Given that we’re going to be getting this vaccination so late in the season, can one of the guests talk about how long it takes after getting the shot for its preventative power to be fully turned on in the body.

Info worth considering, BEFORE you roll up your sleeve:

http://video.google.co/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129#

Oops, bad link—sorry. Try here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129#

I am pregnant and therefore supposedly someone who should receive a swine flu shot first. However, after calls to my doctor, my OB, and other places, I can’t find anyone who both has the vaccine and is willing to give it to me. Where can I get my swine flu shot????

Good Morning,

My sister is concerned about Thermisol in the vaccine and getting her 3 year old vaccinated. Could you please discuss this? Thank you.

Brian Francis

My son, who is 23, is living and working (teaching English to kids) in northeastern China. Should he get a H1N1 vaccine -it would have to be in China, and I worry about the safety? Thank you.

Yo! Swine flu vaccine is not Halal! Take your chances with nature. Don’t let the U.S. govt. use you as a vaccine lab rat.

Respek!

Please look at all available, credible, evidence, but note:
0.) Correlation is not causality. For example, many problems might never had been noticed had a child (or adult) not gone into the doctor’s office for a vaccination; for many, it’s the very first time the child’s been seen so.
1.) When my mother was growing up, before all of the vaccinations save smallpox, it was normal for her to ‘lose’ one to three classmates a year in elementary school to diseases against which vaccination does, in fact, work or largely.
2.) Being a sheep does not give you herd immunity. Note that though many people are herded by the medical establishment, there is a ‘medical’ counter-establishment as well, at least some of whose followers are equally mindless.

‘Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.’

I’m old enough to have had the flu many times. Seven years ago I started getting flu shots and have continued each year. I have not had the flu since. My wife has had the same experience and she’s a teacher exposed to a lot of flu each year. Neither of has been sick since starting to get yearly flu shots. No side effects (that we know of) and yes, we already got our seasonal flu shots this year.

We both plan to get the H1N1 shot as soon as we can and have no reservations about it.

I am concerned about the Guillain-Barre Syndrome that was a side effect of the swine flu vaccine introduced in the 70’s. Could you address this?

All European countries have a polemic on the use of adjuvant in the H1N1 vaccine that is available today. I do not hear about these discussions in the US. Are the vaccines in the US been made with adjuvant? What concerns should we have?

From a public health perspective, how would Dr. Shaffner advise those of us who have had flu this year already, who have not been tested, but who have had exposure to people with confirmned flu? In other words, should those of us who “think” we have had H1N1 still get the vaccine? This question is especially relevant to many people in Nashville and other hard hit cities.

If members of my family have been diagnosed with H1N1 and other members did have slight colds then is there a need for vacinated?

The ultimate answer to where there is squalene or other similar substance in these vaccines can only come from the drug manufacturers, which through an extraordinary act of Congress were immunuized from any civil liability before the vaccine was introduced, thus removing the moral hazard for the -for profit- producers. Plus the Federal government purchased all of the vaccine. So the vaccine makers get a guaranteed huge sale with no risk….this is where my skepticism comes from. Thanks.

What is the most effective treatment for H1N1 if you do infact get it?

Pregnant women out there are concerned about the affects that the H1N1 vaccine will have on their babies. Can we speak a little to this?

1) Nothing is absolutely safe. You can get hyponatremia from drinking too much *water*, for example. Trying to tell people that the vaccine is absolutely safe will backfire. They’ll figure that whatever the risks are, the authorities are lying about them.

2) Many millions of people, probably billions worldwide, already had the swine flu last year. I don’t think there’s any point in vaccinating us, but that has never been mentioned in the mantra of vaccinate everyone vaccinate everyone vaccinate everyone.

3) Be careful about crying wolf. If this is presented in a way that (asterisks notwithstanding) sounds like it’s supposed to be the big-deal plague where we have to pull out all the stops to vaccinate everyone, but then 60% of the population doesn’t get vaccinated and gets a very very mild case of flu that turns out to have been H1N1, it will be that much harder to get public cooperation when an emerging disease comes along that most people who get it actually get sick from.

Here’s a question: What should you do if you have already caught the flu this season? Which vaccine should you get? I suspect that the flu from which I am recovering is the H1N1, since I hardly ever catch the seasonal flu and this bout was particularly severe. Of course, I can’t be sure.

I have a question about the larger picture of vaccinating against diseases like influenza. I have heard discussions about the concept that as we continue to vaccinate against diseases like the flu, that the diseases tend to mutate and respond more quickly. I don’t have a feel for how much of a concern this is really is, but I am wondering if we are enjoying short term relief from such diseases through vaccines at the cost of dealing with much stronger and more difficult strains in the future?

