New surveys are out on the world’s most livable cities. The places you’d really like to be to raise a family, enjoy life, start a business, savor days and nights and, well, there’s hardly an American city in sight.
The top 25 from the Economist’s Intelligence Unit finds Vancouver, Canada at the top of the list with Vienna, Melbourne, Helsinki, Osaka close behind.
And not a single American city. Pittsburgh sneaks in at 29. Monocle magazine gives Zurich top honors. And Copenhagen, Tokyo. Only Honolulu makes it from the USA. What’s up?
This hour, On Point: livable cities, and where’s the USA?
You can join the conversation. Tell us what you think — here on this page, on Twitter, and on Facebook.
-Tom Ashbrook
Guests:
From London we’re joined by Tyler Brûlé, editor-in-chief of Monocle Magazine, and “Fast Lane” columnist for the Financial Times. He headed up Monocole’s “Quality of Life 2009″ survey, which lists Zurich, Copenhagen, Tokyo, Munich, and Helsinki as the top five cities.
From Los Angeles we’re joined by Joel Kotkin, author of “The City: A Global History.” He’s currently Presidential Fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University in Orange, CA, and a senior fellow at the New America Foundation. He’s also a columnist for Forbes, and editor of the site newgeography.com.
And from Santa Barbara we’re joined by Pico Iyer, travel writer and author of nine books, including “Video Night in Kathmandu” and “The Global Soul.” His piece for the New York Times, “The Joy of Less,” topped the New York Times most-emailed list last week. His newest book, just out in paperback, is “The Open Road: The Global Journey of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama.”
Here’s the Economist Intelligence Unit’s 2009 list, topped by Vancouver, Vienna, Melbourne, Toronto, and Perth.
Tags: cities, globalization, urban policy















*note I do not subscribe to this periodical nor have I read the article, so please take this with a grain of salt* But an American city follows a vastly different model of use from other cities around the globe. The “great” suburbanization and abandonment of central city districts departs wholly from the euro style of cities. I would further argue that Monocle also has a clearly euro bias. There are plenty of livable American cities for Americans, we have different expectations. Nothing wrong with the American or European model, we just have different expectations.
Posted by Glen, on June 18th, 2009 at 9:20 am EDTThink a little about what a typical American wants from for his home and surroundings and compare that to the aspirations of Monocle´s readers, and you can readily figure out why US doesn´t show up in Monocle´s list.
Posted by Raul de Brigard, on June 18th, 2009 at 9:55 am EDTDoes the phrase “America’s love affair with the automobile” ring a bell?
Posted by Sally, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:02 am EDTAmericans don’t “live,” we produce and are to continue to produce. Certainly, the other cities on the list are economic centers as well, but in America, material concerns are our MO. Enjoy life? Live it? I’ll do that at Starbucks on my way to the office.
Posted by Rahuldeep, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:10 am EDTThe term “Liveable” is a subjective one. In reality, the fact that there are people quite ALIVE and functioning in every city on Earth provides proof that defining “Liveable” is akin to defining Art: it’s largely a matter of taste.
Posted by Todd, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:14 am EDTThe federal and state governments have ignored the needs of cities in the US since the Interstate Highway system brought the white middle class and the wealthy to the suburbs. Much of this is about race and class.
Posted by Nancy Braus, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:14 am EDTI lived in Vienna for 4 months and am not surprised it is on the list. It is a WONDERFUL city.
Posted by Abigail, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:21 am EDTFrom what’s going on these days in Salt Lake City, I have to wonder how much our failed War on Drugs plays into our rankings. Here in SLC, property crime is as big as ever, and gang violence is on the rise. We’re tops in the nation for prescription drug abuse and we’re well-placed geographically for Mexican cartel violence to start leaking in. Dealers don’t even really try to be discreet anymore. If US drug policy didn’t make it such a lucrative industry, I doubt we’d be in half the mess we are.
