who cares. an electric sports car for the super-rich. and ashbrook gives him a free 1 hr long commercial. man of the people speaks again from his bully pulpit. way to go tom.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Tesla Motors company has filed for chapter 11.

This is interesting, I hope the On Point people have done there homework and have soem hard questions for this man, if not shame on them for using an hour for this guy to promote his expensive electric toy:

http://www.edn.com/blog/1700000170/post/1810041581.html

From last year, Tesla Motors seeks 400 Million bailout, how about asking why this man’s company should get a dime of tax payer money.

http://forcechange.com/2008/11/19/tesla-motors-seeks-400-million-from-potential-bailout/

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/daimler-takes-a-stake-in-tesla-motors/

http://blog.mlive.com/businessinnovation/2009/06/tesla_motors_blessed_with_fede.html

[...] [...]

Tom,

As I understand it, Tesla uses lithium-ion batteries in its vehicles. These batteries are reported to lose 20% of their capacity each year, and may have a life expectancy of about three years from the date of manufacture.

Is this true of the batteries in the Tesla? If not, what is their life expectancy and how does this effect the range of the vehicle over time? What is the cost of replacing the vehicle’s batteries?

Thanks!

I am waiting for a car about a third the size of today’s small cars, golf-cart size, and I am not going to be paying extra for acceleration or speed. If I want to go great distances, I will rent a hyper car.
I can’t believe there isn’t humongous demand, since this is the basic need: a sheltered vehicle, small enough to be efficient, able to go uphill when needed.
Selling that would be a service to the planet as well as the driving public. Does Tesla have a plan to get there? It looks like speed and size are about the same as before.

Here’s an interesting aspect about electric cars:

Nissan Adds ‘Beautiful’ Noise to Make Silent Electric Cars Safe

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aOk3fMO.kupc

Elon and Tom,

Would you discuss the possibility of making cars that are able to electronically and physically hitch? The cars with combustion engines would give battery powerered cars virtually unlimited range. More than than, intrinsic reductions in aerodynamic drag and weight suggest a possible doubling in energy efficiency. Even more important to commuters in many markets, three connected vehicles would use the same amount of road space as one conventional vehicle. Much of the time one need not drive and could talk on the phone, pay attention to the kids, sleep, etc. There are more details at the web site.

We are looking for a private partner like Elon to put up the “co-pay”, about 20%, for a federal grant of about $4 million in order to build prototypes. Are you interested?

Bruce McHenry

Check out the facebook group I started to help promote tesla http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=teasl&init=quick#/group.php?gid=37116239071

I guess I am waiting for 4th generation, but I am waiting not for a price point but a weight point. A vehicle that can be scooted around town that is as small as I need is easy to steal, so it would need to be carried up flights of stairs. Maybe the battery could be locked up in the cellar for charging. So I’m thinking the car I want would have plastic roof and sides. That’s my buy-point.

I love your idea Bruce, but where’s your website?! Did you forget to provide the link?

Is there any possibility of creating a solar powered or electric/solar hybrid?

@Bruce McHenry,

I’ve had a similar idea for years. My idea involves coupling cars on highways to achieve greater efficiency due to less drag, allow energy transfer (as you point out ) but also allow for automation – autopilot – and thus allowing safer faster speeds. The cars would decouple from the car-train whenever someone needed to turn off onto an exit and then recouple. The auto-piloted car-trains would have their own lane(s), with embedded sensors for positioning and precise orientation.

Nice to hear others are thinking about ways to make travel efficient and safe.

Roman

I love the idea of an electric car, and I am looking for the $30,000 price point. I like the previous comment about solar charging the car, because if you plug in and your electricity comes from dirty coal plants, how are you saving the environment?

Can’t you use kinetic energy from the wheels rotating etc. to charge the battery?

Are there not better batteries in existence? I am almost positive there are.

Why not go all out and give us he best you have now. Why are we wasting our time and money with antiquated technology?

