What’s going on here? Stupidity and racism.
Why are you bothering to give this the light of day?
This is a none issue except for the idiots who are keeping this nonsense going.

Does BUR realize that this just empowering these people?

Sad wbur will be covering people who are so out there and give these radicals a voice, talk of the nation debunked all these claims just last week while many sources both dems, and republicans, and independent sources had the same and saw it, not to mention you can see it on the web as well.

Not to mention on July 17 cnn on the lob dobbs show(thank you Jon stewart)pointed this out as well.

Since i’m guessing your guess Orly Taitz is demanding obama birth certificate Orly most likely does not have a computer, and seems to be very misinformed.

your welcome orly now tom can we have a better informed guess.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identity

gotta watch this it has orly on it and is pretty funny and shows the agenda behind these peoples actions.

fact check dot org. proved he is, the governor of Hawaii saw it and said he is(republican),not to mention the Hawaii state department of health saying the same

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

Please tom dont insult your listeners with a guess like this one.

Thanks,

Mike this is a disgrace. I can’t believe an hour is going to be wasted on this.

Very poor form here BUR, very.

I have to ask how, why and who came up with this idea?

Both Put and Mike are right, this nonsense is stupidity and racism, nothing more.

Why would any program anywhere (much less a good program like On Point) provide these idiot racists with air time?

When will the media start doing some simple fact checking and tersely report the findings, instead of dignifying stupidity with point/counterpoint equal time?

If Tom plays Devil’s advocate on this issue, or lends these fools an ounce of credulity, I’ll be deeply disillusioned.

Well, sometimes it is good to give people rope to hang themselves with. Like Palin last year, the more interviews she gave the more she exposed that she couldn’t even field the softest of softball questions (“What newspapers do you read?”) and the farther her popularity numbers fell. Hopefully, the same with this delusional, conspiracy-theory drivel and the number of people supporting it. Tom, the right questions will give them all the rope they need.

Here’s a thought-question for the great minds and “angry holdouts” that you will be talking with. Given the reality of “infantile amnesia,” how do I know I was born in the USA? I certainly do not recall the NYC hospital and attendant doctors and nurses. I just recall what I was told many years after the fact and one day seeing a certain piece of paper in my parents’ desk drawer. Pretty flimsy evidence and hardly proof. How do your guests who think they were born in the USA know for sure they were born in the USA? Do they remember being born in the USA?

Hawaii has a statute regarding the issuance of birth certificates for non-Hawaiian-born children. To wit:

[HRS §338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

Many who are desperate for hope, even if it’s a false one, would prefer to toss this issue “down the memory hole.” However, for rational thinking people, such a statute raises a legitimate question surrounding Obama’s birth place, and the manner by which his Hawaiian birth certificate was issued.

If Obama is a natural-born U.S. citizen, then why doesn’t he simply put the issue to rest by releasing the long-form vault copy of his birth certificate?

Mike, I wouldn’t get overly excited about Factcheck.org offering any unbiased proof regarding this issue:

http://ngoldfarb.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/state-of-hawaii-says-obama-birth-certificate-not-valid/

But hey, it’s only the U.S. Constitution that requires the President to be a natural-born U.S. citizen–it’s not as if it’s “black-letter” law that’s written into any legal document that’s actually being followed any longer in America anyway, right?

Yes Todd,
Obama has been engaged in a forty-nine year conspiracy, since his conception, to undermine America, the constitution, and the Presidency of the United States by ascending to the Presidency under false pretenses.

Now he can finally complete his master plan by making America a puppet government to Kenya, the country to which he has true allegiance.

Now America is doomed and Kenya will finally rise to assert hegemony over the rest of the hapless world, and “good” Americans will become white slaves forced to accept affordable health care, green jobs, and more efficient automobiles.

If only liberals would have listened to wise conservatives and accepted McCain and Palin as our True American leaders, our country would now, after six months, be debt free and the rest of the world’s countries would be growing, thriving democracies, and we’d have all the energy we could ever want, with global climate change a long-forgotten sham.

But nooooooo…. we just weren’t as smart as conservatives and couldn’t plainly see that Obama was lying when he casually claimed to be an American. Why, oh why don’t we love America as much as those “fine Americans” who realize that corporations should be running our country. All we had to do was read the constitution and tell Obama blacks don’t get to be president here, like you fine folks.

An excellent NYT piece summarizing the whole “controversy.”

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/on-television-and-radio-talk-of-obamas-citizenship/?pagemode=print

‘Remarkably, there is even a reference to Mr. Obama’s birth in the “Births, Marriages, Deaths” column of The Honolulu Advertiser newspaper on Aug. 13, 1961.’

‘Mr. Dobbs has said he believes Mr. Obama is a citizen, but he brought up the controversy repeatedly this week, wondering in particular why Mr. Obama has not provided a copy of his birth certificate so that “all of this nonsense goes away.” He apparently answered his own question Thursday evening, telling viewers that “Hawaii says it can’t release a paper copy of the president’s original birth certificate because they say the state government discarded the original document when the health department records went electronic some eight years ago.”’

This is an embarrassing choice of topic. The high standards of your show and NPR are sullied. Count me out for the hour.

I’m quite sure that Tom and the producers of OnPoint are giving this air time not because they think it’s a legitimate question but because they think the movement using this seemingly question as a focal point may be building.

Remember, the stars are lining up for these folks (conspiracy theorists) who see the world through Limbaugh shaded glasses:

Rise in black and hispanic middle class
Obama elected
Stem cell research approved
Palin maligned by pompous media
Financial meltdown
Madoff
Anti-Semitism
Tea Parties
Threats to gun culture
Don’t ask don’t tell (all gay issues folded into one)
Sotomayor and the Ricci case
Officer Crowley (wrongly) accused by Gates
Much more…

This group doesn’t just reside in northern Idaho anymore.

I hope this show explores how this group of people might grow and what their impact on the rest of us might be.

The significance of the Crowley/Gates episode is that it unhinges some of us “liberal” Obama supporters and shows that each of these issues is more nuanced than either entrenched side would have it.

Ugh, sorry. Meant this:

I’m quite sure that Tom and the producers of OnPoint are giving this air time not because they think it’s a legitimate question but because they think the movement using this question as a focal point may be building.

I got a mailing from the Republicans around 2006 asking my positions on EVERYTHING. Some master statistician was fishing to see if there were any issues by which they could manipulate me into voting that side. Ugh. Except when I want to help select a Democrat in a primary, I am independent, and I don’t let the machine manipulate me — keeping vividly in mind the swift-boating of Senator Kerry and in fact the way Sarah Palin’s sheer folksy popularity could be used to throw huge vote numbers in her direction. If Religion with a capital R can’t be effectively used in the next election, then ripe for the picking are those who are threatened by Immigrants. Look at the economy; these are likely to be major voters against the Democrats in the next election.
This is about politics, as well as about Americans latching onto apparnently irrational positions. I am so naive about that side of America, the entrenched know-nothing (except narrow-view, pre-selected, which one parrots loudly).
Or am I the narrow one? Let’s see what comes up.

Right Ellen. While we’re not paying attention that group (if there is a single group) gets a bit more traction.

I’d be careful calling them “know nothings” because we make the mistake of thinking that the other side (if there is a coherent other side) is organized and knows something.

Drawing a venn diagram of political groups within the US right now would be tough because it would change radically each time you changed the issue. My guess is that only a small group on the left would remain on the left consistently through all issues while this “birther” group on the right is much more entrenched.

This is an issue because of the radically evil policies President Obama is instituting. Also there is a tradition that the anti-Christ at the end of time will be someone whose origins are not really known.

When President Obama goes abroad, he only apologizes for this country, he never celebrates the great accomplishments of this country. Whether or not he was born in this country, it is quite right to call Obama “un- American”.

Well, what is so crazy? You mean that Barak Obama may not be natural born? There is comething called the constitution-ever hear of it? The left is concerned about this-really concerned!

As indicated in the above comments, many ‘On Point’ listeners find this topic to be a waste of time. However, it is a very important matter to a surprisingly large number of our fellow Americans. For the sake of “United” We Stand, open your minds for 45 minutes, consider this controversy on any and all merits and, at the end of the 45 minute discussion, feel free to return to being a strong advocate of your respective positions.

Sorry OnPoint, but this show is laaaaaame. The crazies don’t need anymore attention.

I can’t believe WBUR is having this rubbish and racist discussion. Why not dedicate the whole day to this and Michael Jackson theories like cable news.

Hmmmmm….. donate again at the next fund raiser????

Gotta think about that.

Nick

And Whoa! Did somebody just call Barack Obama the anti-christ? That’s amazing!

To become the President Obama was thoroughly vetted by the Justice Department and the FBI. If this was an issue one would have thought it would have come up by now.

This is more about a black man living in a big house.
If you look at who is doing this it’s the extreme right and the shock jocks just trying to keep the adrenaline going.

I think this show is a waste of time. The argument that it will help to dispel the story is a red herring as all those who believe it have made up their minds.

It’s the same with the intelligent design/creationist and evolution debate it’s a waste of time as the people who favor intelligent design have already made up their minds that there is no such thing as evolution. The same can be said about global warming, the horse is out of the barn on that one and yet there are people, interesting some of the same conservatives, who still think it’s not happening.

