From your comments, you come across as very ignorant and not open-minded, and as I mentioned earlier, a prisoner of the two-party paradigm. At the risk of coming across as condescending, I’d suggest some books for you so that you can expand your knowledge – take it for what it’s worth or leave it:

1. No Debate (George Farah)
2. The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (Greg Palast)
3. Who Will Tell The People? The Betrayal of American Democracy (William Greider)
4. Grand Illusion: The Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-Party Tyranny (Theresa Amato)

Also look up and spend some time on Ballot Access. And of course, the underlying assumption of mine is that you’re actually interested in the fundamentals of democracy, freedom, fairness, honesty and clean politics; and not just adjusting your compass to what the Democrats do (i.e. an apologist for Democratic Party) and being happy with the status quo.

Cheers.

so as of now dem good, repub bad and it be against my interest and many others to vote or support such republicans on a national stage.

put it simple for u i did check out there site, i agree more with the dems than the green party on far more issues. again as of today current state of events the dems are better than what the repub are pushing. plain fact. i never said angels so nice try,
again how many electoral vote did nadar get?

again how did the green party canidate do in mass runing for gov? i didnt agree with there policy and felt more inline with deval so guess what i voted for him.

again u must be aware i cannot vote for every dem in each state or vote for them if i had the chance to.( i know this is tough for u)

immature please, whats immature is your perception, cant win so u go on the attack, and assumptions that validated your twisted views.

so have a great weekend and good luck with your rants.
further response to u is a waste.

so continue with your rants and we’ll see what happens?”

Mike, so you’re telling me that you act like a little immature kid who throws tantrums, and is incapable of doing an independent research but makes reactionary decisions based on sulking and what others say?
Be my guest, amigo.

Mike, your comment tells me you haven’t even bothered to look up the stance of other parties and candidates on issues and are unable to think beyond the two-party paradigm. You are also using circular logic in your above comment, which is a logical fallacy.

You also make another logical mistake when you reject Green Party or any party other than the two corrupt ones without even checking them out or giving them a chance. Now, if for a moment we assume that the Green Party is equally corrupt as the Democrats (which it is not, and if you had done your research, you’d have found out that as a matter of principle, the Green Party doesn’t accept money from corporations – doesn’t mean they’re 100% honest and incorruptible, but so far, they’re doing fine), then logically, you should have no problem voting for either one, since both are corrupt. So, that’s another hole in your logic.

“along with if you are what the green party represent it is highly unlikey to see my vote or anyone else.

so continue with your rants and we’ll see what happens?”

While we’re at it, let me disabuse you of another wrong notion you seem to have – I’m not here to recruit people for the Green Party or any other party, or to win some popularity contest, and neither am I a spokesperson for any party. I don’t belong to any party and I am an independent. I speak my mind – often, directly and freely; I point out facts and that’s it. If in spite of pointing out the facts, people like you continue to be apologists for the corrupt two parties and keep maintaining the status quo while claiming some bogus higher ground of being logical and rational, then so be it – I can’t really do much about your moral compass and your world-view.

But if people like you try to sing praises of Democrats and paint them as angels, I will do my best to point out the facts that show otherwise.

As far as Carter is concerned he has become a better statesman now then he was back in the late 70’s.
However the Iranian hostage crisis and the ousting of the Shah of Iran, which is very interesting in comparison with what is happening now in Iran, was one of those kind of events that presidents can’t control.
It was messy.

i agree about the cowardish of some the dems. and lack of real jounralism

i will read more about it to better inform myself. do u recommend any sources for this (more historical and factbase would be great) along with the iran hostage crisis? im curious

from what i seen from carter as of now is a great person, maybe not at his time as prez . ands seem now he is able to talk his mind

I am old enough toe remember the Carter years, he was a lousy president and also had the misfortune to be president during the Iran hostage crisis. Add to that a horrible recession and Carter’s inability to seem in charge, it was no wonder people voted for Reagen.
Reagen did what Obama did, he looked presidential, confident and calm. In times of crisis these are attributes that people look for in leaders.

I have no comment on the Green party which are not even on the ticket in the general election in Massachusetts as far as I can remember.

along with if you are what the green party represent it is highly unlikey to see my vote or anyone else.

so continue with your rants and we’ll see what happens?

illogical and irrational please, i voted for obama caused i believe he’s the best one for the job.

How many electoral vote did nadar get? if there cause was so great than i along with many others would support them, maybe if the republicain party fails and keeps getting smaller there may have a chance. If the green party had such a great platform than it surly would attract more votes.

if a republican, dem, independent, has what im looking for than ill vote from them, but so far (exception of a few like ron paul)im voting mostly dem.

u counterdict yourself when saying why blaming the republican for problems, yet u blamed the dems in your previous post about voting for the war in iraq.

is that not a example of “pot calling the kettle black”

thinking that the green party is the holy light is naive and silly.

again my point was to point out what AEI and Bolton were trying to achieve thorugh fear.

fyi, i was not around when carter was prez but it seems from what i read, hear from him, hes a great man working for peace and one of the few to call on use to cut back, (which lost him the election to reagan)

u dear sir, assuming your alot older seem to lack the logical views on issues concerning the middle-east, and u.s. politics there will always be people found to be corrupt if so vote them out assuming the green party is above all shows your lack of (even due to exp.) on whats goes on.

Voting for Green Party (or someone other than the duopoly of Democrats/Republicans) is not a waste of vote – voting for Democrats, when one’s heart and mind agrees more with the Greens and there are Greens to vote for (and that too in a safe state like Massachusetts where a Democrat nominee is bound to win anyway – we do not elect Presidents based on popular vote but based on electoral college for each state), is not only a colossal waste of one opportunity we citizens get to have our voices heard, but also pusillanimous and a big reason why things don’t change. As they say, look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers at others. So your argument is illogical and irrational.