If this guy wants to move to electric cars as a way to solve pressing social and environmental problems with electric cars, then I was wondering if he has thought about the resource sufficiency of electricity? Replacing oil with coal and will do very little to reduce greenhouse gas emissions but that’s just what an electrified fleet would do. Both coal and oil need to be replaced to engender a sustainable economy. However, the EIA projects electricity demand doubling over the next few decades which means that solar, wind etc will have their hands full just replacing coal. So how can an even a new smart grid supply both our electricity and transportation demand using wind, solar, and enhanced geothermal (watch for earthquakes!!)? I think these types of energy sources will have their hands full just replacing coal, add to that a huge demand for transportation energy, and I think we’ll quickly run out of clean energy which means that an electrified fleet will just replace oil with coal, solving few environmental problems.

If i trade my fleet of small courier vans runing 200 miles per day open interstate mostly..

Would the Tesla sedan exceed 150,000 miles of life ?

What is the expected life of the vehicle… i have heard much of the life of the battery but not the car as a whole.

Your cars are sexy and fast — and I want one! But do they work in the dead of winter in Boston or Toronto or Chicago? Also, how do I have them serviced?

– Rex in Braintree

P.Swope: you are indeed wrong.

The answer to the question, “Where will the power to the charge the vehicles come from?” was breezed over by Musk. It’s illogical to throw money at electric cars until we stop producing so much of our electricity through fossil fuels. Why isn’t the government throwing billions of dollars at start-up companies who want to put wind turbines in every yard and solar panels on every roof. When I can go into Wal-Mart and buy a replacement solar cell, we’ll have made progress. Until then, I’m keeping my gas-powered vehicle. It gets better mileage, and it’s staying out an environmentally-damaging landfill/scrapyard.

These Tesla cars are fantastic and exciting but when will the average buyer be able to get a real work, every day electric car? I’m motivated to buy electric but there are no cars to choose from on the market.

Why do we need to go 0 to 60 in 6 seconds or 110 mph top speed in any vehicle let along an electric vehicle?

re: why it has taken so long to get started on fuel efficiency and electric cars—
we have had 40 years to move on this isssue (and europe took some advantage of the last four decades), but look to the american auto industry! the companies, the unions, the michigan congressional delegation and, to an extent,the american public have been fighting tooth and nail against any movement toward fuel efficiency!!!!
Pogo was right!!!!

Mr. Musk dropped a 250 mpg (not range) figure. That appeared to be a gross exaggeration so I did some fact checking and came up with a realistic 38 mpg, not bad.

The following is taken from the Tesla car club site:

I’m sticking to the 33,705 Wh/gal number, which seems to the most scientifically sound number for plug-to-wheel efficiency conversions. MPG for electric vehicles don’t make much sense (Wh/mi is much better), but it’s still useful for comparing, esp for explaining to the layman.

Since we are talking about efficiency anyways I used the 0.321kWh/mi provided by Tesla and then the 12,307 Wh/gal number given in the EPA document which factors in the avg efficiency of US fossil fuel plants, transmission, petroleum refining & distribution and came up with 38.34mpg. Which means on average, powered by US fossil fuel plants, the efficiency from fuel-to-wheel in the Tesla Roadster is about 38.34mpg, which is not bad. The Lotus Elise SC (probably the closest gasoline powered car to the Tesla Roadster) gets about 20/26 mpg.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/tesla-roadster/1280-mpg-equivalent.html

Thanks, Jemimah. It turns out that the website field in the form at the end of this page turns into a link on the name field. So, the site I gave is http://Roadtrains.us.

However, I arrived at that conclusion after studying innovative transportation technologies for about five years. Here’s my land transportation tech agenda: http://discussit.org/transportation

Thanks also to Roman Dvoskin for the supportive comment. You may want to join us at the Roadtrain.us site. It is built on social networking so you could copy your post there. As a brief remark, I think fully automated driving will be market worthy at low speeds and risks long before it is ready to be used on the highway at high speeds. The driver will be aided electronically, but not replaced for quite some time.

By the way, the remarks here suggest that car roadtrains merit discussion in the context of all-electric cars. Unfortunately, the shows producer decided not to take my question for Elon on air. I have also been unable to get past his secretary in order to talk with him.

Two questions are unanswered:

1. Batteries don’t work as well when cold. How will the electric car perform in subzero weather; specifically how will range and power change.

2. How will the car hold up in the salt filled northeast winters.

As far as the environment goes, a single source of energy for the many vehicles to get people point to point is a better focus to create a clean source than the many not so efficient, poorly maintained, or modified combustion engines on the road.

