Don’t forget to discuss the usefulness of social media like twitter, facebook, and flickr in tracking what’s going on over there. Watching these accounts is like having a wormhole opened to the energy on the ground.

Mousavi’s facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mir-Hossein-Mousavi-/45061919453

Mousavi’s twitter account:
http://twitter.com/mousavi1388

Mousavi’s flickr account:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mousavi1388

The U.S. could have played an important role in Iran’s current attempts at democratic reform had it not been for Cheney/Bush’s infantile policy of antagonism and non-engagement.

The election in Iran, and all its surrounding politics, proves that critics of Cheney/Bush Iran policy were right: the U.S. should have been fostering bonds with Iran while supporting the growing pro-democratic forces inside and outside of Iran.

Iran was poised for seismic changes which may now fail.

If the U.S. had helped strengthen Iranian ties to the rest of the world, rather than trying to isolate Iran, the country would almost certainly have become a democratic and stabilizing pillar in the region… at least as a result of this recent election.

Now we may see the movement fail at a time when the region and the world most need it to succeed.

It’s not surprising the Cheney/Bush effect is still screwing everything.

what was even more disappointing is that NPR talk of the nation having on Jon Bolton, talking just eariler today on why israel should bomb it and how it could without having the u.s. to blame for helping , and all diplomacy has failed.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105481747

while protester are fighting for there own democracy we have AEI and neo-cons talking and ramping up for war with iran sicken me. i think the leaders iran will most likely give on some things to appease the protesters not sure what.

also

i fully agree with JP on his above statements Bush’s policy’s on pretty much everything screwed us.

u name it, bush did esp on iran.

this talk surly will not help the protesters cause and consolidation Ahmedinejad supporters.

the US needs to stay out of this. I think the Iranians are grown up enough to deal with their own internal problems. No one threatened to bomb America after the disputed elections of George W. Bush (both times). We have nukes and more influence around the world than Iran could ever dream of… leave them to sort it out themselves.

If you donate books and used clothing to a charitable organization that is helping orphaned and sick palestinian children, you go to jail.

But if you talk about international state terrorism with the backdrop of American Enterprise Institure, you get paid $800,000 for talking about crap.

Please supporters of Israel, don’t dispute facts!!!

That court case was a complete injustice, and let’s hope it gets tossed on appeal, like they tossed out the case for the AIPAC spies.

Bush justice department,Obama justice department, can’t tell the difference, not yet anyways.

Of course this is the country where U.S. Supreme Court Justice Souter is stepping down from a lifetime appointment at a young age, out of disgust for the 2000 Bush v. Gore Supreme Coup’.

Moussavi an ultimate insider and his lovely wife ignited a movement in opposition within the political framework, by the rules, and on the verge of the first incumbent being voted out, it would appear factions flinched within the power structure and pre empted the actual results.

It is quite possible Ahmadinejad could of won fair and square, but instead they poured gas on the fire. Whether or not Khameni was in on it is unclear, but he sure as hell stepped in it, when he signed off on it (a massive miscalculation of his own people).

So they tried to pour water on it, then bullets, this one is gonna burn… burn up or burn out. Tianneman in Tehran is likely, sadly.

I would suggest adding Hooman Madj to you commentary panel for a show.

Dear Tom,

Please, please ask your guests what their take on the poll (published in the Washington Post) they did recently indicating that in fact most Iranians may favor Ahmadinejad over Mousavi:

The Iranian People Speak

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061401757.html

Looking forward to listening in to the show…

here she goes again about jews …..

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-fear-has-gone-in-a-land-that-has-tasted-freedom-1706912.html

Robert Fisk: Fear has gone in a land that has tasted freedom

In defiance of the ban on foreign reporters, The Independent’s Middle East correspondent ventures out to witness an extraordinary stand-off on the streets of Tehran

Dear Tom,

The hope is that this “beginning” of a revolutionary movement goes beyond a re-vote but rather to the upper level of leadership in Iran. Mousavi is really the lesser evil of the two (although an improvement), but nothing will change in the form of foreign relations, or domestic social issues unless the cleric rulers who are the final say in Iran are overthrown.

Thank you.

Too bad WE didn’t do this in 2000.

http://politicalirony.com/2009/06/16/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/

I agree with Patrick that Hooman Majd would be a great addition. I read his book and he is very realistic about Iran and the culture.

