our help along with the millions of unemployed minorities.”

Yes, they must die on the streets. America is an exclusive country club. That is what America is all about.

“The continuing practice of hiring unauthorized workers has been referred to as ‘the magnet for illegal immigration.’”

So, really rich republicans want to prosper either way. By hiring illegal immegrants or by demanding they pay no taxes that could end up going towards keeping the lowest in America from living in slum-poverty conditions. They create the illegal immigration problem and then complain that it exists. Money for their pockets is all they care about.

“Illegal hiring has not been prosecuted aggressively in recent years: between 1999 and 2003, according to the Washington Post, “work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service. [64] Major employers of illegal immigrants have included:

Wal-Mart. In 2005 Wal-Mart agreed to pay $11 million to settle a federal investigation that found hundreds of illegal immigrants were hired by Wal-Mart’s cleaning contractors.

Swift & Co.. In December 2006, in the largest such crackdown in American history, U.S. federal immigration authorities raided Swift & Co. meat-processing plants in six U.S. states, arresting about 1,300 illegal immigrant employees.

Tyson Foods. This company has also been accused of actively importing illegal labor for its chicken packing plants; However, the jury acquitted the company after evidence was presented that Tyson went beyond mandated government requirements in demanding documentation for its employees.”

Pelosi said we need to help an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants with money from windfalls from wall street, did she really say this in context to a better distribution of wealth? I hope not.

I’m all for raising wages and lowering the CEO’s pay and absurd dividends to stockholders however illegal immigrants have knowingly come here to work and break our laws. If I went to Sweden or Canada to work illegally I would not expect to be treated as a citizen, kind of goes with the territory.

I know that a lot of illegal immigrants do work most Americans do want to do. So the question is how do we fix this? Maybe it just can’t be fixed, but there has to be some kind of way to do this.

As taxes, well I don’t like paying them but I also like having paved roads and my garbage picked up.

You know if Bush raised taxes instead of giving away huge tax breaks to the wealthy during a war maybe things would not be so bad as they are now. Blaming everything on the democrat’s is a bit much as they are trying to fix what the republicans have worked very hard breaking. That said, I still do not trust to many of the dems.
Obama is turning into a huge disappointment on so many progressive fronts that I have basically given up on him. He will not be getting my vote in 2012.

Read this and weep. The Obama team is Bush II on the economy. I did not vote for this, I did not vote for a continuation of Bush policies on the economy or anything else for that matter.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090624_foreclosure_fiasco/

There will come a day after all this fan-fare and promises of great things for our country that we will all stand face to face and ask the question. Who is going to pay for all this? Expanded Consciousness states that illegal immigration is being taken care of with arrest and such. The problem is like stirring up a hornets nest and trying to arrest the onslaught with a fly swatter. Sure you can take care of a few, but there are millions coming at you at a time. You will be overwhelmed. Check the data on what this problem has cost the US. Go to this site to see the swarming masses of illegals coming to America. http://www.immigrationcounters.com/ The problem I have with illegal immigration is the word ILLEGAL. I was taught that meant breaking the law. If I do something illegal I am in violation of the laws of this country, meaning I do not respect,care or fear the lawgiver. This is what our country is becoming.

Ya’ll comment, but ignore my post.

“If you build it … they will come” is the lesson here.

I’ll quote my own post:

“The continuing practice of hiring unauthorized workers has been referred to as ‘the magnet for illegal immigration.’” [Understand that thoroughly!].

“So, really rich republicans want to prosper either way. By hiring illegal immigrants and by demanding that they (Republicans) pay no taxes that could end up going towards keeping the lowest in America from living in slum-poverty conditions. THEY create the illegal immigration problem and then complain that it exists. Money for their pockets is all they care about.”

Look, it is simple. If you want the act of eating a loaf of bread to be illegal, then it only makes sense that your righteousness indignation over the illegal act be directed to those that make and leave out the loaf of bread and not towards the starving person who comes along and eats it.

You act as if rich fat cats come from other countries to steal money. The rich fat cats are the Republican business owners who hire, exploit and ATTRACT immigrants here, for the sole reason of fattening their own wallets. Period.