As far as price, a standard Lotus with a gas engine goes for around $65k not so far really from the 109k for an all electric vehicle. The price per mile is about 1/10th.

I believe this is a good focus for future transportation that has the convienience factor that people insist on and governement are unwilling to invest in.

I mostly go around by bicycle. I try to imagine a car with no engine noise and the acceleration capacity cited. I sure hope that vehicle is butterfly-weight because I won’t have much chance against it. I understand that noise is being required by Codes. But it would be better to have near-range standards (for cities) and long-range standards. In London, where there is a fee for driving in the city (except for Smart cars, I understand), besides public transportation, there would be legal vehicles designed to be small and efficient, with park-and-ride centers for swapping out from your big vehicle to something petite for in-city, much as bicycles can be used as a public facility in Paris.
Smaller cars (much smaller) means less asphalt, more parks, less parking.

The fact is the world is not waiting for a great $100,000 sports car. The fact that is being ignored is all the electricity to power these cars has to come from somewhere, today that will be coal fired powerplants.

What a great idea!!!!!

“These batteries are reported to lose 20% of their capacity each year, and may have a life expectancy of about three years from the date of manufacture.”

You are partially correct. Most LI batteries (the LiFeYPO4 type) are good for about 2000 recharge cycles at 80% of the original capacity. Some manufacturers claim 3000 cycles at 80%, which independent studies have yet to verify.

The current price for this battery type is .0032 kW-hr/$. The capacity of Tesla battery pack is approx. 53 kW-hr, which translates to a cost of (53/.0032) $16,562. This cost, of course doesn’t include the cost of electricity.

At $4.0 a gallon, $16,562 translates to 4141 gallons of gas or approximately 414 re-fuels (assuming a 10-gal tank). Assuming one re-fuel per week, that’s nearly 8 years worth of fuel.

It’s doubtful that prices will come down as battery production scales because lithium is considered a rare element.

Long term, hydrogen will likely prove to be superior energy storage medium.

I know the “roadtrain” comments have been on another subject, but it reminded me: An advantage of the first electric vehicle I wanted to buy was that you could fold it up and tuck it in your trunk and carry it to your vacation home or whatever. Supposedly, in Japan, these microvehicles are very popular, or were.
So “roadtrain” to me means a wonderful linkage between public transportation and private. Think of the way bicycles go on buses. There is a fork that carries a couple bikes on the prow of the bus. If you happen to be the third person with a bike, too bad. You don’t get a lift.
When it comes to little electric cars, if they are small, they can be ferried on the new train system. I would like to point out that nowadays, in order to take a train, you need a car to get to the train station. So trains are not available except to those very near, or with helpful friends, for people without automobiles.
In the roadtrain scenario, you can load your vehicle on a hopper car designed for microvehicles, and you take the vehicle off when you get to your destination. One can do computing or whatever as one travels.

A. The Tesla batteries are both heated and cooled as to operate in almost any condition, including sub-zero temperatures.

B. Tesla’s proprietary battery does not work like a standard lithium-ion battery like the one in your phone or laptop, as such the battery has a useful life of over 100,000 miles without any significant loss of performance. Furthermore once the battery is removed from the vehicle it is still almost 100% recyclable and can be used for a number of uses including backup power for homes, offices, or construction sites.

C. In regards to price and “expensive toy” remarks, as with any new technology, ie plasma tv’s, laptops, smart phones, etc, market penetration begins with a high price low volume product, whereby the costs can then be brought down due to economies of scale. Remember, just 9 years ago a 42″ plasma tv would run you over $12,000 and that wasn’t even 1080p. A 50″ 1080p plasma can now be purchased for under $1000.

D. The reason car companies are even interested in EV’s now is largely due to Tesla and the fact that Tesla produced the first highway legal EV since the EV1, and allows its customers to own them. GM promised the Volt years ago, and we are still waiting, not to mention the Volt is still a hybrid vehicle, not a true EV.

E. Tesla did not receive a bailout, or taxpayer dollars. Tesla received a government subsidized loan STRICTLY for the manufacturing and production of Model S ONLY. As you heard or read, model S will be a vehicle produced on large scale that will be affordable to much of the general public (base price of $50k). Look at all the $50k cars out there (millions), and you realize that A LOT of people can afford a car priced in that range. Not only that but most $50k cars also consume quite a bit of fuel (especially if its an suv) and that is an expense the owner won’t have with an EV. The loan also earns the government a reasonable percentage of interest.