I am very curious and intrigued by this nation of contradictions….and am watching very closely.

In terms of the guardian council going over the elections….they are buying time and more importantly, perhaps just doing it to say they did it…..Then again, they might just toss out the whole thing and do it again….too soon to tell.

One question, Do your guests think that people are going to being to leave Iran again like in 79?

Correction to comment posted by “susan”

>>>here she goes again about jews …..

should have been

###…here she goes again about defenders of Israel…..

I am concerned about the U S Congress making some kind of grand statement on behalf of the protesters. The fact remains that Iran is not “on our side” in anything, and these people who are protesting have grown up with the malevolence of the United States as an unquestioned fact. I am not fond of oppression, but this is not our concern at this moment. The Iranians need to sort it out amongst themselves. In any case, we will be dealing with the aftermath in our diplomatic relations or lack of them. I think that anything our government does at this time will appear as nothing short of sticking our noses in where it does not belong.

Please mention Nico Pitney’s live blog. He’s doing a pretty intense job of keeping up with everything – there’s a suggestion that he doesn’t sleep!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html

We cannot extrapolate a western conceptualization of “democracy” to events in Iran. Even if the current theocracy is overthrown, we cannot assume that it will be replaced by a western version of democracy. That assumption has led to disastrous policies in the past.

Reading a book by John Farndon, “Iran, all you need to know,” every say 300 years some regime that has gotten fat and preferential gets overthrown. This land of Zoroaster, circa 1700 BC, whose ideas seeded monotheism, both Islam and Judaism. The land of Cyrus the Great, whose statement of human rights has been displayed prominently at the UN since 1971, conquering more by invitation than conquest: “I did not allow any harm to come to the land of Babylonia and its people… and I ordered that all should be worship their god…” This land, where one library in the south Fars region, at Jundi Shapur, survived the purges by the invading Muslims. Classical learning had been preserved by the Sassanian Persians. But under caliph Umar’s edict (Umar, a member of the Arab elite named by Abu Bakr upon Mohammed’s death as successor to Mohammad), “If the books agree with Islam, then we don’t need them. And if they don’t, they are haram, forbidden.” Later a more moderate caliph ordered that one library’s books translated into Arabic, and eventually there came the Renaissance.
My point is that human rights is deep-seated in Iran, and there are millennia of experience in shifting to better governments. (Unlike the United States.)
If I were a scholar of any sort I wouldn’t dare set this out. Farndon certainly challenges the idea that Islam saved classical civilization. First it tried to destroy it.

Mike the neo-cons are not in power, they blew it big time and all the power players in Washington know it.
Jon Bolton is a nuts in my view. If Israel dared to bomb Iran now it would be the end of them. It would unite the Arabs and the Persians which would be pretty stupid diplomatically. Right now most of the Arab states are watching Iran with suspicion and nerves.

Bolton is an extremist as is Netanyahu who is not to be trusted. Obama and Clinton need to read Israel the riot act now to get them to keep out of this. Which so far they are.

Interesting how all the speakers in today’s show down played the nuclear issue. As if this was not a huge problem as the players in this are mover forward.

If you donate books and used clothing to a charitable organization that is helping orphaned and sick palestinian children, you go to jail.

Talk about messing the facts. This statement is not based on all the facts and is an example of how some people twist things for their own agenda. Again, a 26 year old neophyte trying to tell people how to think.

Talk about messing up the facts. This statement is not based on all the facts and is an example of how some people twist things for their own agenda. Again, a 26 year old neophyte trying to tell people how to think.

If someone wonders why I launched back there about Iran’s illustrious past, it is because I heard Marinan Nemat, author of “Prisoner of Tehran,” last night on TV (maybe it was Tavis Smiley interviewing; maybe it was Amy Goodman on Democracy Now), and she had been imprisoned under Moussavi (the current challenger), when the Ayatollah Khomeini was in charge. She was saying the Iranian people have had enough of being imprisoned for infringements as insignificant as wearing makeup, that this is not what had been fought for in 1979. She senses that Iran has had enough. Period. That is why I was reading history. I note there was democracy in Iran that we could recognize as a lot like ours after World War I but I haven’t read much yet.
If people there are young, mean age 25, their sense of history will likely reach back to origins, the way we reach to our Oldest Standards to align ourselves. So the question is whether getting the Council of Experts to oust the Ayatollah Khameini would pacify the demonstrators, as was mentioned in the show, or whether as Nemat suggests, the dissatisfaction may run even deeper.