Posted by Erin, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:22 am EDTMy wife and I just moved back to the U.S. after living for three years in Zurich. The public transit runs so frequently that you never feel yourself waiting for long at a stop, which leaves the impression that there is no penalty to choosing public transit. It is very common for people to take their swimming suits to work, so that they can jump in the river or lake after work. On the weekends, you can take a quick and inexpensive train ride to a hike through the Alps, and be back in your bed at night. At first, limited shopping on Sundays was frustrating, but one comes to appreciate the quality of life that this allows the working people of Zurich. Are there any U.S. cities that give its people all of this?
Posted by Jake Abbott, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:23 am EDTI find this survey to be tracking what’s livable for people making over 200k. How do cities in Australia and Hawaii rank well in terms of connectivity? You cannot get to these cities easily from anywhere in the developed world. This is nonsense published by a magazine that shills fashion tips for the elite- How about cities like Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, and Rochester, which are well connected, have great education systems, world class cultural institutions, and greater affordability than any of the cities in the top 29?
Posted by Matt, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:23 am EDTReading the comments of the other American listeners who think American life is about producing and not ‘living’ is quite depressing. Enjoying life does not exclude productivity. I have been living in Boston for 3 years now, and if anything, the time I have to spend to get from point A to point B is a major waste of time. Public transportation in this city is pathetic and the roads are overcrowded. My favorite American city is Portland, OR – it has a respectable public transport system, a low cost of living, beautiful surroundings, and mild temperatures.
Posted by Adeline, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:24 am EDTLarry,
I’m not sure if you’re being ignorant or sarcastic.
Granted, a lot of the cities included seem homogeneous in ethnicity, many are not.
Having traveled to Paris (#8) and Berlin, and having JUST returned from Barcelona (#15), Madrid (#12) and Lisbon (#25), I can tell you that these are extremely diverse cities full of people of African descent and many other backgrounds. These cities in particular reflect their colonial past in the demographics, food, etc. I think they’re more livable precisely due to their cosmopolitan attitudes.
And last, Pittsburgh is a WONDERFUL city, and not just because of Carnegie Mellon.
Posted by Doshi, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:27 am EDTWeird criteria…?! Zurich? Instead of homicide stats, how about measuing suicide rates (like the high suicide rates in Scandinavian cities, Tokyo, Vancouver)? Having grown up in Vancouver, 7 months a year of rain does not make for a high quality of life — no matter what other criteria are factored in!
Posted by Ellan Cates, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:27 am EDTI love Zurich for all of the reasons stated, and would love to find a way to get a job over there. Currently, one daughter is living in Geneva with her mother (who works for WHO); and, my oldest will be moving back over there this summer for her last two years of high school. However, prior to that, my oldest moved in with me after having lived in Bern for a couple of years and not liking it very much…
Posted by George Mumford, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:30 am EDTI think that even more important than the physical and financial characteristics of a ‘livable’ city is the mix of people who are able to live there should they choose to.
Diversity is paramount to achieving the mix of urban experiences that your guest speaks about. Cities are great because so often they bring individuals from an array of economic, social, racial, and ethnic backgrounds together in a space. Certainly elements of the built environment inform livability from this perspective– a sound public transportation system, a range of housing types, parks and recreation space, even some streetscape amenities– but i am skeptical about putting so much emphasis on the physical characteristics of a place and in turn deemphasizing the social dimensions of urban living.
I wonder how many of the great livable cities on your guest’s list are actually affordable to a range of people. I live in Boston and work in Lowell, Massachusetts as an urban planner; I’ve travelled to Zurich for vacation and although it was beautiful I’d choose the scrappy working class nature of a lowell over the gleaming financial district of a Zurich any day.
Posted by Courtney, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:35 am EDTThanks,
Courtney Knapp
Boston, MA
To have a real livable city , you need a good fast and affordable public transportation sytem that takes you anywhere you want to go …… metro systems are like the lungs of a city…..
Why can’t bus stops have solar panel shelters so they can be warm in the cold winters?