Your comment is very typical (and by now, past its expiry date) apologist fare from Democrats who are interested in maintaining the status quo, and I think “lesser of the two evils” is one of the oldest tricks that some smart people fall for. I don’t, because lesser of the two evils is still evil.

To not vote for Greens just because “power corrupts and they will become corrupt if/when they come to power” is nothing but self-defeating. I don’t fall for that and while I am cynical in certain aspects, I’m also hopeful and positive in other aspects. Keep in mind that unless you do your own research, you won’t hear about the gains of Green and other parties in the elections in the mainstream media, thus perpetuating the kind of thinking you reflect, i.e. self-fulfilling and self-defeating. Count me out from this defense of corruption and maintenance of the status quo, and if Democrats are bad, why should I blame Republicans? It’s called “pot calling the kettle black”.

As for “voting for the winner” mentality (another self-defeating trap), did you vote for Reagan, because it was known before the elections that he would most likely win, or did you vote for Carter and Mondale? (I’m assuming you are old enough to have voted during those elections, though if you aren’t, it doesn’t take anything away from my point.) The most likely winner in an election is predicted before the elections, and those predictions are pretty accurate. So do you go by those predictions and vote for the eventual winner even though you may disagree with that person’s policies? I sincerely hope not!! Also look up Jesse Ventura who worked with the Minnesota legislature even though he was an independent. BTW, our Constitution does give much power to the office of the President – homework for you.

And politics remains dirty because people like you keep indulging in self-defeating intellectual masturbation instead of taking a step forward to support other parties for a change.

To point to Fox news during the run up to the Iraq war is not a good analogy since they supported the party in power and one should expect that from them. If the public are not educated enough to know the difference then we as the public at large are at fault. I don’t trust politicians at all. Frankly I think both parties are pretty awful.

It’s the job of the party in power to shut Cheney down, they did not. The corporate media also plays a huge role in helping to promote this tripe. Cheney has the right to free speech, however not one of the talking heads on any of the shows he was on questioned his motives or what he presented as facts. This was not journalism and these so called journalist such as David Gregory should be ashamed to even have the title on their business cards.

but you as well as i know or think u know that just having a majority does not mean all will vote the same, nor that impreaching bush and leaving in cheney as pres is wanted by dems. Nor the senate would have to vote as well(controled by repug at the time) as well. sure your aware of that

I doubt any dem would want cheney as pres for any period of time . As far as i seen the republican party has been off on the deep end, throwing out moderates, and the likes, so as this period of time repug bad, dem good. Do u prefer hiliary as Sec of D. no, but is far better than mccain/palin, and romney or tim delay, Newt G. as it.

If i recall fear was what consolidated bushes power along with any critics were tarred and feather as unpatriotic liberal taking finally .

whats really intellectually dishonest is to think just cause u have a majority everyone will rank and file on votes. what also intellectually dishonest is to assume that politics does not play a role swaying/playing on public opinion.

I give credit to the people who voted against the war in iraq repub or dem. yet it was majority dems protesting not republicans.

apologist please, i see dems mostly the lesser of the two evils,currently in your environment the green party is a waste of a vote,

seems naive thinking that if nadar got in office he be any different, and even if he wished to push his agenda he would have to work with opposing parties, in his case both, along with giving up something to do it.

i see most dems and rep as sheep along with most the public. But least with the dems we get those few dems who wish to help all people not a select few health-care, education,the poor, minorities and on
and on. is there corrupt dems of course, never said there wasnt. whats the republicans view on health-care, education, the poor, minorities?

dont believe me fine just google on what the repubs are pushing and the dems.

hard to say the same about the repubs even John M who i respected up to the primaries where he sold the mccain of 2000 for the indebted mccain of 2008.

i welcome u to prove me wrong and show how the leaders of republican party has come together to outline a plan to the U.S. with factual, thought-out thinking,u can start with health care.

fyi, millard politics are dirty u do realize this.power often corrupts. cheers

Putney Swope,
its naive to think that just because someone’s not in power that they cant sabotage policies, plant moles in the government, and so on. Foxes news played a big role in promoting the war and if u look at there line up far-right thinking. public opinion close to election is what matters and controlling how things are presented or how its called.

again my point was that AEI and Bolton behaviors are not helpful with iran, please show me all those leaders (or lack there of)republican denounce cheney
speeches.

History has shown us that outside help always comes back to bite those outsiders in their tush. Let’s also not have double standards of asking/wishing US to help one country, but criticize it for helping another country become democratic. I’d think that you wouldn’t want any other country helping us with our democracy or telling us what’s good for us – at least I wouldn’t.

JP, two questions for you –
1. How was Clinton’s foreign policy, during his eight years, towards Iran different from Bush/Cheney’s?
2. And who would’ve Bush-Cheney engaged – the nut-job Ahmadinejad?

You do realize that it’s the supreme leader who pulls the strings behind the curtain, whether it is Ahmadinejad or someone else.

Additionally, if you are really pro-democracy, there’s plenty to do right here in the US where (I’m assuming) you’re a citizen and will have more say in the proceedings than in Iran. You could start with Ballot Access.

Look up the Iraq war authorization and you will find your favorite Democrats voting in favor of it. And by the way, there were a few brave souls – both Republicans and Democrats – who voted against the Iraq war. Next time, please do your research and base your assertions on facts instead of the silly, simplistic and factually incorrect “Democrats-good/Republicans-bad” or “it’s all Bush-Cheney’s fault” meme. That’s not only intellectually dishonest but not supported by facts. The Democrats in the Congress could’ve voted against the Iraq war instead of rewarding someone who voted ‘yes’ on Iraq war with the Secretary of State post.