Giving them a voice is only empowering them.
Right now I think health care is more important.
I would rather have a show dealing with how the Obama plan, whatever that is, and the Democrat’s plan will only make things worse. They are just mandating that people buy insurance, which is a win for the insurance corporations. BUR should do a show with Trudy Lieberman and Marcia Angell, M.D. both of whom were on Bill Moyers show this past week and had a lot of interesting things to say on this.

Health care is a huge issue and the more good information that is put out there the better. Just doing one or two shows on this is a disservice to the public in my opioion.

And Whoa! Did somebody just call Barack Obama the anti-christ? That’s amazing!

Frances it is amazing and this is why shows like this are a waste of time. It gives voice to all the conspiracy nut jobs. Is BUR handing out Aluminum foil hats today as well?

This is all about selling papers and drawing in viewers. The media has nothing better to cover (war, boring; healthcare, too complicated). They are appealing to the lowest common denominator. And even though I don’t necessarily think On Point should be shedding more light on these people, I am interested to listen to how they cover the topic. I’m sure it will be done right.

Please. Do not waste an hour on this. Don’t give these people a forum.

I see the birther movement, as many people on here have said, as the politically correct way for disgruntled people to voice their prejudicial distaste for Obama. These religoius, nationalistic people are used to caucasian hegemony, and President Obama is the personification of the secular, globalistic, ethnically diverse future that is absolutely inenvitable.

WHERE he was born IS NOT RELEVANT. Only the nationality of his mother is. Are they also claiming that his mother and grandparents are/were not US citizens. Because … IF SHE WAS THEN HE IS … no matter where he was born.

War boring? Health care too hard to address? Audience pandering here?
For the most died-in-the-wool creationists or whatever the anti-Obama forces began as, this is an opportunity for them to redeem themselves to me, for one.
And for those who think we need redemption from the Republican postures that led us to arrogant Crusader-type impositions globally (and at home), here is a big opportunity:
Know thy enemy.
Where is your stategic intelligence? Listen up.

I want to clarify something above. We are not talking about “proving cistizenship” (then, where he was born would be relevant). We are talking about demonstrating “non-citizenship” so, where he was norn is only relevant IF they are also questioning the citizneship of his mother. Are they?

PS: [posted by sean, 7/27 @3:02] above might want to read the rest of the document before he quotes it.

Know thy enemy. Think strategically. Listen.

Just on a practical level, if you disagree with President Obama’s policies, and you can argue that he shouldn’t be in office, that’s politics, it’s fair game, it seems to me.

Better we know these vermin thoroughly than let them scurry around in the dark underground of the American psyche.

Michael Corleone in The Godfather Part II (1974): “My father taught me many things here – he taught me in this room. He taught me – keep your friends close but your enemies closer.”

(28 comments and running before the show begin. Gotta be a record.)

Sean, the link you sent is in itself biased, and does not prove your point.

You are aware that the governor of hawiili(republican, the state department of health stated both stated he is a U.S. citizen.

You are aware that the committee Bill Ayers and obamas was on was headed by a republican, and most of the members were as well and ill take fact check, npr, bbc, news any day before i take the rants by right-wing talk show host whose facts seem to never be there.

just one of the sentences the author of that link posted

“Only one answer: it doesn’t exist. You would think by now, after he has been President so long, the FBI could have cooked up a good forgery for him? Don’t worry, eventually some liberal progressive totalitarian creep will forge one, but the fact that they went so long without producing it proves that no valid birth certificatE ever existed or they would have produced it.”

So this guy shows biased to the extreme on this and is hardly a creditable sources for anyone others the far-right to believe. Unaware to him it has been settled over and over again by many people as stated above.

Thanks,

Wow. It is an insult to the intelligence of your listeners that you would cover this. If feeds the worst racist instincts of these so called “birthers”. It is not a cute fun story.

You are feeding hate speech and racism with this show. Nice. There is nothing to this story other than racism. Nothing. This is a “movement” by folks who hate the fact that a Black man became President. They figure if they say a big lie often enough fools will listen.

This show makes the host and producers of On Point fools.

It is disgusting.

of course these same people would be doing this for mccain as well? wait mccain a U.S. citizen cause he was born in a U.S. territory (just as obama is).

Case close amazing how any logicalperson can come to that conclusion.

If BOTH of President Obama’s parents were white, we would not be having this conversation, period.

Before the election there was a rumor that he would not take the oath on a bible. On inauguration day there was a bible but the oath was botched. When they redid the oath the next day there was no video but the NY Times reporter who was in the room said there was no bible!

Don’t you think that if he were really not eligible that the GOP party apparatus would have trumpeted this and only this? The only thing newsworthy here is that the birthers are disgruntled that he won, and are trying to smear him with this crap. Why they are sore losers is up for debate: racism, insanity, militia movement racism and insanity?

I am another frequent listener who is sad that you are spending an hour on this topic — it should take no more than a minute or two to say “these claims are lies” and that should be the end of it on any legitimate news/commentary show. There are real problems to discuss! this story is a non-issue that should be left to the unthinking and those who believe in conspiracy theories.

I refuse to listen to this show.

In this day and age why should we care if our president was born in the U.S.?

Certainly this has no bearing on their leadership ability or patriotism.

It’s so fun and amusing to see all the liberals getting so bent out of shape over this whole issue. I love it!!

Strange to give voice to a fringe group. Is there no other news?

I’m typing this at 10:10. This topic is highly stupid in so many ways, but it is interesting in terms of what it says about the behavior of voters, political tactics, psychological resistance to facts a person does not want to be true. etc.

For those reasons, I can’t wait to see if host Ashcroft has any people on the show who are REALLY qualified to discuss this matter, such as political tacticians, behavioral scientists, etc. Since the host has shown himself over the years to be none too bright, I predict he will have none of those folks on the show.

Why is OnPoint treating this story as valid news? Why give this fringe, totally debunked theory any shred of credibility? By addressing this topic, NPR just feeds the cycle. I am really disappointed.

I just want to know why he did not take the oath on a bible?

This is such a ridiculous topic for OnPoint to discuss this hour. By having a legitimate news source continue to discuss a rumor that has been proven untrue only furthers the speculation. Barack H. Obama is President of the United States…period.

I find it amusing that the nativist conspiracy nut has a foreign accent.

This is just plain foolish explored in depth,that generates more foolishness etc..Really a low point.
I dare you to play a pledge promo during this show .

Orly Taitz is an IDIOT. Lady, get a life.

I think the show would be more interesting if it addressed the conservative white male and how they feel threatened by the loss of power in the political arena.

Listen to Pat Bucannen and Bill O’Reilly and they openly go on bout this. This idea of trying to prove that Obama is not an American is one more device to frame in the lens of “other”. Not one of us. It’s not good enough that he’s an African American, no they need to prove he’s 100% non-Americian and worse in their eyes an African.

These same people are the ones who were saying Obama was a Muslim.

A show on this subject, of which this small and insignificant morsel could be a part would be interesting.

I had a bit of a difficult time understanding Orly Taitz due to a heavy accent, in the future it would be helpful to have someone “interpret”.

With all the problems in this world WBUR can’t find another subject? SHAME ON YOU !!!! By continuously talking about it, you are perpertuating this myth . IF THE HOLOCAUST CAN BE DENIED , ANYTHING CAN BE DENIED ……

Can anyone tell me why he did not take the oath on a bible?

So Wayne (@ 10:10 and 10:17),

You think Cheief Justice Roberts is IN ON IT? He is the one who decided to not read the oath (as all previous justices had done). It was the justice who messed up the oath. Really?

PS: You are off topic.

What troubles me is that many on the left (my side of the political world) allow themselves to be led by the right. The right encourages this kind of stuff because it draws the left out to do battles over non-issues. Too many of us fall for it.

We waste our time and efforts following up on sideshows like this which is, of course, is just want they want. Granted there are a few sincere nuts who truly believe things like Obama is from another planet or vile stuff such as people like him not belonging in the WHITE House. I don’t know what you can do about sincere creeps, but one way of handling cynical Republican pols — who use smears as red capes to the toros on the left — is to ignore their distractions and use all our efforts in the real policy battles.

Suppose this hour could be spent on some of the important details of health care reform which in other WBUR/NPR hours “there hasn’t been time for”?

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
US (German-born) physicist (1879 – 1955)

It matters to these people because they lost, fair and square and this is the only way they can fight back. Remember back when Bush “won” the first election, it went all the way to the Stacked Court and he was declared the winner? Many people, probably the same complainers now, told us to “get over it”. Likewise!!!

No, the issue is NOT about race; except for those that don’t want to consider the issue at all. The very same questions surround the eligibility of John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone) to be President.

However, in the long-term, it doesn’t really matter. Obama is just a puppet, taking orders from the “man behind the curtain.” It would have been the same, no matter who was (s)elected, be it democrat or republican.

I was quite surprised that OnPoint would even take this up as a topic – one about President Obama’s birth certificate. Just because CNN reports it doesn’t make it news.

It is disappointing that NPR would devote a whole hour talking about this trash.

Off the top of my head, I am fairly sure that George Washington, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson were the children of British citizens. For that matter, they were born on what was then British soil.

Perhaps they were not “natural born”…

This is the worst use of wbur air time that I can remember. Some things just aren’t worth serious discussion. On Point is contributing momentum to this ridiculous issue by devoting an hour to it.

He did not take the oath on a bible and I believe that the constitution says you have to have the bible to take the oath.

Skeptic99, check out the producers who work on this program. Go to the OnPoint page and read their biographies, every one. There are extraordinary people bringing people together to present the issues that they do.
It does NOT help, I’m sure, the producers’ attempts to bring together ALL sides, to gang up and before the show disparage the guests. If I were lined up in advance and read this forum, I would have backed right out.