Haven’t most of the deaths so far from H1N1 been teenagers and young adults? Why isn’t this a focused vaccination group considering that social conditions in college and high schools create prime sites for disease transmission ?

(Similar to Ellen who e-mailed earlier) I have a 24 year old son teaching English in Korea. Through inquiries, including of the U.S. embassy, I understand he’s outside the Korean health service protocol to receive the vaccine, although they have acquired a lot of Tamiflu. I assume he should get a vaccination if it becomes available, but if not and he does get sick, how should he determine when to go to the hospital or to call for medical help?

WHO manufactures the vaccine? WHERE is the vaccine being imported from? This question has been skirted in your current interview, still not answered! It is safe, FDA-monitored, yadayadayada, but WHO + WHERE?!?!

In Massachusetts, my daughter is pregnant and we all need the vaccine. Her and my primary care physician say they will not be getting the vaccine. Her obstetrician will not be giving the vaccines. Her other children’s pediatrician will give her sons the shot but not her. The retail clinics could come too late. Public health website is no help. Where do we and especially she go — “go to the front of the line”??? Where’s the line?

I thought the vaccine effects wore off after 5 or 6 months, so one should wait till say December unless in a hot spot.

Your guests just sidestepped (twice) a clear question on whether the vaccine is made in China. My only conclusion can be that it is manufactured in China. Sounds like they can’t provide answers on the detail of the manufacturing process oversight either.

I’d also not want to admit any manufacturing in China – too scary. But the truth is pretty important here as well. People can be more comforted if we get people on the show who actually understand the manufacturing oversight. Maybe the govt officials actually responsible for oversight and/or the actual manufacturing companies.

I would like if the panelists would discuss the administration of the virus. Because the nasal vaccine is a live/attenuated vaccine which is normally given to those who are healthy, have the developers of the vaccine considered that they’re giving this vaccine to the people who the virus affects most? The IM injection is usually given to those who are most at risk for contracting the virus, while the nasal spray is limited to those ages 5-49. Shouldn’t it be the other way around for the H1N1 vaccine?

I’m a healthy 25 year old. I’ve had the seasonal flu once and never had a flu shot in my life. I’m skeptical about getting the swine flu vaccine, since up until now I’ve gotten through every flu season except one successfully. I’m considering the vaccine, but feel like it would be better to weather the season the same way I’ve weathered every other flu season. I don’t see why being careful, handwashing etc., isn’t going to be enough.

Your guests still haven’t told us who manufactures the vaccine and where. Also, The FDA was loaded with Bush’s friends who are incompetents. Has President Obama corrected this problem?

Thank you

WHY HAS THE QUESTION REGARDING WHERE THE VACINE BEEN MANUFACTURED BEEN ALLOWED TO BE IGNORED. THIS IS A FAILURE OF NPR AND OUR NPR COMMENTATOR AND IS INEXCUSABLE. NO DONATIONS FROM ME.

Flu vaccines are known to increase Alzheimers. Also, last year Baxter Corp. sent a large quantity of seasonal flu vaccine to Europe that was contaminated with deadly bird flu. If it hadn’t been caught by a lab worker in Czechoslavakia, many people, possibly millions, would’ve died. So, there is obviously a safety issue.

This whole show was a whitewash.

Osterholm is a liar! There IS verifiable evidence of the irreversible dangers of the thimerasol (ethyl mercury) used in vaccines. Both of these guests sound like shills for Big Pharma.

Thank you for addressing my question.

To those citing verifiable ill effects from vaccines. Why not add links to the science behind your claims so we can all be as well informed?

Should you still get vaccinated if you have already had the flu this season? Is there any basis for making an educated guess about which strain you have already had?

I am a primary care doctor for adults. We don’t usually give two different flu vaccines to the same individuals in a short span of time in other years. I wonder if doing this will overstimulate the immune system of some individuals and result in an increase of auto-immune diseases such as Guillain-Barre, Multiple Sclerosis, or others.
Another problem not addressed by the guests is that seasonal flu vaccine is no longer being made due to H1N1
production and our usual vaccine suppliers cannot tell us when we’ll be able to get any more of it to give to our patients over the next few months. This puts those patients at risk who normally would have received this vaccine.