F. Most people don’t realize that when compared to a standard combustion engine. EV’s require little to no maintenance, just rotate the tires and check for software updates! THATS IT

I enjoy all this technology talk and myself developing an invention to cater to the electric car industry fast approaching now in the process of seeking funding and a manufactoring base.

“B. Tesla’s proprietary battery does not work like a standard lithium-ion battery like the one in your phone or laptop, as such the battery has a useful life of over 100,000 miles without any significant loss of performance. Furthermore once the battery is removed from the vehicle it is still almost 100% recyclable and can be used for a number of uses including backup power for homes, offices, or construction sites.”

Tesla’s battery pack is an arrangement of commonly available cells. Here are exerpts from their own white paper:

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf

We started our design by purposely picking a small form factor battery cell. This cell is called
the 18650 because of its measurements of 18mm diameter by 65mm length (i.e., just a bit larger
than a AA battery). Due to its small size, the cell contains a limited amount of energy. If a failure
event occurs with this cell, the effect will be much less than that expected from a cell many times
larger. Billions of 18650 cells are made each year. Though the chance of a safety event in a
laptop is small, the number of safety incidents involving Li-ion batteries is rising each year
because there are so many more devices using small and powerful power sources.

The Tesla Roadster battery pack is comprised of about 6800 of these 18650 cells, and the entire
pack has a mass of about 450kg.

However, even with this high energy density, the Li-ion batteries in the Tesla Roadster only store the energy
equivalent of about 8 liters of gasoline; a very small amount of energy for a typical vehicle.

Long term, the most efficient and best way to power land transportation will be to power vehicles directly from the grid. Batteries and hydrogen incur significant storage losses, not least when they add to the weight of the vehicles. The cost of installing power strips in the roads, which can be intermittent because they will power electric vehicles that have small batteries, will certainly be less than installing high voltage recharging outlets in most homes. Road power can offer unlimited range, and won’t require owners to plug-in, even if they park on the street.

Electrification need be on the arterials only, some 5-10% of the 3 million miles of public roads in the US. For the “first mile” and “last mile” getting to and from the arterials, all-electric cars need only have about 5kWh of battery power for a 15 mile range, about 1/10th of that of the Tesla Roadster under real operating conditions.

Until electrification of the arterials is accomplished, roadtrains with five follower cars could be towed at highway speeds for arbitrarily long distances by piston powerered leaders able to continuously generate about 60 HP. For bursts of acceleration, and to climb hills, the electric cars will use their battery power. These hybrid trains could also be used in rural areas that will never be electrified.

@Ellen Dibble
You have rather mis-apprehended the concept of roadtrain. It is not like the service Amtrak offers to ferry cars on a railroad flatbed. The primary advantage of cars is that you can leave when you wish and proceed directly to your destination without making stops or having to coordinate with a fixed schedule. This typically makes driving far more convenient because it is usually 2-3X as fast as taking transit.

http://Roadtrains.us describes a hitching mechanism to be used on almost all vehicles so that they can connect in an ad hoc manner for only the shared portions of the journey. This means that one could still leave whenever one wants and, at the cost of a few seconds to a couple of minutes of “hold time” waiting for coupling compatible vehicles to come down the main road, be able to join a roadtrain. Since these will need about 1/3 as much road space, they ought to be privileged and get a version of HOV lane access, and gain future benefits like green light priority from the coming of WiMAX, a wide area WiFi that will help cars to be operated more efficiently and safely.

So amazing. No one talks about or believes in Hydrogen power. Electric cars will once again go the way of the Stanley Steamer. GM will once again show the world with H-powered full sized Chevrolets just like the ones running around here on the central California coast.

Think on this: Make a fist. Raise your index finger and hold your hand at arm’s length in front of you. You’re looking at the Number “One”. This is the Atomic Number of Hydrogen. It burns. It’s the most abundant element in the Universe. It isn’t a renewable source of energy–it’s an INEXHAUSTIBLE source of energy. If I were designing and creating a world like Earth, I’d think this would be a pretty clear message to any so-called “intelligent” species that might happen to evolve on that world.

Then again, maybe no intelligent species has yet evolved.