Finally the self interests of some power houses in Iran, such as Hashemi Rafsanjani and Mir-Hussain Mousavi is converging with the interests of the Iranian people. Let’s hope it is not too late. Last Friday’s coup d’état has been confirmed by officials in Iran. President Bush and Dick Cheney’s policies of disengagement with Iran did hurt the Iranian people and although President Obama is doing what it can to turn the tide, it may be too little, too late.

Iran is on the verge of history, a pivotal point where it can land itself a fascist government. It is unlikely that the regime will allow a new election, in the absence of which the crack down will continue and a complete marshal law will be enforced for how long? Unpredictable. The regime will probably try to soften its stance with the US in order to receive some relief from economic sanctions while it continues its path to becoming a full scale fascist police state.

In the meantime, it is a tough call for the US about what to do and how to approach the situation. Iran has already began to accuse the US of meddling in its internal affairs, so you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I think the Obama administration should continue to monitor the situation and it should continue to do what the reformists inside Iran want – in the absence of their request to intervene the US will only worsen the situation by interfering. Plus what are the options? What can the US do at this time?

Mina, recent visitor to Iran. Long Beach California.

Mina,
the U.S. can now contribute little productively to the Iranian people’s struggle for reform.

The time for a contribution by the U.S. was during the Cheney/Bush years, when pro-reform forces inside and outside Iran could have been supported, and ties between Iran and the outside world could have been fostered.

Such ties might have aligned Iranian interests somewhat with those of the west, compelling Iran’s leadership to become more reform-minded (in line by and large with the Iranian people).

As I stated in the second post of this thread, “now we may see the movement fail at a time when the region and the world most need it to succeed.”

We have infantile Cheney/Bush Iran policies of antagonism and non-engagement to thank (in part) if this once in a generation chance at reform fails utterly.

Iran might have become a democratic and stabilizing pillar in the region. . . at least, perhaps, as a result of this recent election. Now, who knows?

Hi Putney Swope,

i like to point out that Cheney is no longer in power, yet he managed to command the media(NPR as well) and prevent charges so far as i now against himself of anyone involved even scaring the public that a gitmo detainee could be heard in a maximum security prison, in which re-pugicans jumped on it, and dems feared about giving funding to close gitmo.

I pointed out Bolton comments since the AEI has been on a media campaign, blitz quite frankly on anything middle-east afters cheney’s junk speech.

I really hope the majority of the public does not succumb to fears and enables pig headed actions made by our politicians or pres or at least anymore then what there going to make.

while we may be able to have closer ties with iran and one less enemy we have people goating us to war yet again. sadly with no questioning from its host Neil C. about his baseless, factless points.

Mike that was not Cheney’s doing, it was the Dems caving.
these guys are not in power anymore. Why the Dems are not ignoring these people is beyond me. The media of course is brown nosing Cheney. They don’t make policy and for anyone in government to let these rubes influence them says more about them then the neo-cons.

Lets get real here, with all do respect the Dems are sheep.

Mike, Democrats gained control of the Congress in 2006, and they didn’t pursue any impeachment proceedings or investigations against Cheney (or Bush), even though Dennis Kucinich did try to float a bill in the House. By the way, I hope you are aware that it takes just a simple majority in the House to impeach someone. Chew on that. Nice try at being an apologist for the corrupt, spineless and immoral Democrats.

Look up the Iraq war authorization and you will find your favorite Democrats voting in favor of it. And by the way, there were a few brave souls – both Republicans and Democrats – who voted against the Iraq war. Next time, please do your research and base your assertions on facts instead of the silly, simplistic and factually incorrect “Democrats-good/Republicans-bad” or “it’s all Bush-Cheney’s fault” meme. That’s not only intellectually dishonest but not supported by facts. The Democrats in the Congress could’ve voted against the Iraq war instead of rewarding someone who voted ‘yes’ on Iraq war with the Secretary of State post.

addendum: that should read “Democrats gained control of the Congress after mid-term elections in 2006 (starting Jan 2007)…”

JP wrote: “We have infantile Cheney/Bush Iran policies of antagonism and non-engagement to thank (in part) if this once in a generation chance at reform fails utterly.”