Posted by R.M., on June 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am EDTI grew up in Europe, mostly Germany, as a child of American parents who taught for the US Military School system. I came back to the US for university and since then have always felt split. I feel very much an American in history and political thinking, but in lifestyle — NOT. US cities lack the ease of transport of public transit and good bike paths, the joys of sidewalk cafes, and the richness of neighbors. Boston has many of these things — although not the good sidewalk cafes. The contrast when we were back in Berlin several years ago was amazing: hanging out in sidewalk cafes right in downtown where you could talk to each other because cars weren’t racing down the street! The quieter pace of pedestrian life allows me to feel internally quiet and more present in the moment. That to me is living life, rather than trying to get a life.
Posted by Sheila Fay, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am EDTI visited Basel and Zurich last year and they are wonderful cities for the very wealthy. Great public transportation, museums, food
Posted by Candy Lee, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am EDTHowever the big difference in the US is that we are multicultural. There really wasn’t a diversity of races and as an American born Chinese person, I was very often the only non-white in my field of vision. You have to consider whether life is good for all people and not just wealthy whites. Lots of servant class non-whites doesn’t make for diversity.
Another GREAT topic Tom.
I think the US failed to make the Top 10 of liveable cities because the mindset of most Americans is that the USA is the centre of the Universe so there’s no reason to improve anything, hence the reason most are outdated with transport systems, design, healthcare, etc.
I have lived in Vancouver, BC, New York City & Toronto and currently working on relocating to Sweden which seems liveable & culturally diverse.
Posted by Martina, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:40 am EDTI am a college student in Virginia with dreams of living in Europe. One of the major reasons why I do not wish to live in American cities is the violence. I want the ability to be an independent woman who can walk home, or take the metro or bus home, late at night with out fearing for my well-being. I also appreciate the ability to live without a car, which is not often a possiblity in the U.S. The public transportation in other countries affords me the ability to be green and healthier, as I bike or walk and use public transport.
Posted by Rebecca, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:42 am EDTThe key thing to remember here is that each of us has differing criteria regarding where we want to live. For some folks work is the key—can I find a job? For others, it’s climate. So in the end it’s the integration of all factors. Each of these surveys varies in its key factors being evaluated. Thus, for some the model of big highways and the open road which defines the US is very attractive! Phoenix, Texas’s cities, CA cities, etc. would rank quite high. And, ironically, when my family comes to visit us in Boston (from Germany), they love the US. On the other hand, would they want to live here? Probably not, because we’ve arranged ourselves inefficiently—it’s hard to get things done. If you live in suburbs, everything is dependent on cars. Very challenging.
I’m at point in life where I have to evaluate where I want to retire in the next 10-15 years (hopefully) and I’m looking very seriously at the European cities: their infrastructure is just better. The smaller German cities have so much to offer in terms of mass transit, connectivity, cultural amenities, etc. Their downside is climate. Switzerland is comparably nice, but they also have cold climates. You have to like cold and gray.
It sounds like NZ and Australia combine the European aspects with nice climates. Too bad that I can’t retire there!
Gee, Boston at ~#39 isn’t that bad is it Tom??? If we had a CA climate, we’d probably be the top US city!!!
Posted by Karl, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:42 am EDTDoshi, you need to read more about the current status of European countries and the growing animosity towards imigrants. The Africans in these cities are often marginalized and treated poorly. The prime example are the riots that took place in Paris.
Posted by Doc, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:44 am EDTSolar panels most likely will not proved enough power in the winter.
These long interruptions to raise money are getting very annoying.
Posted by Putney Swope, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:44 am EDTSome guy from a magazine named ‘Monocle’ is telling us why Europe is such a better place to live than the US. Just another day on NPR.
Posted by kc, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:44 am EDTMy question is just who do the magazines imagine to be living in these various cities? Most livable for whom?
Posted by James McKain, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:46 am EDTThe “problem” of American cities is that disinvestment has allowed them to deteriorate and become ghettos of the poor and minorities, and the problems they are today.
Racism was a large factor in “White flight” of the 50s and since African Americans were denied GI Bill, FHA loans, employment, etc… they became stuck in unfunded cities. When I hear people say they are afraid of cities I always still detect an undertone – there are too many African Americans.