You love focusing on the word “illegal,” then focus on the rich Republican fat cats committing their illegal acts!

It’s always easier to persecute the weak though, huh?

It’s always easier and more shallow to attend to the symptom and not the root cause.

Keep complaining about and treating the rash that the cancer causes and not the cancer itself. Great plan.

And by the way, any illegal immigrant, who rich Republican fat cat business owners attract here, that has any kids on American soil, then has an American citizen in the family. And no, we should not deport American citizens. And we should not break apart families and try to deport the parents and keep American citizen kid here, in their country. Absurd!

“Expanded Consciousness states that illegal immigration is being taken care of with arrest and such.”

Woa! Don’t go Washington on me. Keep things in context. I stated the opposite:

“’Illegal hiring has not been prosecuted aggressively in recent years: between 1999 and 2003, according to the Washington Post, ‘work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Major employers of illegal immigrants have included:

Wal-Mart …
Swift & Co …
Tyson Foods …”

Therefore, I stated that illegal immigration is not being reduced, only because Bush’s policies reduced enforcement of illegal HIRING by rich Republican fat cats business owners.

This whole thing is like prostitution and illegality. If you think that prostitution is a horrible illegal act are you going to direct all your ire at the destitute individual turning to prostitution because they have entered “survival mode”? Or are you going to go after the demand-side of the equation and direct your attention and ire at the slimeball getting off on their own pleasure while the other performs a degrading act?

Hmmm? Well?

Expand your consciousness, people.

Expanded Consciousness like a lot of self righteous people
you make assumptions about people you don’t know.

Illegal immigration is a complex problem. I don’t support the republican party on any level but to put the blame on them for this is not only misguided it is simply not the whole picture. Remember NAFTA, that was Clinton’s doing and it put a million Mexican farmers out of work after American corn growers dumped real cheap corn on their market. Well where do think some of those million farmers ended up?

You seem like a smart chap, but your self righteous bend is a bit much. NAFTA has been a disaster for Mexico’s agricultural businesses and to a lot of US businesses as well. I think the only country that benefited from this is Canada and corporations.

As an independent by principle, I don’t divide everything along party lines. In this debate, I was responding to david’s original comment that attacked the Dems:

“Wake up America! The Dems are out to secure their voting base by giving them the farm. I owe illegals nothing but a invitation to go home, but why leave when everything is free! Unfair, unfair, unfair! Reward those who break the law and punish me for playing fair. We pay enough in taxes to care for our own needy, not the entire world.

Posted by david, on June 29th, 2009 at 8:32 pm EDT”

No expert on the immigration debate, this thread caused me to learn a little more about it. I found the most interesting the two quotes “the continuing practice of hiring unauthorized workers has been referred to as ‘the magnet for illegal immigration.’” and the fact that “’Illegal hiring has not been prosecuted aggressively in recent years: between 1999 and 2003, according to the Washington Post, ‘work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.’”

It therefore seems to me, if the goal is to reduce illegal immigration, the focus should be to prosecute and prevent US company owners from hiring their cheap source of labor. If there are no jobs for them here, they won’t come. And not to say that the Democrats want give away the country by applying tax dollars to making sure that no one within this country lives in slum-poverty conditions. I don’t think we should cry that we reward illegal immigrants who break the law. We’re clearly rewarding US companies. First and foremost, we should expect US citizens to uphold the law, shouldn’t we? Indefensible to turn a blind eye to the rewards companies get from their illegal acts and cry that illegal immigrants are being rewarded for doing illegal acts. One group is profiting millions and the other group we are just trying to keep out of slum-poverty conditions.

The NAFTA point is interesting and I welcome any more learning on the immigration issue.

But, the self-righteousness on evidence is in luring people here and then demonizing them as people who commit illegal acts, all the while turning a blind eye to the true “illegals” in this situation.

If I’m upset about my tax dollars going to services for illegal immigrants, then the solution is to lower the influx of illegal immigration. The way to do that isn’t to say, “if you come here you will die on the streets like animals, so be too scared to come here,” but to make business owners too scared to keep drawing bees to the honey.

So, whichever party goes after those companies is addressing the immigration problem correctly in my book. Nothing self-righteous about that view.