JP, two questions for you –
1. How was Clinton’s foreign policy, during his eight years, towards Iran different from Bush/Cheney’s?
2. And who would’ve Bush-Cheney engaged – the nut-job Ahmadinejad?

You do realize that it’s the supreme leader who pulls the strings behind the curtain, whether it is Ahmadinejad or someone else.

Additionally, if you are really pro-democracy, there’s plenty to do right here in the US where (I’m assuming) you’re a citizen and will have more say in the proceedings than in Iran. You could start with Ballot Access.

Mina, why should the US interfere in the internal matters of a sovereign country? We already did that in Iraq and the results are not pleasant. Let the people of Iran, who are not little kids, fight their good fight and make it on their own to a society that they desire.

History has shown us that outside help always comes back to bite those outsiders in their tush. Let’s also not have double standards of asking/wishing US to help one country, but criticize it for helping another country become democratic. I’d think that you wouldn’t want any other country helping us with our democracy or telling us what’s good for us – at least I wouldn’t.

pardon me millard,

but you as well as i know or think u know that just having a majority does not mean all will vote the same, nor that impreaching bush and leaving in cheney as pres is wanted by dems. Nor the senate would have to vote as well(controled by repug at the time) as well. sure your aware of that

I doubt any dem would want cheney as pres for any period of time . As far as i seen the republican party has been off on the deep end, throwing out moderates, and the likes, so as this period of time repug bad, dem good. Do u prefer hiliary as Sec of D. no, but is far better than mccain/palin, and romney or tim delay, Newt G. as it.

If i recall fear was what consolidated bushes power along with any critics were tarred and feather as unpatriotic liberal taking finally .

whats really intellectually dishonest is to think just cause u have a majority everyone will rank and file on votes. what also intellectually dishonest is to assume that politics does not play a role swaying/playing on public opinion.

I give credit to the people who voted against the war in iraq repub or dem. yet it was majority dems protesting not republicans.

apologist please, i see dems mostly the lesser of the two evils,currently in your environment the green party is a waste of a vote,

seems naive thinking that if nadar got in office he be any different, and even if he wished to push his agenda he would have to work with opposing parties, in his case both, along with giving up something to do it.

i see most dems and rep as sheep along with most the public. But least with the dems we get those few dems who wish to help all people not a select few health-care, education,the poor, minorities and on
and on. is there corrupt dems of course, never said there wasnt. whats the republicans view on health-care, education, the poor, minorities?

dont believe me fine just google on what the repubs are pushing and the dems.

hard to say the same about the repubs even John M who i respected up to the primaries where he sold the mccain of 2000 for the indebted mccain of 2008.

i welcome u to prove me wrong and show how the leaders of republican party has come together to outline a plan to the U.S. with factual, thought-out thinking,u can start with health care.

fyi, millard politics are dirty u do realize this.power often corrupts. cheers

Putney Swope,
its naive to think that just because someone’s not in power that they cant sabotage policies, plant moles in the government, and so on. Foxes news played a big role in promoting the war and if u look at there line up far-right thinking. public opinion close to election is what matters and controlling how things are presented or how its called.

again my point was that AEI and Bolton behaviors are not helpful with iran, please show me all those leaders (or lack there of)republican denounce cheney
speeches.

I’m an Iranian. Ahmadinejad in not our president, He is a DICTATOR who is killing innocent people in the streets. Please help and support iranians to achieve DEMOCRACY.

True sexual freedom means access to Pornography, Sexually enhancing drugs, Prostitutes, and Abortion. Iranian women are wearing a chasity belt and the youngsters want it removed now. The majority of Iranians are under 30 and they want to party. They will riot until their sexual needs are fully satisfied.

Mike I’m not disagreeing with you. What I am saying is the democrats are not fighting back. They act as if they are still the minority and they also have a problem with discipline within the party. The republicans are turning into a this small minority party and are pretty low in the polls. They have no leadership worth anything and are just the party of “no”.

To point to Fox news during the run up to the Iraq war is not a good analogy since they supported the party in power and one should expect that from them. If the public are not educated enough to know the difference then we as the public at large are at fault. I don’t trust politicians at all. Frankly I think both parties are pretty awful.

It’s the job of the party in power to shut Cheney down, they did not. The corporate media also plays a huge role in helping to promote this tripe. Cheney has the right to free speech, however not one of the talking heads on any of the shows he was on questioned his motives or what he presented as facts. This was not journalism and these so called journalist such as David Gregory should be ashamed to even have the title on their business cards.