Thus only in America are the cities considered the undesirable place to live.
Posted by Ian MacDonad, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:46 am EDTIn defense of Pittsburgh: (you knew it was coming).
1) ALL those great, world-class universities provide a vibrant, thriving life (intellectual, artistic and entertainment) that can’t be underestimated.
University of Pittsburgh…..Carnegie-Mellon University … Duquesne University …. etc. etc. etc.
2) The legacy of great “ethnic foods and eateries” is alive and doing quite well.
3) The vibrancy provided by those great three rivers, boating, water sports, etc. is thriving.
Sorry Mr. Iyor didn’t enjoy himself.
Posted by Bernie Simmons, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:48 am EDTHe probably was too dazzled to see.
##
American cities used to be the greatest. In the fifties there were no better cities. This is one conservative position that anyone who knows could agree with. But those who call themselves conservative don’t care to deal with this, because the real problem is inner city crime. And inner city crime has to do with a huge migration of impoverished southerners mostly black but also white who have never adjusted to city life, don’t know how to make a living in the city, haven’t a clue.
Posted by Ken Moore, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:49 am EDTTo deal with the crime problem the government has to invest in schools, not just classes, but behavior, really deal with it…..go to the home situation, lots of remedial courses. Guide the children of the poor to a better life. No one on the right wants to deal with this. I am a conservative, but not on the American right.
Having spent a lot of time in European cities, I can say one of the huge contrasts is that American cities are dominated and almost destroyed by cars and all the infrastucture devoted to them. When are we going to learn about REAL public transportation?
Posted by James, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:49 am EDTI think if you’re looking for livability in the US, then if you are looking in the cities, you are looking in the wrong place.
The suburbs are the best place to live in the US. There great communities, little friction, and they are close enough to the cities to provide a excitement.
Posted by Chris, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:52 am EDTI have also noticed that most of the countries where these cities are do not have the population demands that the U.S. does. I have only heard mention of one city from the ten most populated countries.
Posted by Ryan, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:57 am EDTI grew up in Pittsburgh in the 1960’s and 1970’s and have traveled widely since then. I still think Pittsburgh is a very livable city, except the winter weather is pretty dreary. Now I’d vote for Pine Island, Florida (population about 9,000) as the most livable small town!
Posted by Erika Foye, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:02 am EDTWhat?! Pittsburgh boring? How can any city with so many universities, museums, top notch symphony orchestra, sports teams be BORING? I’ve been there as a summer student and found the place a cultural oasis with friendly/helpful people to boot. I wish my new resident city of Buffalo would take the same track as Pittsburgh, because Western NY has even more to offer in the arts and architecture, is inexpensive living, and has none of the stresses (i.e. traffic) of larger cities.
Posted by Isernia, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:04 am EDTSo what, if there are more leaving the city than coming in whether through birth/death rates or because of economics. Makes it more liveable for those who do remain…both in Pittsburgh or Buffalo. These are both two rust-belt cities that have their charms and cost-of-living advantages. (I know because relatives live in Boston, Atlanta, and other mega-cities.)
All these rankings are ultimately rather subjective.
Posted by Evelyn, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:07 am EDTAs far as I am concerned, and having actually lived in a number of cities (Los Angeles, Boston, Brasilia, Rio de Janeiro, Oxford/london…) and currently in Geneva -which is a circus for Swiss standards-, I am actively looking at moving to Zurich, which is my favorite city ever. I would sacrifice a lot to settle there, a blend of nature and urban, efficiency and creativity….
Our town and city planning process is chaotic. without any vision of the future. We have an extreme ideology supporting property rights. A developer can buy up a tract of land and in MASS he can build anything that conforms to the zoning laws. However, whenever the projects is limited by the zoning laws, almost always cities and towns will accomodate the municipalities comply with the builders request for a speciaol permit to get around the zoning laws so as to increase the property values of the pro[perty and thus increase the town’s revenue without having to reaise everyone’s taxes.
What then is the point of having zoning laws if they are changed so easily. I thought the point of them is to dedicate a part of the city for specific uses
Regional planning is mysterious and clearly lacking.