“Tesla’s proprietary battery does not work like a standard lithium-ion battery like the one in your phone or laptop, as such the battery has a useful life of over 100,000 miles without any significant loss of performance. Furthermore once the battery is removed from the vehicle it is still almost 100% recyclable and can be used for a number of uses including backup power for homes, offices, or construction sites.”

*** That’s correct. Tesla is using the same lithium ion battery cells that you find in a laptop. There are a lot of advantages to using an existing, proven technology that is readily available vs. something that is essentially in prototype phase and only available from one company. Tesla’s core technology is really in battery maintance. The system that ensures the batteries always stay safe — at a proper temperature, state of charge, etc etc — is VERY advanced and is the reason the batteries last soooo incredibly long compared to your cell phone or laptop. The company’s estimate is 75% of charge capacity left after 7 years of daily use, which looks to be quite conservative as a few of the horribly torture tested packs (extreme hot and cold temps, extreme vibration, rapid and often charging and discharging) @ Tesla still have about 93.5% charge capacity after 5+ years.

………………………………………….
“However, even with this high energy density, the Li-ion batteries in the Tesla Roadster only store the energy equivalent of about 8 liters of gasoline; a very small amount of energy for a typical vehicle.”
Right. 53kwh of energy is about the energy equivalent of 2.2 gallons of gas. The fact that it travels 245 miles on this amount of energy is a testament to how incredibly efficient the electric powertrain is and how very inneficient a gasoline engine is. Typically about 25 to 30% efficient in a gas engine, and upwards of 90%+ for an electric motor. Basically, 70%+ of the gasoline you burn is completely wasted to friction and heat losses, and does nothing to move your car forwards.

I have driven production EVs for ten years (EV1, RAV4EV). Limited range has been my only complaint. Tesla’s 250-300 miles answers that. Because they don’t waste most of their energy as heat, EVs are about 4 times as efficient as gas cars. They’re easy to charge, cheap to maintain, fun to drive. Charging overnight is convenient and utilizes cheap, baseload electricity. I have a deposit on an Aptera but Tesla’s Model S might be too good to resist.

The truth is that the Roadster will get 245 miles out of a charge only by driving it slowly and with no fast starts, no braking and not much use of regen either.

The Roadster I drove showed a range of about 105 miles though fully charged. The computer apparently based this on the prior 30 miles of driving. For sure, the prior drivers were also testing the car with multiple fast starts and some hard braking.

The road trip test I read about suggested that the working range is more like 150 miles. This is plenty for most people on most days, of course.

The Roadster’s acceleration was so quiet and strong, especially from 30-60, that it made me giggle as if I was 12 years old. I punched the ‘gas’ at the bottom of the ramp onto 405N, and when I looked again in my mirror from the top of the ramp going a mile a minute, the SUV that had been right behind me was still turning at the bottom of the ramp. Thsi was very great fun.

However, roadtrain cars would be much more useful and desirable for most people, most of the time. And there’s nothing to stop Tesla from making future Roadsters that can hitch, and even pick up a charge, while ferrying between the windy roads where they are in their element.

This country needs more entrepreneurs like Elon Musk who want to grow the economy and create good paying jobs rather then beaurecrats like Barack Obama who only want to grow the wasteful and incompetent federal goverment. I’m saving my dollars so that I can buy one of your cars next year Mr. Musk. Cheers and kudos to the On Point staff for another great program.

Those people who care about sustainabiltiy and, yes, image, and can afford a Tesla will, hopefully, buy it. But who sees what cars these people buy other than their equally rich and money-conscious friends? The cars that the public sees the wealthy driving are not these cars. The gas-guzzling Americans see gas-guzzling cars given to superstar athletes. Just a few years back, the Superbowl MVPs where being handed super-sized Cadillacs. And these are the cars that peole thought were the status symbol.
Lets give the MVPs Teslas.

What’s the impact of eliminating gasoline on the overall safety of road travel?

Also, what’s the expected lifespan for an electric car? How long would the battery pack last? How long is the electric motor expected to last?

Cool idea, cool cars. Expensive, you bet. Profitable, not a chance. They’ve hired a talented and very expensive staff; if they were cutting edge that would be great. They really aren’t cutting edge, they’re mostly a vertical integrator. To be cutting edge they would have chosen high torque permanent magnet motors and rather then develop the variable speed controller in-house would have subcontracted that component. I give two thumbs up for the effort and hope they survive the next 3 years.