Mike,

Voting for Green Party (or someone other than the duopoly of Democrats/Republicans) is not a waste of vote – voting for Democrats, when one’s heart and mind agrees more with the Greens and there are Greens to vote for (and that too in a safe state like Massachusetts where a Democrat nominee is bound to win anyway – we do not elect Presidents based on popular vote but based on electoral college for each state), is not only a colossal waste of one opportunity we citizens get to have our voices heard, but also pusillanimous and a big reason why things don’t change. As they say, look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers at others. So your argument is illogical and irrational.

Your comment is very typical (and by now, past its expiry date) apologist fare from Democrats who are interested in maintaining the status quo, and I think “lesser of the two evils” is one of the oldest tricks that some smart people fall for. I don’t, because lesser of the two evils is still evil.

To not vote for Greens just because “power corrupts and they will become corrupt if/when they come to power” is nothing but self-defeating. I don’t fall for that and while I am cynical in certain aspects, I’m also hopeful and positive in other aspects. Keep in mind that unless you do your own research, you won’t hear about the gains of Green and other parties in the elections in the mainstream media, thus perpetuating the kind of thinking you reflect, i.e. self-fulfilling and self-defeating. Count me out from this defense of corruption and maintenance of the status quo, and if Democrats are bad, why should I blame Republicans? It’s called “pot calling the kettle black”.

As for “voting for the winner” mentality (another self-defeating trap), did you vote for Reagan, because it was known before the elections that he would most likely win, or did you vote for Carter and Mondale? (I’m assuming you are old enough to have voted during those elections, though if you aren’t, it doesn’t take anything away from my point.) The most likely winner in an election is predicted before the elections, and those predictions are pretty accurate. So do you go by those predictions and vote for the eventual winner even though you may disagree with that person’s policies? I sincerely hope not!! Also look up Jesse Ventura who worked with the Minnesota legislature even though he was an independent. BTW, our Constitution does give much power to the office of the President – homework for you.

And politics remains dirty because people like you keep indulging in self-defeating intellectual masturbation instead of taking a step forward to support other parties for a change.

nope did not vote for reagan was not born than.

illogical and irrational please, i voted for obama caused i believe he’s the best one for the job.

How many electoral vote did nadar get? if there cause was so great than i along with many others would support them, maybe if the republicain party fails and keeps getting smaller there may have a chance. If the green party had such a great platform than it surly would attract more votes.

if a republican, dem, independent, has what im looking for than ill vote from them, but so far (exception of a few like ron paul)im voting mostly dem.

u counterdict yourself when saying why blaming the republican for problems, yet u blamed the dems in your previous post about voting for the war in iraq.

is that not a example of “pot calling the kettle black”

thinking that the green party is the holy light is naive and silly.

again my point was to point out what AEI and Bolton were trying to achieve thorugh fear.

fyi, i was not around when carter was prez but it seems from what i read, hear from him, hes a great man working for peace and one of the few to call on use to cut back, (which lost him the election to reagan)

u dear sir, assuming your alot older seem to lack the logical views on issues concerning the middle-east, and u.s. politics there will always be people found to be corrupt if so vote them out assuming the green party is above all shows your lack of (even due to exp.) on whats goes on.

millard,

along with if you are what the green party represent it is highly unlikey to see my vote or anyone else.

so continue with your rants and we’ll see what happens?

Mike I agree with your points about fear and how some segments of the republican party (Bolton, Cheney) use this as a way of keeping their paranoid world view in the media.
However I do think that the dems are quite spineless when it comes to defending and putting the absurd mindset of the likes of Cheney into it’s proper place (a jail perhaps).

I am old enough toe remember the Carter years, he was a lousy president and also had the misfortune to be president during the Iran hostage crisis. Add to that a horrible recession and Carter’s inability to seem in charge, it was no wonder people voted for Reagen.
Reagen did what Obama did, he looked presidential, confident and calm. In times of crisis these are attributes that people look for in leaders.

I have no comment on the Green party which are not even on the ticket in the general election in Massachusetts as far as I can remember.