Our utilities are on poles because it is cheaper than having them underground as they have them in Europe.
But a storm can bring down trees, break power lines and black out tens of tohousands of homes and businesses. How much does it cost the home when power is cut? Food in the freezer or fridge s thrown out because of spoilage, All restaurants must do the same.Offfices, retailers, manufacturer lose money for each such down time.
Our idea of planning is to level whole neighborhoods for urban renewal and and force residents and businesses to have to start over elsewhere and most likely without the benefit of the sense of community that used to exist. We replace a charming, one of a kind community with sterile Boxy or high rise buildings.
No need not promote bike lanes, and/or public transportation since our policy is to keep fuel prices at less than half of what other countries pay. There is no incentive to make responsibnle. ethical choices.
We have a cowboy mentality (Live free or die) regardless of the impact on our fellow citizens
Instead of rational planning, we have sprawl.
I know these comments are disjointed, and I could go on and on. but I will stop here.
Posted by Daniel Krasa, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:41 am EDTI just wanted to say that both your broadcasts today were absolutely outstanding. Thanks for all you and your colleagues do to present such a wide variety of interesting topics, day after day, week after week. I am totally hooked on your show and Michel Martin’s “Tell Me More,” which I listen to on WNNZ, on the AM dial, in western Massachusetts.
I’m never moved to call in, but I was totally amazed that Boston did not make the cut for a livable American city. Perhaps it’s the murder rate that caused it, like so many other American cities, to sink. But Boston is a walkable and, in its way, a bike-friendly city (at least along the Charles and the Fenway), with extensive and high-quality public transportation, to say nothing of excellent, varied restaurants and world-class cultural institutions: think of the MFA, the Gardner, Symphony Hall, the Fogg and the Peabody at Harvard.
I have been in Zurich on Sunday, and it is boring from a tourist’s point of view. But that has nothing to do with quotidian livability from the residents’ point of view. When people complain that it’s hard to buy things in Zurich on Sundays, it’s worth remembering that with Sundays off, those who work in supermarkets, department stores, shops, garages (the list goes on) have some free time to relax, decompress, be with family and friends, catch up or take a breather. To have a day when everything is quiet(er) adds enormously to EVERYONE’S quality of life across the social spectrum. And you learn how to make do or, to state the case more precisely, you learn to go with the flow and anticipate your needs on Friday or Saturday. To long for open stores on Sundays is linked to a culture of instant gratification that has less and less to recommend it.
Pittsburgh, in terms of its natural siting, is stunningly beautiful.
Posted by John Moore, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:57 am EDTTom:
Where can I find the list of “Best Cities”?
I don’t want to pay to by Monocle Magazine.
Thanks.
Sam
Posted by sam bielakl, on June 18th, 2009 at 12:10 pm EDTI read the comments here and that saved me time from listening to the program on cities. As stated, this is for the 200K plus crowd to croon about.
Posted by loninappleton, on June 18th, 2009 at 12:34 pm EDT@ Sam Bielakl -
You can read about Monocle’s “Best Cities” list at the Financial Times (http://tinyurl.com/lpn8×5), or watch a slideshow with their countdown here (http://tinyurl.com/kkhg45).
- producer Pien
Posted by Pien Huang, on June 18th, 2009 at 12:44 pm EDT…I just wish to add, regarding the argument that this topic (and such rankings) is only for the ‘wealthy’, that precisely quality of life in a given city depends on one’s ability to enjoy the city with an average income in that city.
Returning to my original point that Zurich is an example of a great city; an average income for Zurich’s standards provides an very good quality of life (re.: housing, entertaining, schooling, healthcare)…
while an average income for London’s standards, for instance, provides a rather poor quality of life.
London is only one of many cases of “cities for the wealthy”…this is why cities that can combine high standards in housing, health, education, environment, transport, social life, etc, and yet be accessible to its average or median income population, are rare and deserve to be noted.