I’m a lifelong Democrat.
I think Obama is a citizen because of his Mom, and was probably born in HI.

The real issue is, why hasn’t he just shown the real original birth certificate? What is on there that he doesn’t want us to see?

What is Obama hiding?

As far it affects Obama the idea that he is not a citizen is total nonsense. It is possible that some of the motivation behind the spurious claim is a desire to deny citizenship to children of illegal immigrants who are born in the US.

The issue is race and these “birthers” would have fully supported Judge Taney’s 1857 ruling that no black person— born free, freed or slave—is or ever can be a citizen. In effect they are trying to re-open the issue of whether or not blacks are essentially persons.

On the question of where this all comes from — I believe that at its root this is a /political/ issue, manifesting in racist form. There are people who can’t abide a democrat as president (as there were other people who couldn’t abide Bush), and will seek anything to discredit him. On top of that urge, they have racial misgivings.

You are under no obligation to provide a forum for people claiming our president is not a naturally born citizen. I can’t believe you are doing this. Would you do a show devoted to denial of the Holocaust?

Even if he is not an American Citizen, what do people ultimately fear Obama is going to do to this country. And do people sincerely believe he has bad intentions for the U.S. or do they just think he is not capable of running it?

Let’s call it of what it is people, racism, racism, racism pure and simple.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

Obama loves the camera, why not open his wallet pull out his birth certificate and call up a reporter and show it to them? He could flash his smile and put an end to all of this, but he does not.

It’s ridiculous. If we want proof of Obama’s citizenship, I want an equal amount of proof from every elected official in the entire United States, a nice fat database that anyone can see anytime they wish. Social Security Number and everything.

It’s only fair, right?

Wayne: “I want to know why e did not take the oath on a bible”

First:
He did, using Lincoln’s bible, the first time when the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court screwed up the ‘repeat after me’ lines. He did not the second time just to make sure no one could say he was not sworn in because he didn’t say the words in the right order. Why, because no one brought a bible

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5567187.ece

Second: There is NO requirement to say the oath with your hand on a bible. Theodore Roosevelt did not when he was inaugurated in 1901.

http://www.slate.com/id/2209134

Your question is not pertinent to the discussion.

No Mark it is not fair because where you are born is irrelevant – unless You are running for president!

Tom-

I’ve noticed that not once has the fact that John McCain was born in Panama ever been brought up. I beleive they declared that the hospital where he was born was American soil.

Paula
Boston MA

I think Bill Maher has it right. The Democrat’s are the new conservatives and the Republicans are in the nut house.

I can’t believe what I’m hearing here.
We have some real sick and dangerous people here and these right wing pundits are playing with fire.

Please quit killing my brain cells with this story. If this is what is being contemplated in the news today, I am embarrassed to be a listener of NPR. Please use your valuable voice in the Press to cover something with actual substance.

As one of the alleged 85% referred to by Orly Taitz ( granted I’m working with what I think I heard her say), I take umbrage at even being mentioned in the same sentence with her. I have to wonder at her desperation to foment this tripe. By her “reasoning,” every child born on American soil to non-American parents is not an American – think about this. Her two points: he’s not a natural-born citizen and let me finish are not worth the time of day.
I, for one, can only come up with extreme prejudice as her motivation. As for Rush, his parents misnamed him. He should have been called “Rant.”
I initially wondered why this topic is being given daylight on your show,Tom. The tape of the woman ranting in NJ was enough to make me cringe. But as I write I realize the value of shining a light into this dark and damaged corner of our society.

“He did not take the oath on a bible and I believe that the constitution says you have to have the bible to take the oath.”

Posted by Wayne, on July 27th, 2009 at 10:30 am EDT

Wayne, it takes less than 20 seconds on Google to find the Constitution. Believe it or not, the Constitution does not require that ANYONE serving the American people as a politician or a civil servant take an oath based on ANY religious faith, Christian or otherwise. As a matter of fact, it specifically prevents religion being a condition of public service.

As far as the swearing in goes, the Constitution says

“Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:
‘I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.’”

That’s it. That is the only reference to the swearing in ceremony in the Constitution. It took very little time to find this. In the time you took to type your post, you could have found your answer.

All you libs love to throw down the “racism” card before you have all the facts. That’s a typical reaction, as most libs speak based on their emotions rather than the facts surrounding the issue at hand. Fringe? So the 400,000 petition signatures collected already must just be all white racists? Come on! It’s about the law -United States Constitution Article 2, Section 1. Why does Obama refuse to produce the standard “long form” birth certificate, which lists the attending physician (Witness) and the hospital in which he was born? McCain had no problem releasing that and in fact it is the same birth certificate you and I need when applying for a US passport.

Try opening up your minds! I am very much a conservative but I listen to National Propaganda Radio as well as Oreilly and Hannity. It’s called listening to both sides and having an open mind. Gotta love NPR!

My son was born in Detroit to two Canadian citizens on american soil and is indeed an american citizen. He travels on an american passport and is declared as american when entering and leaving the country. He does not have to be natrualized he is american born to two legal immigrants. He is able to run for president as well. An example of someone who can’t is Jennifer Granholm who is the Govener of Michigan who was naturalized at age two when her parents moved here.

With these rules in place no one would be american since unless you are native american your parents were at some point foreigners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States

Todd: “However, in the long-term, it doesn’t really matter. Obama is just a puppet, taking orders from the “man behind the curtain.” It would have been the same, no matter who was (s)elected, be it democrat or republican.”

Um, what man would that be? It was certainly said, and easy to believe, that George W. Bush was the puppet of Dick Cheney but I have no idea who you think is ‘controlling’ Obama.

Wayne (@10:33), wrong again.

Cut and pasted from the Contitution posted one http://www.WhiteHouse.gov:
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—”I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Here’s the link: http://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm

And, still off topic.

The conservative GOP hierarchy, although not an originator of the movement, is cynically pushing the conspiracy-minded, fringe birthers as an additional means of challenging Obama’s presidency. To the detriment of civil discourse and of progress of any kind, the GOP’s mouthpieces fan the fears and prejudices of their listeners. The GOP strategy is to distract, delay, derail, and divert as many of Obama’s efforts as possible, simply to collect money and regain political power.

–an Independent voter

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

The “Birthers” driven by Klan and its sympathizers.

Like I said, before the election there was a rumor that he would not take the oath on a bible – seems the rumor turned out to be true – accept this as the fact that it is.

How you interrupt this is up to you.

why are rush, lou, and all the rest talking about this? because they’re also extremists.

I voted for the guy, and except for the one time he apologized for America’s “arrogance” (which horrified me) I have been relatively neutral on his overall performance. Good moves and bad ones like any president (as it should be unless you are rabidly insistent on being “liberal” or “conservative.”) To me this question is, if he is a natural born citizen, how did he qualify for a student loan that is available only to foreign nationals? At some point you have to question all of this. IT seems the answer is an easy one and why not make it plain and simply final for all to see rather than avoid it and let it gain momentum?

Overall, I wish you had not done this show — but now that you have … don’t preach to the choir but try to talk calmly to the folks outside the church.

Do NOT laugh off the opposing side when it calls in — as you just did with the man who called to say he thought the topic has not been investigated. Calmly and clearly recount the investigation — do NOT dismiss… otherwise you are fanning the flames of this movement by displaying to them that you are laughing at them rather than rebutting them.

I support WBUR’s decision to produce an enlightening program on this topic.

Ignorance and hysteria go hand in hand, it appears, on both sides of any central concept.

The “fierce chauvinism” of the so-called “birthers” needs to have a bucket of water thrown upon their crackpot theory. This show is that metaphoric bucket full of flame suppressant.

Thanks, Tom & Guests.

Wayne, the only person here trying to read anything in to that fact, is you.

Regarding the discussion about saying “I want my country back” etc.:

This is partially a symptom of the two-party system. If people only have two choices, it’s easy to have a mentality that one side is right and one is wrong.

We need to open up the national political system to third parties with positive agendas.

One last post to you, Wayne: as was reported by everyone covering the Inauguration (even FOX), and cited as by BHA in a post above, and as witnessed by MILLIONS of TV viewers and attendees, Obama was sworn in on Lincoln’s bible. He didn’t have to be sworn in on a bible, but he chose to be. Read the posts, and check out the links.

That’s it. Who cares. It makes no difference to the inanity of these claims.

I’ve grown to have a great deal of respect for naturalized citizens. As a group they are far more appreciative of what our society offers. And just like converts to Catholicism they are generally far more involved and have a greater understanding as well. So why is it so bad for a naturalized citizen to be eligible to run for President?

He was not sworn in on Lincoln’s bible or any other bible. He did not read the oath correctly, if he did then why did they redo it the next day?

Admit it people, he did not take the oath on a bible.

“On inauguration day there was a bible but the oath was botched. When they redid the oath the next day there was no video but the NY Times reporter who was in the room said there was no bible!”

Wayne, you are right; this issue has not received sufficient coverage. This courageous blogger wrote an expose last November which continues to draw comments:

http://thatsrightnate.com/2009/01/22/obama-recites-presidential-oath-on-koran/

You’ve really stirred up the nuts this time, Tom. LOL!

Welcome to the internet world of right-wingnuts!!!