Whew! Louise! I was beginning to worry; we hadn’t heard any Obama bashing from you all day! And did you forget about the poor, uneducated dog owners? …I knew you’d like Elon Musk; he owns cats, ya know! I wouldn’t be surprised if he is republican–no wait, sorry, that’s your line…

No they are not in Chapter 11. They are the future.

Don’t forget to get some free goverment cheese for the weekend brett, you could use it.

Why are there so many negative, uninformed losers here. This company is the only positive thing in this country right now. Smart people building a future sustainable economic base for the US.

And all I hear is incorrect uninformed assaults on the company. Take you tie dyes and chant obama all day.

@ John Denman

What’s cutting edge about PM motors? Toyota’s been using them for more than a decade in the Prius. PM motors contain a lot of expensive and rare noble metals. Also google “China hoarding noble metals”.

PM motors don’t do well when hot, thus limiting their maximum power and/or needs to be liquid cooled (à la Prius) at extra cost. The Tesla Roadster motor is air cooled.

P. Swope, you are, in fact, completely wrong. Tesla has never filed for Chapter 11. To the contrary, they claim to be modestly profitable on Roadster sales. Regarding the money, Tesla did not ask for and did not receive a “bailout”. What they did ask for was a loan under the government’s clean vehicle program to assist them in building the new factory (in California) to build the sedan.

Please get your facts straight.

I’m scratching my head here after reading Louise’s comment about Barack Obama, am I missing something? Isn’t Barack a SUPPORTER of companies such as Elon Musk’s??? My understanding of Obama is that he is a forward thinker and wants to encourage start-ups and entrepreneurial endeavors especially that involve green energy? Isn’t that what he’s been talking about all along? Obama is not a supporter of wasteful government spending, he just gets sucked into the debate and then gets quoted of context and misperceived because of untruths and misinformation. The wastefulness does not come from the Oval Office. It’s Congress and the rest of government and the endless bullcrap that transpires between Republicans and Democrats who get so caught up in taking sides that they miss the point and simply perpetuate the problem of wasteful spending because they don’t want to back down on their own stand.

And while I wholeheartedly agree with A Einstein’s comment expressing disappointment that there are so many negative, uninformed losers out there now (it’s true and I have been lamenting this more and more lately), I feel the need to clarify: do you think those Obama “chanters” are the negative ones? I believe that for the most part, it’s not the Obama supporters who are negative. Au contrare… the Obama supporters wish for change, wish for a greener future, wish for new technologies that generate a new kind of career, new kind of thinking, new kind of country for America! Well, that’s how I perceive them.

The more we embrace & encourage technologies such as what Elon Musk is heading up, and the more weight and pressure we put behind these green businesses, whether it be vocal support and encouragement or financial support by actually BUYING these cars, the more we will speed up the process which will result in ALL Americans being able to afford these types of cars. I can’t afford one of these cars now, but I strongly support the concept. Don’t get stuck in pointing fingers and doing the “Us and Them” chant. Be a forward thinker and have faith that the more we encourage this industry, the sooner we will have what we want. It’s a contagious spirit. It’s like raising a child… you have to foster and encourage them, not poo-poo them and beat them down. Get out of this negative, greedy, distrusting rut that the country has fallen into, and be a forward thinker and see things in a new light!

And then we can all buy Tesla!

I love all the uneducated, narrow minds in here.

If Hydrogen is so abundant why are there anly a handfull of filling stations in the U.S.?

Bailout? No moron it’s called a loan. Quit spreading misinformation.

Yeah, let’s just burn oil until we choke on the fumes to death, Great idea.

There is such a thing as solar/wind power, coal/internal combustion engine is going the way of the dodo bird.

Tesla is here to stay,period. It will be the next big thing, just like the Iphone.

I never said the filed for chapter 11, I said they were on the verge or might be, and they were in 2008. Get your facts straight. This company was not doing well last year.

I read two articles on government money they were looking for, and one did imply that they were trying to get some bailout money. However they did get the loan.

By the way 50k car is not for the majority of Americans who do not even make this a year.