Putney Swope,

i agree about the cowardish of some the dems. and lack of real jounralism

i will read more about it to better inform myself. do u recommend any sources for this (more historical and factbase would be great) along with the iran hostage crisis? im curious

from what i seen from carter as of now is a great person, maybe not at his time as prez . ands seem now he is able to talk his mind

For current news I go to different sources, the Guardian, The Independent, Robert Reich is good. I also watch and read Democracy Now and through them I started to read Robert Sheer’s columns. The Financial Times is good. The Nation. Most of these are pretty left leaning I also read the usual suspects, NY Times, Washington Post.

As far as Carter is concerned he has become a better statesman now then he was back in the late 70’s.
However the Iranian hostage crisis and the ousting of the Shah of Iran, which is very interesting in comparison with what is happening now in Iran, was one of those kind of events that presidents can’t control.
It was messy.

thanks will check them out

“if there cause was so great than i along with many others would support them, maybe if the republicain party fails and keeps getting smaller there may have a chance. If the green party had such a great platform than it surly would attract more votes.”

Mike, your comment tells me you haven’t even bothered to look up the stance of other parties and candidates on issues and are unable to think beyond the two-party paradigm. You are also using circular logic in your above comment, which is a logical fallacy.

You also make another logical mistake when you reject Green Party or any party other than the two corrupt ones without even checking them out or giving them a chance. Now, if for a moment we assume that the Green Party is equally corrupt as the Democrats (which it is not, and if you had done your research, you’d have found out that as a matter of principle, the Green Party doesn’t accept money from corporations – doesn’t mean they’re 100% honest and incorruptible, but so far, they’re doing fine), then logically, you should have no problem voting for either one, since both are corrupt. So, that’s another hole in your logic.

“along with if you are what the green party represent it is highly unlikey to see my vote or anyone else.

so continue with your rants and we’ll see what happens?”

While we’re at it, let me disabuse you of another wrong notion you seem to have – I’m not here to recruit people for the Green Party or any other party, or to win some popularity contest, and neither am I a spokesperson for any party. I don’t belong to any party and I am an independent. I speak my mind – often, directly and freely; I point out facts and that’s it. If in spite of pointing out the facts, people like you continue to be apologists for the corrupt two parties and keep maintaining the status quo while claiming some bogus higher ground of being logical and rational, then so be it – I can’t really do much about your moral compass and your world-view.

But if people like you try to sing praises of Democrats and paint them as angels, I will do my best to point out the facts that show otherwise.

“along with if you are what the green party represent it is highly unlikey to see my vote or anyone else.

so continue with your rants and we’ll see what happens?”

Mike, so you’re telling me that you act like a little immature kid who throws tantrums, and is incapable of doing an independent research but makes reactionary decisions based on sulking and what others say?
Be my guest, amigo.

millard,

put it simple for u i did check out there site, i agree more with the dems than the green party on far more issues. again as of today current state of events the dems are better than what the repub are pushing. plain fact. i never said angels so nice try,
again how many electoral vote did nadar get?

again how did the green party canidate do in mass runing for gov? i didnt agree with there policy and felt more inline with deval so guess what i voted for him.

again u must be aware i cannot vote for every dem in each state or vote for them if i had the chance to.( i know this is tough for u)

immature please, whats immature is your perception, cant win so u go on the attack, and assumptions that validated your twisted views.

so have a great weekend and good luck with your rants.
further response to u is a waste.

lastly the statements and behaviors the national republican party has been saying about anti-abotion, blacks and minoritys, gays, and christian racadicalization of the party. alos with the promotion of voices like rush L. sean hanity and glen beak, john bolton, dick cheney, attack on colon P. and mexicans and blacks.

so as of now dem good, repub bad and it be against my interest and many others to vote or support such republicans on a national stage.

Mike,

From your comments, you come across as very ignorant and not open-minded, and as I mentioned earlier, a prisoner of the two-party paradigm. At the risk of coming across as condescending, I’d suggest some books for you so that you can expand your knowledge – take it for what it’s worth or leave it:

1. No Debate (George Farah)
2. The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (Greg Palast)
3. Who Will Tell The People? The Betrayal of American Democracy (William Greider)
4. Grand Illusion: The Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-Party Tyranny (Theresa Amato)

Also look up and spend some time on Ballot Access. And of course, the underlying assumption of mine is that you’re actually interested in the fundamentals of democracy, freedom, fairness, honesty and clean politics; and not just adjusting your compass to what the Democrats do (i.e. an apologist for Democratic Party) and being happy with the status quo.

Cheers.