Well Tom, its a lot WORSE than we think: I mean about us real Americans who are birthers. Its a known fact that in 1961 both the hospital and the newspapers in Hawaii (which by the way in NOT in America) knew, even back then, Hussein Obama would run for President 47 years later and they knew he was not born in the US of A, so they faked his birth certificate. So there: there’s your proof.

But even WORSE than that, you’ll notice that the supposed birth certificate DOESNOT say what his PLANET OF ORIGIN was. I myself am thinking either Pluto or maybe Mars. I think he looks like a Martian, don’t you ???

Can someone give me a recommendation of something else to listen to for the rest of the hour?

SWOPE, Brian, Frances, Nick, Dirk, Dennis, Lis, BP, R.M., yes yes and yes.

This is just about as bad as discussing, if the sky is blue.

“Shame on you On Point”, is right.

“Ridiculous” as I shake my head.

Wayne, what the he11 are you carrying on about?
1) Whether it was rumored before the election that Obama might not take the oath on a bible if he were elected has no bearing on anything. All sorts of people make up all sorts of rumors about everything all the time. That doesn’t make them fact nor relevant.
2) Did you miss the fact that he took the oath on camera in front of thousands of people with his left hand on Lincoln’s first inaugural bible (which is NOT necessary)?

Your harping on this and claiming the rumor proved true because he didn’t have his hand on a bible the SECOND time suggests your conclusion is related to fortune telling, not facts.

Reading these posts, it’s obvious the Left-Right, Blue-Red divide is as wide as ever. This is the underlying issue at work here. People, get a clue. It doesn’t matter which “party” is holding office, because the agenda that’s being followed remains the same either way. What’s presented in the MSM is mere window-dressing for the public.

The Democrats will follow Obama over the cliff, just as blindly as the Republicans followed Bush. As long as we allow the political system to divide us as a people, by presenting everything with the Left-Right illusion, there will continue to be blindness, cliffs, and gravity.

Michael Medved is so right about the conservatives and the Republican party and how the extreme right are gaining validity and that’s a danger. Remember Hitler’s National Socialist party was a fringe group in the late 1920’s and by 1933 he was in control.

I don’t know him very well as I don’t listen to right wing radio. Life is too short.

This is about white people losing control.
It’s about white males losing control.
It’s about race, period.

The last caller was a good example of how wacko some of these people are.

SS: “otherwise you are fanning the flames of this movement by displaying to them that you are laughing at them rather than rebutting them.”

When people so blindly follow the path, no matter how much evidence proves it wrong, no matter how far their ‘facts’ are into the realm of supermarket tabloid journalism, it is pretty hard to take them seriously.

How many times can you give a person the facts, as accepted by 99.9% when they, like Orly Taitz hanging on her definition of ‘natural born’, regardless of any prior court decisions to the contrary, as ‘evidence’ that Obama is not legally eligible to be President or Wayne and his “Obama didn’t have his hand on the bible when he took the oath” issue and not get a little frustrated?

Actually, I think Tom does a rather good job of calmly refuting all the wild claims and suspicion. I suspect many of us in his position would have a hard time not giving a verbal dope slap to some of them. I met him last fall at a VPR event and told him essentially the same thing with regard to some prior shows and callers.

The term “birther” certainly is a transmutation of the term “truther.” But the guest’s assertion, that the truthers believe President Bush orchestrated 911, is incorrect.

911 Truthers believe that the official story of the 2001 terror attacks, as outlined in the 911 Commission’s findings, are inaccurate at best and outright lies/disinformation/coverups at worst. I challenge anyone to look into the inconsistencies and details that have come to light from investigators, police and fire, and, most importantly, regular citizens putting the pieces together. Most people still don’t even know about the collapse of the third tower, WTC7, which NIST recently addressed in a little known final report about the buildings’ structural failures (the first and only of their kind).

Birthers, like Truthers, have a right wing taint to them and naturally attracts the radical racist/reactionary elements, but actually the group are mostly Independent, true patriots who have the feeling that the United States is being corrupted and destroyed in slow motion.

Michael Medved convenitently compared 9/11 Truth Movement to the Birthers; and said 9/11 Truth Movement believes and/or believes that George W. Bush “did” (or another verb) 9/11.

This is totally not true. I haven’t met anybody who every claimed that within the movement.

Even though, I did like Michael Medved’s position on the Brith Certificate, but he should not have done that. He knows better.

The people behind Birthers, according to him, are not more than 5-6 people, who pocket all the donations to keep this crap alive. But when it comes to 9/11 Truth, there are millions and millions of people throughout the world who have no direcet financial benefit for investigating and exposing what in the world has happened on that day of Sept 11, 2001.

Orly Taitz is actually a KGB sleeper agent. She is part of Leonid Brezhnevs grand plan to destroy the United States. Vladimir Putin is waiting patiently until the US goes through an internal collapse, so that Russia can recover Alaska. For confirmation, see the map by the KGB analyst Igor Panarin.

Personal disclaimer: my blood aunt comes from a (white) family that has been here in the US since 1638; my late uncle by marriage was (native) born in Shanghai China. My mixed-race cousins were born in Hawaii before statehood. So my first reaction to this topic was total pain and anger.

However, misery knows its own. That woman who shouted “I want my country back!” and the folks who cheered her on are clearly hurting.

Yes, my leftie friends felt the same way about George Bush and his arrival in the White House via legal maneuvers. But other issues are usually just under the surface. I myself tend to rail against Wall Street, but it’s the same thing.

Here’s what I think it is:

This is a nation where more and more of the average citizens find ourelves unable to gain, retain and control what we thought would be ours through hard work. We work hard in so many ways — study hard in graduate school, serve in the military, go to grinding jobs year after year — but gain no security for the long haul. We get very little money in the paycheck — even the military.

Tom, given your inclusive instinct that there was something to respect in this topic, you went about it the wrong way. You should have just said the issue was “anger about our powerlessness, and all the symbolic ways we present it in public dialogue.”
I would have liked to see “the looney left” and “radical right” lumped in together and really analyzed demographically and personally. And I agree with the poster who said that when they call in, they deserve to be treated respectfully.

The news should be about finding the truth, not putting “opposite” people on to battle it out over lies. As soon as I heard he was including that Taitz person I stopped listening. You would think giving people like this more of a platform would be giving them enough rope to hang themselves but it never happens – because “hanging themselves” is entertaining to some I guess. And I think this works both ways. There are lots of nutty ideas about Cheney (possibly my least favorite person) but I don’t agree with giving air to unsubtantiated information until we’re all sick of it.

WBUR is grasping at straws to claim this as a news topic just as these fringe right-wing nuthouses are grasping at anything their narrow minds can dream up to continue the down-with-a-powerful-black-man march to American “freedom” (translation = Purity). Wouldn’t that be cozy to live in an ethnically and intellectually cleansed country without taxation or political enlightenment, where you’d never have to travel outside of the great United States to that forbidden and dangerous land called THE WORLD? Giving a voice to this lunacy is misguided WBUR, and on that point, I happen to agree–shockingly–with the astute argument made by Michael Medved: the conservatives will never gain real traction when national spokespeople in their movement spend airtime addressing the concerns of racist conspiracy theorists.

As to the Bible nonsense (emphasizing “nonsense”):

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-Lincoln-bible_N.htm

I thought I remembered this. One more piece of Birthermania exposed as garbage.

ms

This morning’s story on the “Birthers” was absurd at best, and I’m extremely disappointed that WBUR would stoop to entertaining accusations that have been consistently debunked by reliable sources. I finally switched off the radio, finding it unbearable to listen to guests and callers who were the equivalent of Holocaust deniers.

I have come to expect intelligent, high caliber reporting from WBUR, not what amounts to inanity.

Too bad the listener couldn’t get past the fact Taitz was on. As I recall she did not stay for any dialogue with other guests, let alone callers. I saw the show as more about the roots of the birther movement than about setting up two sides to debate each other, one side trying to prove Obama ineligible for the presidency, the other trying to prove the opposite, although that hovered like a thundercloud both in the hour and here in the forum. This issue seems to me like a cancer which in a trying time in our history is finding more of a foothold than we’d like to see, apparently. “Dangerous,” I heard. As an example of somebody’s misguided theories gone lethal, the Oklahoma City bombing. Could the people/media have argued down that perspective before it happened? What does the far right think they are doing for us all?
It seems to me that On Point presents mostly one light-weight show per day, one more substantial. Per week, you can pick a couple for fun and a couple for substance, for serious learning/consideration. This one was also painful. Hopefully after this hour, the guest with 4 million listeners/callers of his own has a better foundation for continuing his job, for one thing.

Some of these same folks, before taking their current tack, were claiming that ‘He’s not a citizen because Hawaii wasn’t a state when he was born there,’…until is was universally pointed-out that it _was_ in fact such (‘But how do we really _know_?…the Democrats/Illuminati/Jews might have forged that bit of history, too!,’). Once that were dead, they switched their claims.

Some in the group, as indicated here, indicate that he can’t be President because he didn’t swear the proper oath on a Bible. This claim sounded unlikely to me, and, true enough, it’s been demolished here.

Though I have many theoretical difficulties with Freud, as a practical therapist he was pretty good. He once affirmed that when a patient gives reason after reason for a mental state or an opinion or belief, and always has another reason which may well contradict the others, it indicates that he is steadfastly avoiding disclosing the _real_ reason.