Posted by Evelyn, on June 18th, 2009 at 1:55 pm EDTPico Tyer touched on the point that many American cities are overcrowded compared with those in Canada and Europe. Even irrespective of the attendant problem of high crime, having too many people is a detriment to the quality of life and especially so when a lot of these are in the underclass. This is not just a “happenstance” but a situation with identifiable causes that we choose to ignore. There will come a time when we will no longer be able to ignore them but it may be too late by then.
Posted by Eric, on June 18th, 2009 at 3:44 pm EDTIn regard to airports they are correct LAX is pretty bad but a lot of other cities have very nice and updated airports such as DFW, Portland, and Houston.
Posted by Stephen, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:05 pm EDTI live in NYC. I’m american. I’ve lived abroad. When I arrove at JFK – it’s really apalling. Gruff staff, terrible decor. What a welcome. I also am at the center of shaping the physical enviornment of NYC. I am an architect and work with the City agencies on developing NYC.agencies are very conservative. They w not easiy try anything new. Maintenance public safty, liability issues. What I see is that New York talks a good line- we are very modern, new york does it first. These people believe the hype. It is hype. I have lived abroad even the simplest thing such as throwing lawn chairs in Times Sq would have been with much more style and “intention” then what is currently out on Broadway. And I didn’t even notice this my German friend saw this. Go to other cities – even in the US and you will see more modern design – I am not suggesting that is the answer – but more creative than anything you really see here. Why is that? People are inherently conservative here. We want our material comforst. The other listener must have his Starbucks. (And developers at the front of eveything being the most conservative). New yorkers are more consevative than they would like to admit. And Americans are defensive when they read this rated list. The rest of the world offers viable wonderful suprising places to live. This conservative, sameness , predictabily we hold fast to here- is really keeping us down. We really believe our own hype.
Posted by susan, on June 18th, 2009 at 8:46 pm EDTThe feature article of June 14th The New York Times Magazine is titled “Infrastructure!.” It gives examples of U.S. infrastructure lagging behind the world. And another quality of life indicator mentioned in the article is, “approximately 1 in 100 American adults are in prison.”
Posted by Harumi, on June 18th, 2009 at 8:54 pm EDTThe US Secretary of Transporation is visiting European cities to study their mass transit facilities. Rather shocking! Don’t we Americans do everything better, at least according to the average Joe Six-Pack. Curiosity and willingness to learn about other places seems to elude so many of our fellow citizens. Travel outside the USA is rare and almost unpatriotic unless one has already visited all 50 States.
Posted by Isernia, on June 18th, 2009 at 9:09 pm EDTThis attitude of arrogance and triumphalism has long held back progress and change in this country. These chauvinistic attitudes seem particularly prevalent in the Deep South and Mid-West. Whenever my relatives who live in these parts of the country hear me praise some positive European “liveable” experience, they tell me “if it’s so great there, why don’t you move.” (Love it or leave it) They then go on to tell me about the large numbers of foreigners who are just dying to live here…as supposed prove that we have the best country in the world. When I retort that these are often the very illegals they want kept out, the discussion reaches an impass.
Glad I live in the Northeast. That region, along with the West Coast, form the only cospolitan areas of the USA. We’re elites according to the Rush Limbaugh crowd. I’m off to get my Starbucks latte and plan my next European trip.
How the hell did Honolulu end up being the USA’s “most livable city”? Being part of Hawaii, doesn’t it therefore have a ridiculous cost of living? Consequently, don’t many Hawaiians flee Hawaii for the mainland seeking a higher quality of life and better job opportunities?
Posted by Frank the Underemployed Professional, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:26 pm EDTI think alot has to do with natural geography
Vancouver is simply a spectacular place to be with the water and the mountains.
Crime as mentioned is a major factor – having lived abroad in a less developed city, and then in about 5 different cities in the US and a couple in Canada, plus a sibling who lived in Paris for many years – the consensus is that crime has a big impact on how people live, interact and even think about their own cities.
Posted by Smiley, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:42 pm EDTOh yeah, also the fact that the US is a driving Nation. I spent last summer in Canada and in using public transportation I felt so connected to the place and to my experience even though I was all alone during that visit.