Nothing wrong with this mans idea, it’s great lets all start driving electric cars to placate our guilt.
How is electricity made in this country? The majority is from coal. I would like to see the stats on 200 million electric cars plugging into the grid every night. Not to mention the whole idea of how much energy goes into making these things. There has to be a better way than to keep driving around in steel and plastic boxes.

Hydrogen is a good idea if we can find a way to store without it blowing up. Also it uses more volume per metric liter or gallon so you would need much larger storage tanks for it.

It amazes me how many people jump on a band wagon. This company is making an elite car for the wealthy.

SATAN with a name like that you don’t have a lot of nerve calling people “moron”. I was not spreading misinformation it was from articles written about this company. Complain to the journalist who wrote them, not me.

FYI it takes electricity to make gasoline/diesel/hydrogen. I’m no genius, but common sense tells me to skip the middleman and just use electricity.

As for the blame the journalist excuse, the truth can be found with just a few keystrokes. It’s called the internet.

BTW what does my screen name have to do with anything?

Some of you people have been living in a cave for too long.

Satan whatever, make all the excuses you want. The articles I posted back up my claims. If you don’t believe them, it’s not my problem.

Bottom line is this guys company is not making anything for average working people, which is the majority of the people in this country. I’m not against electric cars I just don’t think this guys company is doing anything to help other than designing high end cars for rich people.
Which is fine, but not a real solution to the badly designed infrastructure of our nation. The poor urban planing and sprawl which is the real issue, not more cars clogging the highways.

In order to make an affordable electric car you have to have volume.

Most people don’t realize how much $$$ it takes to produce a high volume car.

All new technology is expensive in the beggining, until it pays for all of the R&D, why would it be any different in this case?

All of this is pretty much common sense.

BTW, what excuses are you talking about? I don’t make excuses. I tell it how it is. Having a screenname out of a fictional book is not an excuse.

My main objection was the premise of this show being an infomercial for Tesla Motors. Which is something this station has been doing a lot lately.

Doing a show on electric cars or better yet cars that do not run on fossil fuels would have been a better show in my view.

Tesla Motors is one idea, and his company is well beyond R&D they are trying to go into production. It seems to me that Tesla Motors business plan is not to produce electric cars for the economy market. Which is where most of the car market is. Making 100k cars does nothing as this is such a small market share.

Again I don’t think spending huge sums of tax dollars on developing more cars is a viable plan for the future when our public transportation systems are in need of a huge upgrades. Like I said electric cars are a good idea if they can remove half or more of the fossil fueled vehicles from the roads. Will this happen, probably not soon enough to make any difference in global warming.

By the way getting government loans is still tax payer money is it not. All revenue comes from the collection of taxes.

More on the loans for Tesla and another similar company Fisker Automotive here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125383160812639013.html

Loans are still government money, but they get paid back plus interest. It’s basically a way to help expensive technology along. Helps everybody in the long run.

Big oil and domestic ethanol subsidies are tax payer money also, except for the fact that they do not get paid back. They also hurt new technology development.

These are facts, but most people choose to ignore the big picture.

Reading the listener comments made me shudder, wondering if NPR had a corner on the very angry and un-informed, but I realized that in these very stressful, uncertain times people need a place to vent, so thank you for providing that. For those listeners who really want an answer to their questions, please visit http://www.teslamotors.com – Elon is no stranger to ignorance, bullying, ranting, and other threats. He does, however have a clear vision for a cleaner Earth and a plan to achieve the same. p.s. – the loan had nothing to do with “bail-outs”. It is a DOE technology incentive. Those taking bail-out money do not qualify.

satan, I know about the oil company subsidies and I don’t think these companies should get a nickel.

Larry in case your including me in your comment I’m not misinformed. I just don’t think a 100k electric car is the answer. If Elon was so into helping the world why is he not developing a car that runs under 25K?

I’m not against Elon’s ideas per say I’m just not convinced about the altruism your alluding to.

the so-called “clean” diesel turbocharging as employed in europe is already delivering 40-50 mpg. couple that with smaller, lighter weight cars (under 2,000 lbs) and you’ll do more for reducing the automotive carbon foot print RIGHT NOW than the tesla sham will ever do. and no stinking tax subsidies or government loans required. big boys with their expensive toys should pay their own bills. whatever happened to the so-called “free market”?