In this case, real reasons have been proposed above; my personal take is that just about everything about Obama offends a certain class of people (non-white, uses good grammar in complete sentences, appeals to reason rather than the gut, thinks macho swagger is silly, highly educated, left of Strom Thurmond). To them, he’s can’t be President because…he just _can’t_ be. I think Jim Webb’s ‘Born Fighting’, read with a more jaundiced eye than Sen. Webb’s, would be instructive in this instance.

Maybe if we didn’t think of the President as an extra member of our family, this wouldn’t hurt them so much, or me in the case that Ms Palin should ever make it to the office….

YOu can say this is equivalent to the Bush was not elected crowd but that had proof and legitimacy, this issue has neither.

Ergo, injustice continued leaves gaps in the social structure for more unfinished business.

Screw the bible… it’s pointless fairy tale tripe interspersed with some references to genuine historical places and persons.

Why would anyone with any intelligence whatever think it necessary to to assert allegience to a fairy tale when taking a serious oath?

OK… so its got some nice poetry and some fair philosophizing in it as well, but so does the Lord of the Rings.

The Wayne problem: It’s very widespread. He’s gotten to the point where it’s a matter of pride to refuse to disbelieve a lie once you’ve found it politically or emotionally convenient to believe it. Wayne may have a great empty space in his head that he’d feel uncomfortable filling with dull,hard facts.

YOu can say this is equivalent to the Bush was not elected crowd but that had proof and legitimacy, this issue has neither.

Ergo, injustice continued leaves gaps in the social structure for more unfinished, unjust business.

As an aging flower child i am certainly far from the radical right, but have been repeated disturbed over the last year or so by the degree of venom and unfairness displayed by my beloved left. The lack of manners and sense of fair play is made worse by an almost universal ignorance of the rules of logic and debate. It would be interesting to have a group of judges go over this entire issue, including the radio show and all of these comments, and attempt to give scores for debating points. To my ears, despite all this annoying din, no one has proven anything…yet.

I’m a big On Point fan but this is SO LAME! Come on, you can’t find anything more interesting to give an hour to than these jokers who have been disproved OVER AND OVER AND OVER again…what gives?

Add my voice to those incredulous that On Point would devote even 10 seconds to this non-issue. The “birthers” are no different from flat Earthers or Holocaust deniers. Maybe they’re on the schedule for later this week? I mean, there’s mountains of scientific and even photographic evidence that the Earth is a sphere, but “some people aren’t convinced!” This episode is probably the worst show I’ve ever heard on NPR and seriously makes me reconsider membership. Please Tom, stick to issues where neither side displays a complete lack of sanity.

Though I was a little perturbed by the fact that On Point even gave light to this issue, it was all made clear to me why they did when that last foolish woman called into the show. I heard her espouse at least 10 times that “THERE IS A CONSTITUTION” and “I WANT A CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH AS PROOF” intermingled with inuendo about Obama’s early education in Indonesian and his ’suspected’ birth in Hawaii/Kenya. Then my fellow, sane listeners/hosts of the show came to the rescue and exposed her obvious racism against an African American president. And then I have further confidence in America when I see the number of comments rejecting these ideas and exposing the obvious racism that still exists in America. So I pose a question to the birthers, on an intellectual level: If George Bush’s father had been European by descent and he had attended schools in France and South Africa as a child, and he spoke with a slight Canadian accent – would we be having the same discussion about his true nationality?

I usually enjoy On Point and was so disgusted to hear the topic discussed today. How could you give time to such stupidity. I could not listen to the end.

I wish NPR would discuss Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama’s attendance at the 2008 Bilderberg meeting in Chantilly Virginia. Attending this gathering as a Senator is in violation of the Logan Act. The Logan Act is a felony and carries a fine and up to three years in jail. These people are not above the law. Let’s quit debating about race and country of origin, and focus on reality. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I thought it was a great and fascinating topic. I’m not sure why there is such an anathema to discussing why a certain segment of the population believes so fervently in something that is demonstrably false.

Also, as an avid Obama supporter, I only see this issue ultimately hurting the GOP, as the great article in Politico illustrated today.

I would like to form a charity to provide the woman who was the second-to-last caller with a lifetime supply of tin foil for her and as many of her fellow “Birthers” as she would like to designate. The account will be opened at the First National Bank of Thorazine. Details to come.

Oh, and JP? I will definitely vote for The Lord of the Rings.

[...] which may have something to do with the fact that I spent an hour this morning on NPR’s "On Point" talking about the subject this morning. (The segment is worth a listen, if only for Birther [...]

Whomever was in the meeting that greenlighted this particular show should have his head examined. Giving MORE airtime to these racist idiots is beneath NPR. This is a non issue and the more viable news media who patronize these hatemongers the less room there is for REAL NEWS..remember that?

I haven’t ever heard the broadcast (aired at 8 p.m. cental time here in St. Louis) but, it is so sad. As another writer pointed out, one of the criteria for U.S. citizenship is that ONE of the PARENTS be U. S. citizens. I don’t know whether your guest this morning have any disputed claims about his mother’s ancestry, but all the evidence points to her and 3 or 4 generations being U.S. born. And if you look at pictures of her her father(the World War II Normandy vet) and her mother you can see that President Obama resembles them all! Unfortunately there was this same silliness with regard to Sen. McCain and the fact he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. His father and mother were still BOTH U. S. Citizens. As for Sen. Mc Cain that was some type of bizzare political point. I think part of this stuation with the President still derives from the fact that this BLACK man with the strange name actually became president. In other words, part of the subtext is fear and racism.

Haven’t so much as looked at “World Nut Daily” (a.k.a. World Net Daily) in years. Out of curiosity I clicked over. OMG!!! What a lunatic asylum. Now I know where the writers for the now defunct “Weekly World News” (“Elvis and Space Alien have child!”) ended up after WWN ceased killing trees in vain. I guess that, in the Internet Age, everybody can find a website to suit their tastes, even paranoid delusionals. My God!!

I am not a “Birther” but I am worried that anyone who questions anything about the president and his policies will be considered a racist. At the university I attend, I have many friends who are African American and do not support Obama and are aware of the movers and shakers of this world that he associates himself with like the Bilderberg group. They are not tin foil hat wearing right wing extremists, they are just freedom loving Americans who are sick and tired of race even being an issue. We have a liberty club at my University and the mission is to get the faculty and students of our University to see through the left right paradigm and discover who the real criminals and thieves are. My generation will become slaves paying off the debt to the private central banks who are destroying this nation. A birth certificate is the least of our worries.

This has absolutely nothing to do with race. The fact is the Constitution requires that the President be a natural born citizen. It is our Constitution and the rule of law that makes the United States a great country. Obama does not fulfill the requirement. Not only does he not fulfill the requirement but he has sealed ALL of his records so that no one can check out his background. Why? Could it be because they list him as a foreign student, not an American? Show us your COLB, Certificate of Live Birth Mr Obama and not that ceritificaTION of birth that you are trying to pass off as your birth certificate. And as for the manufactured excuse that your birth certificat was lost when Hawaii went electronic – I’ll call it what it is – it’s a lie.

Audit the Federal Reserve before its too late. This birth certificate can wait.

The FED is a private bank don’t- ya-know! If Obama cared about the youth who supported him he would get to the bottom of this. Not spend more money in his first six months than the Federal Government has spent in its entire history. I probably will not be able to get a job after college, or even get a loan to by a house or a car or pay of my student loans. Please NPR I want real news, real talk radio.

[...] it just me or does head-birfer Orley Taitz sound eerily like Arianna Huffington? (She comes on at 7:34 of the [...]

If what Birthers say about both parents having to be born in the US in order for you to be a natural born citizen, then that means that I”M NOT A US CITIZEN. And my whole life I thought that because I was born here, that makes me an American. Who am I now?

Todd,

If Hawaii issued a certificate of live birth at the request of his parents, after he was born in Kenya, it would list Kenya as the place of birth, not Honolulu.

BeckiNow, pay no attention. They’re nutcases…

Come on, WBUR, if you’re going to address this, then you should also make time to cover the SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS from David Icke that the world is run by shapeshifting 12′ tall reptilian creatures, including ones we know as Queen Elizabeth, George W. Bush, and Boxcar Willie.

I totally agree with Heidi Beirich that this needs to be talked about it and I was glad you had Dr. Orly Taitz on to show that she is full of sh**.

There’s a post I recommend NPR reads if ever they discuss this issue again. If you think it’s big now, try picturing what it will be during the Obama-Biden re-election campaign.

http://forum.colbertnation.com/tcr/board/message?board.id=TCR&thread.id=11765

Currently in cali, they are trying to pass a bill that failed the first time. It stated that if a child is born in the u.s. and the parents are not both u.s. citizens than they are not a u.s. citizens, making a conection that Orly Taitz is a Californian and this movement goes hand and hand with what they trying in Cali.

The goal is to wail and wail and hopefully that it goes to the surpme court and it will undermine one of the biggest growing group in the U.S. (latin americans) and there rights to vote.

Where is John Mccain, Lindsey Gram on this?

The FactCheck “Born” page contains an outrageous lie. They falsely claim that the 10/31 statement from HI’s DOH verified BHO was born in HI. In fact, if you read the actual statement they issued, you’ll see they said no such thing. All they said is that he has a valid cert on file, they didn’t verify he was born there, and they didn’t verify the cert shown on his site.

For the details, see my extensive, fact-based coverage:

http://24ahead.com/s/obama-citizenship

That page lists others – including Ben Smith – who’ve lied about this issue.

Wow, what a poor choice of programming- for both hours!
And what a panoply of nuts on the forum!
Cheers!