Posted by Smiley, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:44 pm EDTAnyone been to Jackson, Mississippi lately – you would understand the dearth of American cities on that list. potholes!!! Amazing for a developed country.
Posted by Prius, on June 18th, 2009 at 10:48 pm EDTI recently moved back from Honolulu after living there for two years and am amazed that it made the list!
Yes, it has TheBus, which is a pretty good bus system. But most places on the island still don’t have recycling. Cost of living is very, very high. Homelessness is a major problem and the city’s solutions tend to be along the lines of moving all the homeless on one beach to a different one or spending thousands of dollars to replace all the benches with stools so that homeless people can’t sleep on them. I know that Monocle cited low crime as a reason for their choice, and yes, violent crimes are low; but property crime is quite high. The public school system has a lot of problems and the state is in a budget crisis. Monocle also said they looked at prevalence of chains versus locally-owned businesses–most of the local businesses in Honolulu died out long ago. You see exactly the same stores you see anywhere on the Mainland. And maybe Monocle did not care about the flying roaches, but they made the city less livable for me.
Honolulu has nice beaches (when they’ve kicked the homeless out). It’s an excellent place to visit as a tourist. From it’s inclusion on the list, I suspect that that’s all the Monocle list creators really cared about.
Posted by Abhyastamita, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:38 pm EDTWhat!?! Only one American city made it to (yet another list) of “liveable cities”? The audacity of these magazines to ignore American cities! Did I detect a bit of shock and horror from Mr Ashbrook? Boo hoo! (I’m so sick of the American exceptionalism of NPR.)
What a ridiculous program, at least for the general listener. It was definitely geared for the elite NPR listner/”consumer” who pledges: The kind of audience who can afford the glitz and glamour sold by your guest from Monocle magazine and can travel to the hot spots touted by the travel writer.
I kept wondering whether I was listening to a program on “liveable cities” or a travel show. Don’t you know there’s a difference between visiting a city on holiday and actually *living* there? Mr Kotkin was the only guest on today’s program who made the program interesting; the other two guests were la-dee-dah superficial. I expect better from On Poiont.
Posted by Jay, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:52 pm EDTI was disappointed there wasn’t more connection with the American mass motoring culture and how it increases stress and diminishes livability. Murder? More Americans die as a result of vehicle crashes than violent crime. And our streets aren’t hospitable to people, having become traffic sewers rather than rewarding and amenable public space. And how can you have a topic like this, and invite Joel Kotkin (!) and not, say, James Howard Kunstler?
Posted by Paul Dorn, on June 19th, 2009 at 12:00 am EDTThe idea that Tokyo is community oriented is preposterous. Several decades ago, perhaps. But life in Tokyo, and all of big-city Japan is so compartmentalized now… and it will only continue to become more so. Seriously, how many of your neighbors do you know in Tokyo?
Posted by L.A. Reese, on June 19th, 2009 at 12:37 am EDTAgreed. Pico is wrong wrong wrong about life in Japan.
Posted by Garth, on June 19th, 2009 at 12:39 am EDTPerhaps airports are some sort of cultural indicator, like how life expectancy can tell you all sorts of other things about a country?
All I know is I came back from Switzerland last summer and said: Everything I experienced in my first three minutes (in the airport) proved true of everywhere we went: It is clean, orderly, and beautiful. Also some of the world’s best pastries and truffles are within walking distance … sigh.
These studies are interesting. My feeling is we keep getting told as Americans we don’t have the money for good public transport or health care but … viola! The fed can materialize trillions for a big war or big financial institution. We shouldn’t put up with it. Americans cities are embarrassingly ugly, polluted, and non-navigable. However, we have a lot of great people. Who deserve better.
Posted by Maureen, on June 19th, 2009 at 2:42 am EDTSheesh; it must be hard to make a public radio show.
I just read through the comments and am dazed by how many listeners accused the producers and guests of snootiness. What is more classist than the increasingly stratified structure of wealth in the U.S.? Something like 60 percent of personal bankruptcies are now filed by individuals who can’t afford their healthcare bills. Do we really consider ourselves a model in sustainable living?
