“Wake up America! The Dems are out to secure their voting base by giving them the farm. I owe illegals nothing but a invitation to go home, but why leave when everything is free! Unfair, unfair, unfair! Reward those who break the law and punish me for playing fair. We pay enough in taxes to care for our own needy, not the entire world.

Posted by david, on June 29th, 2009 at 8:32 pm EDT”

No expert on the immigration debate, this thread caused me to learn a little more about it. I found the most interesting the two quotes “the continuing practice of hiring unauthorized workers has been referred to as ‘the magnet for illegal immigration.’” and the fact that “’Illegal hiring has not been prosecuted aggressively in recent years: between 1999 and 2003, according to the Washington Post, ‘work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.’”

It therefore seems to me, if the goal is to reduce illegal immigration, the focus should be to prosecute and prevent US company owners from hiring their cheap source of labor. If there are no jobs for them here, they won’t come. And not to say that the Democrats want give away the country by applying tax dollars to making sure that no one within this country lives in slum-poverty conditions. I don’t think we should cry that we reward illegal immigrants who break the law. We’re clearly rewarding US companies. First and foremost, we should expect US citizens to uphold the law, shouldn’t we? Indefensible to turn a blind eye to the rewards companies get from their illegal acts and cry that illegal immigrants are being rewarded for doing illegal acts. One group is profiting millions and the other group we are just trying to keep out of slum-poverty conditions.

The NAFTA point is interesting and I welcome any more learning on the immigration issue.

But, the self-righteousness on evidence is in luring people here and then demonizing them as people who commit illegal acts, all the while turning a blind eye to the true “illegals” in this situation.

If I’m upset about my tax dollars going to services for illegal immigrants, then the solution is to lower the influx of illegal immigration. The way to do that isn’t to say, “if you come here you will die on the streets like animals, so be too scared to come here,” but to make business owners too scared to keep drawing bees to the honey.

So, whichever party goes after those companies is addressing the immigration problem correctly in my book. Nothing self-righteous about that view.

Illegal immigration is a complex problem. I don’t support the republican party on any level but to put the blame on them for this is not only misguided it is simply not the whole picture. Remember NAFTA, that was Clinton’s doing and it put a million Mexican farmers out of work after American corn growers dumped real cheap corn on their market. Well where do think some of those million farmers ended up?

You seem like a smart chap, but your self righteous bend is a bit much. NAFTA has been a disaster for Mexico’s agricultural businesses and to a lot of US businesses as well. I think the only country that benefited from this is Canada and corporations.

Hmmm? Well?

Expand your consciousness, people.

Woa! Don’t go Washington on me. Keep things in context. I stated the opposite:

“’Illegal hiring has not been prosecuted aggressively in recent years: between 1999 and 2003, according to the Washington Post, ‘work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Major employers of illegal immigrants have included:

Wal-Mart …
Swift & Co …
Tyson Foods …”

Therefore, I stated that illegal immigration is not being reduced, only because Bush’s policies reduced enforcement of illegal HIRING by rich Republican fat cats business owners.

“If you build it … they will come” is the lesson here.

I’ll quote my own post:

“The continuing practice of hiring unauthorized workers has been referred to as ‘the magnet for illegal immigration.’” [Understand that thoroughly!].

“So, really rich republicans want to prosper either way. By hiring illegal immigrants and by demanding that they (Republicans) pay no taxes that could end up going towards keeping the lowest in America from living in slum-poverty conditions. THEY create the illegal immigration problem and then complain that it exists. Money for their pockets is all they care about.”

Look, it is simple. If you want the act of eating a loaf of bread to be illegal, then it only makes sense that your righteousness indignation over the illegal act be directed to those that make and leave out the loaf of bread and not towards the starving person who comes along and eats it.

You act as if rich fat cats come from other countries to steal money. The rich fat cats are the Republican business owners who hire, exploit and ATTRACT immigrants here, for the sole reason of fattening their own wallets. Period.

You love focusing on the word “illegal,” then focus on the rich Republican fat cats committing their illegal acts!

It’s always easier to persecute the weak though, huh?

It’s always easier and more shallow to attend to the symptom and not the root cause.

Keep complaining about and treating the rash that the cancer causes and not the cancer itself. Great plan.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090624_foreclosure_fiasco/

I’m all for raising wages and lowering the CEO’s pay and absurd dividends to stockholders however illegal immigrants have knowingly come here to work and break our laws. If I went to Sweden or Canada to work illegally I would not expect to be treated as a citizen, kind of goes with the territory.

I know that a lot of illegal immigrants do work most Americans do want to do. So the question is how do we fix this? Maybe it just can’t be fixed, but there has to be some kind of way to do this.

As taxes, well I don’t like paying them but I also like having paved roads and my garbage picked up.

You know if Bush raised taxes instead of giving away huge tax breaks to the wealthy during a war maybe things would not be so bad as they are now. Blaming everything on the democrat’s is a bit much as they are trying to fix what the republicans have worked very hard breaking. That said, I still do not trust to many of the dems.
Obama is turning into a huge disappointment on so many progressive fronts that I have basically given up on him. He will not be getting my vote in 2012.

America provided you with the opportunity to live free, work and earn money for 40 years.

“In her own words,”We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemloyed and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants (more in the neighborhood of 20 million)in our country who need our help along with the millions of unemployed minorities.”

Yes, they must die on the streets. America is an exclusive country club. That is what America is all about.

“The continuing practice of hiring unauthorized workers has been referred to as ‘the magnet for illegal immigration.’”

So, really rich republicans want to prosper either way. By hiring illegal immegrants or by demanding they pay no taxes that could end up going towards keeping the lowest in America from living in slum-poverty conditions. They create the illegal immigration problem and then complain that it exists. Money for their pockets is all they care about.

“Illegal hiring has not been prosecuted aggressively in recent years: between 1999 and 2003, according to the Washington Post, “work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service. [64] Major employers of illegal immigrants have included:

Wal-Mart. In 2005 Wal-Mart agreed to pay $11 million to settle a federal investigation that found hundreds of illegal immigrants were hired by Wal-Mart’s cleaning contractors.

Swift & Co.. In December 2006, in the largest such crackdown in American history, U.S. federal immigration authorities raided Swift & Co. meat-processing plants in six U.S. states, arresting about 1,300 illegal immigrant employees.

Tyson Foods. This company has also been accused of actively importing illegal labor for its chicken packing plants; However, the jury acquitted the company after evidence was presented that Tyson went beyond mandated government requirements in demanding documentation for its employees.”

Geez, Americans having to pay their fair share and not just spend, spend, spend? Why? Why? Why? Why can’t we just never grow up and never be socially responsible???

about pakistan

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/24/pakistani_opposition_politician_imran_khan_on

if anyone like to listen to

Interesting way to view his legacy, and partially true too.