I for one like when fringe groups are given air time like this. One of the things conspiracy theorist can point to, is the media’s refusal to cover a topic. I think it is a side of America, we need to see. I don’t think this show in anyway elevated the Birthers platform. In fact it just showed how irrational and unable to have conversation these people are. Great Job!
I thought the second half on marriage was pointless , but different strokes for different folks.

24Ahead is prince of the birthers. After several miserable years of spamming countless blogs to tell people that the Mexican insurgency is coming real soon, he’s thrown his lot in with another crazy crowd, and it appears to have driven him right over the edge.

The “birther” phenomenon teaches us a few things about identity, though: I’m not sure if Lee Greenwood could prove he was a natural-born citizen if the same standards were applied to him.

Giving birthers airtime is a waste of NPR. How about taking your resources and good name and telling people how those wingnuts, Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs, and Matt Drudge have become America’s Assignment Editors on this “issue”? (Hint: Doing so may cheese off one of your guests.)

And a bit of ridicule and scorn would not be out of place here, not just to obvious jerks who call Obama an illegal alien, but to those who would “meta” this whole thing.

Birther drivers are saying, to themselves, “Look what we can make them do”. Don’t give them their objective.

Whereever I go, someone too cowardly to reveal who they are and too dumb to provide a counter-argument seems to follow, and I’m beginning to feel like I’m being stalked.

As for my coverage, I’ll let that speak for itself. Compare the link above to what you’ve heard about this from the MSM and decide. You can also do that with other pages like this:

http://24ahead.com/s/national-council-la-raza

I’ll tell you the facts that NPR would never dream of telling you.

After listening too the show I was of two minds.
On one hand I still found it an absurd bit of nonsense.

On the other it was interesting hearing some of the extreme right call in and comment.
Heidi Beirich made some very valid points in airing this show and I found myself nodding in agreement that these issues and groups need to be constantly monitored and debunked.

What was disturbing was the how most of the callers validated that this is not about Obama being an American it’s about making him something less than. The callers and the likes of Gordon Liddy are define Obama as other. Just as Dobbs is and all the rest. Dobbs also debases poor Mexicans illegal and other wise. He wants his status a white man of privileged defined and validated.
The illegal immigrant is an easy target.

Interesting to note that in some parts of Europe this kind of prejudice is being directed towards Gypsies.

The show did one thing for me, it scared the hell out of me. Some of the people who called in had so much hate and were seeing this as almost a state of war.
It’s as if some foreigner has taken over the country and is going to turn to into a socialist state. (and this includes the Jewish members of the cabinet).

Sometimes it seems that some of the right wing shock jocks can’t make up their minds as to weather Obama is trying to turn the country into another Russia or a fascist state. This is a bit of confusion no doubt based on a lack of education.

I wonder if this kind of thing keeps up are we destined to head towards another civil war based on the extreme left right divide?

Jon H. wrote: “Come on, WBUR, if you’re going to address this, then you should also make time to cover the SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS from David Icke that the world is run by shapeshifting 12′ tall reptilian creatures, including ones we know as Queen Elizabeth, George W. Bush, and Boxcar Willie.”

Earthling, you have discovered our secret. That is your misfortune. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile…

24AheadDotCom you are making the case that extrme right is nothing more than a bunch of loony tunes. Dangerous, but loony.

Your web site is so full of absurd hateful rhetoric.
You offer not one once of information that is true or based on any facts. You come on this forum and rant about some paranoid nonsense. Then you hide behind a facade and then accuse others of being cowards.

I read your blog for what about ten minutes. You offer not one fact. It’s all propaganda and rants about people you don’t like. Be a real man or woman, post your name and e-mail. Your a typical zealot.

I am furious that you gave these right wing nut job “birther” racists air time. If this was done to try to promote “balance,” it was a very poor decision. Giving ignorant racists a platform is not balanced journalism; it is irresponsible journalism.

The “Birther Movement” has to be explained psychologically, because the evidence is so completely against them. There is no doubt a lot of sublimated racial prejudice involved. There is no doubt a lot of feeling of disenfranchisement involved. These people are psychologically invested in being victims of forces way out of their control, and they are lashing out against the world that has moved beyond their ability to understand it.

Birthers are right wingers who are mislead or whom want to be mislead. Every time a Democrat is elected this sort of thing happens. Seeds of doubt are promoted to help the right wing agenda. This is done by Rush, Lou and the like by continuing to repeat big lies until some people believe them. With Clinton it was constant talk on the right of unmarked government helicopters filled with jack booted government agents to take away rights and guns from citizens. Now birthers are trying to whip up doubt about President Obama’s qualifications. Such doubt leads to better acceptance of other right wing led beliefs about Democrat’s interest in taking away precious guns or hurting citizens by forcing health care upon them.

It is interesting that the other main candidate in the 2008 election was born in Panama and some question if that makes Senator McCain natural born……..so it goes.

This is the first On Point discussion website that has descended into 4chan and freeper territory. Oh sorry, people here might not know what that means.

Please forgive me for saying this on one of these usually sane and measured forums:

Freeper Alert!

This isn’t so much about race as it is about sore losers. They attacked Pres. Clinton for 8 years with rumor, innuendo, etc about hit lists and all kinds of illegal activity which they never came up with any real evidence of.

This is simply some Republicans and some Hillary Clinton supporters not being able to get over the fact that they lost.

Please understand–the birthers’ issue is whether Obama is a “natural born” citizen, not just any old citizen.

However, anyone born by Caesarean is obviously not “naturally born”.

The birthers intend to favor wide-hipped women with a large birth canal, so those “unnaturally born” are ineligible to become President.

This is just another part of the wacked out right wing Republican party who just cant stand president Obama as president.
This shows you how bad talk radio has gotten… how it just trash. Time people we react to these fools and put this foolishness away. Time we start a snuff out talk radio campaign. Turn off Rush, and all the other rank talk radio shows out there.. Talk radio has become the new Jerry springer. They put out what ever trash its out there.. And whats even worse. There is a small minority of people who are stupid enough to believe this junk who can cause trouble.. needs to stop now.

I wonder how large an intersection exists between “birthers” and “intelligent design” proponents.

The rancor, arguments, and word choice of these two groups are frighteningly similar.

I can’t believe you are providing an outlet for this nonsense. This is not up to On Point’s usual high standards.

He speak and write english I am sure he born in the Unite State.

Michael Medved says that a lot of this is about money–which actually surprised me because I hadn’t thought of that.

But it makes sense because a real cottage industry grew up around Clinton conspiracy theories (remember the Vince Foster murder accusations?) and some people make a LOT of money.

I didn’t catch all the program nor am i a daily listener. I heard the last 17 minutes or so. I believe there is a chance that Barack Obama is hiding SOMETHING – so why does he not just provide what is asked for?

But frankly, the discussion was drowned out for me, by the HATERS who are called liberals. The panel members were really attacking me. I am a Republican and a Christian and i believe in Creation. Never mind that I was being laughed at and scoffed at, but i was being accused of being a member of the KKK and labeled as the Unabomber -repeatedly. I wish Mr. A would have said, “Let’s remember, there is no real proof of evolution, that a Republican with a strong opinion or cause is not necessarily a racist or member of the KKK, and that most Christians will NOT run out and blow up a building any time soon.” I heard too many of these comments to believe they were random or said in jest – so allow me a rebuttal – i fear this is a serious movement, by media-controlling liberals to once again discredit ME (cuz you do control the media).

I did NOT find this to be a discussion about Obama and his birth certificate – it was, rather, several minutes of acute HATRED toward ME. That’s all i heard. Thanks so much for convincing me to fight ever harder to maintain/reclaim my rights. Thanks. I will definitely become a Birther after this. This is NOT off topic, because your show was basically “Let’s ‘kill’ some Christians today” – Remember – as soon as the phrase ‘don’t believe in evolution’ comes up, that is code for Christians. Why even say ‘evolution’ otherwise? No point – no relation to a birth certificate. I expect you to NOT publish this – so. Thanks anyway.

Who is this woman? She sounds as if she has some level of mental illness. How embarassing. Was she even born in this country? It sounds as if she has an “accent” from another country or a speech impediment. Why is she given the floor to talk? We are not interested in her insanity. We have an economy to fix and children to educate. “Birther Movement” sounds like an “Idiot Movement.” You had the audacity to play a blurb from Rush Limbaugh…But he’s a drug addict. That’s why he has to show so many documents. It’s because he’s on drug. Is this a joke? Come on “On Point.” You have lost major “cool” points with me tonight. I may have to change the station and listen to Rush Limbaugh…What a joke? And what the he– is a “brown shirt.” I have brown skin…Is she talking about me? Who is this b@#$%

I never thought I’d say it: I am officially a fan of a right wing talk radio host.

Michael Medved did a terrific job on this show. It’s great to hear some sense coming from that part of the political spectrum.

@ Christopher…I agree. I feel sick listening to this. It’s so negative and foul. Look at the mess the country is in. Have people forgotten? Why are we wasting our time with this? The President is doing his job. OMG! America…I’m sick. Plus, who cares what that Dick’s daughter/son has to say? Dios Mio! I’m done. Would the separatists please pack up and leave? I want a union…not anarchy. How embarassing…the Europeans should be cracking up right about now!!!! Whyyyyyyyyy!!!??? Are Americans this IGNORANT AND INSANE! HOW SHAMEFUL! I’M GOING ON FACEBOOK…at least the children on my page are intelligent.