I agree with the person who noted the Swiss are making more money, hence Zurich may actually be in proportion to the average income.
But the guests did not suggest Americans all pack up and move there.
As the city planner who called in noted, this is a call for rethinking–not relocation. What is so offensive about this? Perhaps that there are actually studies not written for an American audience? Perhaps that we are not, as we like to think, the center of the universe … but one faulty nation among many? Perhaps the unfortunate realization that our deluded ideas of greatness are already viewed as obsolete by many?
Posted by Maureen, on June 19th, 2009 at 3:29 am EDTDoc, I don’t need to read about how Africans are treated in those countries because I am African American and on occasion I was given a crash course.
I was responding to the comment (that was deleted) that none of the cities on the list had “negroes.”
Posted by Doshi, on June 19th, 2009 at 10:28 am EDTLived in Vienna for 4 years….. amazing city…. it has so much variety and is NOT expensive to live there. This show brings to mind another where the future geography of the US was discussed on 2/23/09 and I recall that many US cities are facing extinction for the reasons that they are ultimately so poorly designed. Don’t get me wrong I live in San Diego now and like it but the absence of good public transportation is sorely felt.
Posted by roddy o'sullivan, on June 19th, 2009 at 1:13 pm EDTNon-United States cities are “precious” Mr Ashbrook? What could this mean? Pampered, finicky, neat, over-refined, comfortable… livable? Good God man, some will even put Deejon mustard on yer burger I hear.
And buddy, Kotkin? Is he the only U.S. planner you were able to dredge up? You all can see what he is about here:
http://www.newamerica.net/publications/queries/topic/detail/423
Finally, even with the obvious anglo-centric choice made by the Monocle and the Economist, the U.S. still can’t get up in the top 25.
Posted by David Kirk, on June 19th, 2009 at 2:20 pm EDTGrew up in the US, lived in several cities in US and abroad.
I think the makers of the lists need a reality check. Their metrics aren’t taking the temperature of reality.Let me count the ways that the 2 lists are absurd…but will concentrate on 2 points:
1) discounting virtually all of the continental US because of the homicide rate. absurd. the lists are for the timid, inexperienced and those who lack common-sense survival skills.
2) airports. yes, JFK is an abomination. but i can take a $50 cab ride to manhattan with no friction at all. tokyo’s narita? ah, lovely high-speed rail to a couple points in tokyo for about $40. but then what? stumble out of shinjuku station (but which of the dozens of exits?) with luggage and walk to my destination? no. take a taxi for another $20.
all considered, JFK is a walk in the park compared with Narita…
OK, one more point about Japan…i was lucky enough to live in central tokyo. most people aren’t. what’s that mean? most have 90 minute commutes (each way) on jam-packed trains. the men cannot control themselves around the women, so there are separate cars for women during rush hour. at night, half the occupants are drunk, there’s vomit in the stations and quite often on packed trains themselves.
Posted by taguba, on June 21st, 2009 at 11:35 am EDT[...] [...]
Posted by Home Sweet Copenhagen? « Putting the PUN back in punditry., on June 23rd, 2009 at 3:29 pm EDTI am amazed at the defensiveness in the majority of the comments decrying the lack of US cities on the list. I had the great good fortune to live in Western Europe for 5 years. While I did find the pace frustrating at first, as I relaxed from my US Driven mentality, I was delighted at the quality of life. People are more focused upon relationships than stuff. Nor do you have to make $200K to enjoy these places.
I encourage our US commenters to take a true holiday (not a mere week) and go to one of these places. Stay in a local home or agri-tourist spot and enjoy the life. Become aware how violent our cities are.
Many is the time I took the subway (Metro) in Paris or Brussels at very early morning hours (2-3 am) and never felt threatened. I cannot say the same of the DC area.
All these things make such a difference.
Instead of being defensive (aka: America is the best), consider that there are other alternatives out there. We would greatly benefit from having a less myopic view.
Posted by MoniqueDC, on June 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm EDT