Tom, you repeated several times that Hawaii destroyed all of their paper records when they went to digial record keeping in 2001. This is not true.

“I am not aware of any birth certificate records that have been destroyed by the department,” Janice Okubo, public information officer for the Hawaii DOH, told WND. “When the department went electronic in 2001, vital records, whether in paper form or any other form, [were] maintained. We don’t destroy records.”

We don’t even know which hospital President Obama was born in. A long form birth certificate, which the Hawaii DOH says exists but has not received permission from the President to release, would show the hospital and the attending physician.

This entire controversy would go away if only President Obama permitted the Hawaii DOH to release the long form document.

Are there Christians who are taught that in order to be Christian everyone must believe in Creation, and believe in Creation the same way, a way that denies scientific truth its place in Creation? Must Christians all corner themselves so as to feel threatened by Democrats, who in turn feel threatened by the attitudes of such Christians? I think it is the hate that is being reviled, not the Christians, nor the Republicans. The blind hate.
Once upon a time (in the ’50s), the GOP was the party of opportunity, of forward motion, of leaving the past behind. I was born into that, that big Dwight David Eisenhower smile that had won a war and saw infinite horizons. But the Republicans to me are a bit like Santa Claus, not as advertised. They could use a major makeover. We need a viable two-party system. Not an uncivil hate-fest.

I’m surprised that on a show meant to address one lunatic conspiracy theory, guest Michael Medved was allowed to pass another conspiracy theory as fact–and no one challenged him on it. Medved said conservatives were finally gaining traction on their issues like–and here I quote–”government takeover of health care.” What the heck? Has Medved actually read HR 3200 or any of the other bills under consideration? There’s no jackbooted conspiracy to take over health care. That’s a huge red herring. What Congress is actually considering is a proposal that would give Americans a choice of private insurance–or public insurance. You’d see the same docs, use the same hospitals, and if you like your plan, you can keep it. But affordable insurance would be available to everybody, including the 14,000 Americans who are losing their insurance every day. Medved’s entitled to his own opinion–not his own set of facts. I’d like to hear this correction made on the air as well.

@ kiri…you are cracking me up…thanks. I had four children in America by cesarean…I guess I’d better return them to my uterus…they are “uterians.” LOL.

@ Jory — WTF! Please take your medicine. It’s okay, Precious.

Omama needs to produce his true birth certificate not that generic document Hawaii passes out trivially. That would end the controversy. Lou Dobbs of CNN has only asked for this. The left has gone to bullying their critics instead of presenting the facts.

Janice Okubo, if quoted exactly, would be saying just the opposite of what John assumes she means. (If Hawaii is hiding something, we the Peole would never have let Obama run, let alone elected him.) She would be saying that in going digital Hawaii has been “preserving” the records, not destroying them. They are probably located in a computer, on disks. An example of “destroyed” records would come if you are going after records of soldiers from World War II. Apparently a fire around 1977 destroyed a humongous lot of such records, including my father’s. Had they been digitized, an archive would probably have survived somewhere.

Thank you On Point, for addressing this issue, and clearly exposing its falsehood.
In 2004 Democrats thought they could play high and mighty, and didn’t dignify the Swiftboating with a response. What happened?

Instead of burying our heads in the sand, when false accusations are made, we have to address them head on, and dismantle them for all to see, preferably within the same news cycle.

Thanks On Point for the forum!

I’ve often wondered what it is about this man (Mr. Obama) that sparks such incredible suspicions, aside from being a politician I mean. From government-sponsored chem-trials, to questions of birth certificates to gun-hoarding and so-on… I’d like to think that it’s just a small handful of folks that are this frightened by things, but I’m not so sure. I’m just very, well, surprised by all of this, though I probably shouldn’t be.

Tom…let me explain to you this topic (the Birthers)…I will net it out simply…… RACISM! The USA owns a viciously oppressive history! The history of the USA = burned witches in Salem, the slaughter of the native American Indians, and the most destructive war by far in our history…North vs South…over what? SLAVERY! And then for another century Jim Crow, segregation, and the KKK. Take a brief survey across the world of blog and any subject that relates to our President…one finds that hate, bigotry, and RACISM stains the bits and bytes of subjects of national importance. PURE RACISM! The fact is if Barack was white…his birthplace=non-issue.

My question is WHY is this topic on your show? Why provide a platform for Orly Taitz, an individual that is incapable of coherent discourse and is perhaps insane! I do not care if cable TV starts a 7 X 24 Birthers Channel…On Point is above such a topic!
Fortunately I do not own a TV. With your Birthers show on this evening…fortunately there is Eric in the Evening to turn to. Where are the programming priorities and values?

This is a pathetic showing by On Point, and illustrates an unfortunate trend in journalism (reporting anything that someone happens to scream loudly about, regardless of how absurd it is).

You don’t give time to people who believe in Bigfoot, or that Elvis is alive, or who wear aluminum foil helmets for fear the government is reading their thoughts. With these people you make the only logical choice, to ignore them, instead of allowing them to drag down the level of discourse we need in order to deal with actual problems facing our nation.

If the facts don’t bear out a story, don’t report one.

As a huge Obama supporter, I must say I love this nonsense.

The best comment of the “On Point” piece, was that the GOP has to go home on break to talk about health care and this movement threatens to turn their town halls into freak shows.

It almost makes me want to give money to that russian dental/lawyer to support this movement.

Unfortunately, it is all fun and games, till some wacko decides he needs to get the US back and commits an act of violence. That would be sad.

If Obama really is a drug dealing terrorist who was born in Kenya, that just goes to show you that anyone can come to the US and make something of themselves. That is the American Dream

I would like to know if anyone posting here has done any research beyond factcheck or Googling for information about Obama’s background? I have. The paper that is being shown is a birth certification. That is not at all the same as a birth certificate which is also called a COLB or Certificate of Live Birth. A birth certification does Not prove where a person was born. Obama could have settled this question a year ago by producing his COLB. We all have one. Where is his?
And again, please check this, Obama has sealed ALL of his records so that you and I cannot see them. Why? Check it out.

Brilliant observation, Andrew. I confess that I am enjoying the “Birthers” controversy with great joy and shadenfreude. The GOP has hitched its wagon to the far right, fundamentalist, “family values” (unless you are a horny Rep Senator or Governor), wingnut fringe of its “base” and is now reaping the whirlwind. Hoisted on their own petards. Loving it. The GOP can now anticipate one of these Freeper loonies jumping up with a birth certificate at every rally, while the rest of the Lee Greenwood-luvin’, SUV-drivin’, gay bashin’ patriots are a-hootin’ and a-hollerin’… You can’t buy entertainment like that…

“Putney Swope” (perhaps a relative of “luther blissett”) smears me, but doesn’t offer even a single thing I’ve gotten wrong. Unfortunately, that appears to be de rigueur in these parts, as closed-minded “liberals” recoil in horror that those who disagree with them should be allowed to speak.

If anyone wants to learn the *facts* of this matter, see this:

http://24ahead.com/s/obama-citizenship

Feel free to check out my facts using the original documents, and compare what I write at that page to what NPR would tell you.

I was deeply disappointed in your program when it aired this evening. You began with insulting the concept, ridiculing the idea and continually asking people “Why does it matter?”. Your implication is that it is too late and does not matter. It matters because it is a question of the Constitution of the United States. How can disregarding the Constitution not matter? Has this country come to that? We have had that document- which is our country, torn to shreds, not only by Republican politicians but Democrats as well. It is not an issue of party or race, the issue is about Americans are tired of being ignored, ridiculed, insulted, and lied to by our “leaders”.
The way you and your guests mocked, accused, insulted, and berated anyone who disagreed was shameful and unprofessional. If I want that type of discussion, I’ll watch cable news; which I refuse to do. I thought NPR was open to serious discussions, not demonizing and shamefully using the race card and fear mongering by relating those who think this to Timothy McVeigh types. Promoting this “white homegrown right wing terrorist” lie is disgusting.
People who believe in the Constitution and this country are not the enemy, ignorance is. I was eager to listen to tonight’s show as I was curious as to why this is believed, but all I got from the show tonight was mudslinging. I was sickened by your approach to these people who see the importance of upholding our country and founding document.
NPR has had shows discussing how language controls the debate. If that is true, you and your guests engaged in a fascist assault on alternative ideas.
You have lost a long time listener,

Your program on the Obama natural born citizen issue was intellectually dishonest, a cascade of innuendos. The central issue is the simple fact that Obama has stubbornly refused to release the original vault copy of his birth certificate. During his campaign, Obama presented a certificate of live birth, an abstract made long after the fact, a document of doubtful authenticity which does not bear raised seal of the issuing authority. The vault copy of a birth certificate c. 1961 would typically be typewritten, include the pen and ink signatures of some of the parties, and furnish details as to the attending physician, hospital, parents, etc. A specimen copy of a real Hawaii birth certificate c. 1961 is displayed on the right-wing site World Net Daily. If Obama were to produce this original or vault copy, his position would be much stronger. Instead, he has been fighting in court to prevent it from being released. Why does he not release it? Suspicion is growing that the reason is that he was born elsewhere. This means he is not eligible to be president, and our country faces an enormous constitutional crisis. Annenberg Fact Check has a huge conflict of interest, since Obama is the former president of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a project for dubious social engineering in the Chicago school system. Your allegations that reactionaries and racists originated this issue and own it are absurd. The first legal action was initiated at the Supreme Court before the Democratic National Convention last year by Philip J. Berg, a Philadelphia lawyer who has been a Democratic party state and county official and a candidate for governor and US Senator in the Democratic primaries. Since you chose to invite the erratic Orly Taitz on your program, listeners should turn to Berg’s web site, Obamacrimes.com to set the record straight. Berg’s legal actions have been blocked so far exclusively on the issue of standing, and not on the merits. When the issue of standing is resolved, the Hawaii documents, if any, will be subpoenaed.
I myself have written two books about the current tenant of the White House – Obama The Postmodern Coup, and Barack H. Obama: The Unauthorized Biography. My finding as a biographer is that there is no courtroom quality evidence that Obama was born in the United States, and that he may have become a citizen of Indonesia when his mother migrated there. My biography of Bush the elder was the first to prove the complicity of Prescott Bush in the Thyssen money apparatus which supported Hitler. My objection to Bush the younger was that he trampled on the US Constitution and needed to be impeached. Now we are told by liberals that the “natural born citizen” clause needs to be ignored. They find it quaint, as the neocons like Medved said of the Geneva Convention. Surely the lesson is that we need to respect the Constitution in all its provisions, since the alternative is to fall under the rule of demagogues of the left and right who view the Constitution as a delicatessen where they can choose the parts they like and ignore others. You owe your listeners an apology for your one-sided, neo-McCarthyite broadcast.

[...] trying to talk to Sussex County citizens about health care reform. Conservative talk radio host Michael Medved today told NPR’s On Point that “conservatives need to speak out against it and be clear and not play games like Liz Cheney [...]

Prove you are legal by producing a certified birth certificate and the case is closed. I have one in a safe place because it is required in many cases for proof. A simple solution to this problem. McCain had to show his. By the way, doesn’t African-American imply you were born one place and now live in another. Why is Obama not called a bi-racial American, that is his heritage is it not. I could care less what notation we give to him as long as he governs correctly, but only time will tell that. By the way, if you believe in evolution it will make a monkey out of you. If you believe Congress is out for your good, then you will be broke.

Mr. Tarpley, Thank you. People need to understand what is going on with Mr. Obama. People take everything at face value. All is not as it seems. And I continue to ask why Mr. Obama will not let us see his school records. Why are they sealed? We need answers to what is going on here.

Orly Taitz was born in Russia (former USSR). We all know USSR and KBG was hell bent on destroying USA. Well USSR didn’t but Orly Taitz is sure trying. KBG will be proud of her.

The question of Obama’s American citizenship may have originated from both black and white people, democrat and republican, but that does not preclude it from being a racist line of questioning and maybe even more so a deeply xenophobic one reminiscent of Nazi Germany’s hatred and suspicion of Jews et. al. Imagine if Hitler had Rush Limbaugh as a mouthpiece. Yes, the right wing conservative media jumped on the bandwagon and whipped up the controversy for the sake of ratings and pushing their political agenda. One paranoid caller calling for the live birth certificate called Obama an “Alien,” which I find offensive, not to mention unpatriotic! Good for you Tom for having the guts to stand up to her and others and for asking the tough questions. I think NPR did a great job of covering the conversation and not pandering to the racists and fear mongers, but taking a stand.

Orly Taitz is a Russian Othodox jew; even though she has denied it in the past… she sent her sons to Jewish schools.

Obama is Bad for Israel…. so, you make the connection.

Looks like somebody censored the comments since I was here last. Guess that’s why the site was down for a while this afternoon. Interesting to note some of the particular comments that were *not* chosen for removal.

By the way, “Lilya”–if Taitz is who she says she is, she was apparently not born in Russia but in Moldova. However, a lot of journalists are referring to her as “Russian-born,” so public confusion about this detail would be understandable.

I don’t think the producers of On Point read these.
However it appears that someone on their staff has been doing a major cleaning of responses on the forum as well as a re shuffle of the order they have been posted.

They come across as this so called fair and balanced show and yet they remove comments at will for no apparent reason. What gives?

Several of my comments are gone as well ass a bunch of others and the order is all screwed up.

My apologies to On Point.

Seems the server crashed and they lost a lot data.
Seems a backup of some kind is in order.
They posted the message on another thread.

Again sorry for jumping to conclusions. This thread is all out context now…

COULD SOMEONE PLEASE FIX THE LINK SO I CAN LISTEN TO THIS SHOW ONLINE. THANK YOU.

Putney: Thanks for walking that one back! And yes, we do read these comments. We’ve chosen to apply a relatively light hand when it comes to moderating these threads. But, as we state, “we may delete comments that we judge to be off-topic, unduly repetitive, or that descend into personal, ad hominem attacks.”

I’m told by the WBUR technical team that there’s little hope of restoring the messages that were lost due to the server crash. I’m sorry about that. Again, it was not an editorial decision on our part. It was strictly a technical failure.

Wen Stephenson
Senior Producer

Wes thanks for the update.
Lesson to be learned here don’t jump to conclusions.

As far as the data is concerned, well stuff happens and as Charles Dickens wrote, “worse things happen at sea”.

The more attention insane right wing idiots like the birthers gain in the national media the better it is for the Democrats.

It’s ironic that they don’t realize that they’re shooting their own party in the foot, but it’s already been established that they’re complete idiots so no surprise there.

The lack of condemnation for all kinds of crazies in the Republican party stems from the fact that, privately, if not publicly many in the party agree with their views. You don’t have to go very far. After all their VP candidate was one of these crazy idiots. Let’s not pretend like these views are of some fringe minority in the party.

That’s one of the reasons I’ve gotten further and further away from it. I used to like a lot of the Republican party platforms, but in the past decade it’s become a party of insane morons. Sad, but true.

Thank you for this program. I was informed and am sharing the link with my friends.

Man. The people saying PROVE IT OBABAMA , meanwhile its been out on the net sine the election.

Love ya America, but your crazies really are the craziest!

best regards from down under

Don

Hawaii says it destroyed no documents. So there is still the question of why the original handwritten birth document is being kept hidden.

Unreasoning secrecy generates intense curiosity.

I am a professional who attends law school in the evening. I have often had people unfamiliar with law school ask why you cannot [an accredited] attend law school online. Orly Taitz, and her online “law degree”, answers this question in a way I could never fully articulate.

Chris I don’t have a Certificate of Live Birth. I’m an American citizen, period.

My grandmother did not have any documents to prove she was born here. They were lost. She was an American citizen.

You people who are supporting this really need too find something else to do with your time. Obama is the president, get over it. Keep up this nonsense and you’ll never have a chance of winning back the White House in 2012. This kind of thing makes the republicans look like the crazy party.

By the way on the same subject what about McCain, he was born in Panama. I suspect he’s an American citizen as well.

One more question, how did Obama’s mother get from Hawaii to Kenya and then back the USA? I mean this is what you people are suggesting. That she suddenly flew to Kenya to have the baby and then flew back. Completely bonkers.

Orly Taitz is a Russian Othodox jew; even though she has denied it in the past… she sent her sons to Jewish schools.

Obama is Bad for Israel…. so, you make the connection.

Orly Taitz may be many things, a Russian Orthodox Jew is not one of them. She seems to be Jewish or maybe not, but this has no baring on anything other than something for the bigots of the world too use for their own personal gain.

I for one think she shows herself to be an extremist.
Her comments on the show clearly point out how absurd these views are. She was inarticulate and she rambled.

why not to vote republican.beside the fact they have no new plans, goals, thoughts, beholding to the far right extremist often racist, fearful or scared of anything differnt from them.

A poll just came out and only 42 percent of republicans believe obama is a U.S. citizen,goes to show a indication of where the parties at and whoses running it.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/08/01/Poll-Birthers-Republicans-Southerners/UPI-70871249143676/

I hope everyone realizes that the extremist currently run the party and anything moderate will not be coming out of the republican party for awhile.
Posted by mike, on August 2nd, 2009 at 8:56 pm EDT

“Trying to analyze the ‘birther’ phenomenon would mean taking it seriously, and taking it seriously would be like arguing about the color of unicorns. About all that can be said is that a bunch of lost, confused and frightened people have decided to seek refuge in conspiratorial make-believe. I hope they’re harmless. And I hope they seek help.” -Eugene Robinson

Thank you Tom and On Point for producing this show. Not for schadenfreude, not because of my political persusasion, or exposing “nuts” or whatever. My reason is simple: this is FASCINATING. In a scary way.

We live in a world where people deny clear scientific facts: evolution, 9/11, the Holocaust, Truthers, Birthers, racists, the list goes on and on and on.

It’s just fascinating to me to peer into the mindset of ‘these’ people; it’s also quite scary. One of your guests mentioned the uptick in these types of things before the Oklahoma City bombing.

For everyone here who thinks this was a waste of time: Well, sure, of COURSE Obama is a US Citizen. I don’t see that as the point of this broadcast. I see it as peering into the minds of a certain “type” of people, the nature of truth and of living in an open society, and the nature of the Internet.

I don’t know what to think of them: Are they crazy? Are they just in denial? Are they racists? Are they uneducated? Some combination? And what do we do about it?

How about the huge number of people in the US who don’t understand the scientific method, the definition of a “fact”, or believe every conspiracy theory? Is there something within our society that causes people to push beliefs as fact?

This is a deep poison, and one that actively harms society and our progress as a civilization.

[...] movement has been dubbed the “Birthers” — a play on the word “Truthers,” who believe that the September 11 terrorist [...]