It seems to me just doing the math is the answer to this question of whether or not to vaccinate. There seem to be few folks who are actually getting the swine flu and even fewer who are dying from it. All reports from the CDC itself show most deaths are related to already compromised immune or nervous system or secondary complications such as pneumonia which tend to show up in folks who have had medications to lower fever or suppress cough.(The body’s natural response to heal from the illness)
The guest minimized the occurrence of Guillain Barre syndrome (paralysis)in the population as 1:100,000 and that is only one complication. Although the H1N1 is in the flu vaccine, squalene is not but it is in the swine flu vaccine and squalene and thimerisol were not in the clinical trials. ( Squalene was also given to the gulf war vets who now struggle with ALS and other lifelong chronic debilitating diseases) The other important point is that having the swine flu will give natural lifelong immunity and has reported to be milder than the regular flu. I’d say the question for each parent and individual is to ask whether they would rather take their chances on dying from an acute illness that our bodies know just what to do for it if we allow it to do what it needs to heal and gain lifelong immunity OR take our chances on lifelong debilitating neurologic compromise. For more info go to http://www.nvic.org (national vaccine information center)

I echo one of the other questions:
If a child has had influenza already this season, should they have a titer before being vaccinated?

Also: If half the population of the U.S. has some immunity, due to the influenza in the 1950s, then if everyone is vaccinated now, then in 30-40 years will we have 100% vulnerability to another strain? Part of the reason that only half of us are truly vulnerable NOW is because so many people were exposed to a similar virus 40-50 years ago?

Isn’t it to our communal benefit to have many people contract the h1n1 now to provide LIFE-LONG immunity, on both an individual and public-health level?

Thank you.

I listened to your guest about how wrong people are not to get flu vaccines, with no mention of THIMERSOL. Was he drug company sponsored, where does his organization get their money or influence?

Flu vaccines containing thimersol (mercury) will cause problems, maybe not immediate or noticeably connected, but you will end up with Alzheimers after a number of years or children greatly increase their odds of autism. Both are autoimmune neurological illnesses which the drug company technicians KNOW cause autoimmune disorders – that’s how they induce those diseases in lab rats so they can try to develop “cures” with patented money-making drugs. They inject mercury/thimersol (a potent neurotoxin)until the poor rats develop MS or autism or Alzheimers or Chronic Fatigue or Lupus or Guillan-Barre or any of those formerly little-known illnesses!

No, thanks. There IS mercury in there to kill the monkey virus. Enough of those flu shots, combined with all the other toxic chemicals in our environment, food and water supply WILL guarantee serious problems now or in the future.

People need to stop “buying” the lies. Informed people will demand reform. There are better ways (albeit a little more expensive, about $2.50 per injection) to produce vaccinations! Nice of us to sacrifice ourselves to save the drug companies a few pennies of their corporate profits! See the movie, The Corporation.

As someone who fought Guillain-Barre as a teenager and now CIDP as an adult, I am told not to receive vaccines. What is the connection? Were vaccines responsible for my disease, or did the vaccines contribute in any way to causing the disease?

Does the government look at adverse affects as a simple actuarial exercise?

Todd,
The video to your link was much closer to propaganda than ‘information.’ It was ridiculously dismissive of the value of immunization and over-emphasized cases of problems with the history of immunization without providing specificity. This really made getting vaccinated sound like a crap shoot with odds being one is at great risk. The people who put out the video clearly have an agenda. Facts are society has had widespread devastation with smallpox, diphtheria, tuberculosis, polio, influenza, etc., in the past. Immunization has prevented those diseases from spreading and causing devastation, and there have been relatively few problems with vaccines.

I agree that people should be informed of the benefits/risks and should act based on an educated decision; however, there is a vast difference between information and propaganda.

A good example of misinformation is that many still believe immunization has caused autism in their loved ones; now, the research scientist from England who started that–who developed and published the data upon which that believe is built–revealed last year that he made up his findings and hadn’t actually proven any link whatsoever through scientific research. Even with this new information coming to light, some folks are still holding on to that belief. Many people also believe that the influenza shot can make a person sick with the flu. This is impossible, as the shot carries only dead virus, and all it does is increase the number of antibodies in one’s system. It is important to be free of influenza when getting the shot, but this is not the fault of the vaccine or of inadequate information sharing. And, I heard one person on this forum proclaim that flu vaccines are known to increase Alzheimers! There is nothing that scientifically supports this.

Parents who do not immunize their children are being profoundly irresponsible toward their own children and toward society in general.

I am going to get the shot vaccine for H1N1 when it becomes available. 1) I am in the health and human services field and 2) I have had asthma my whole life. It is safe because it is prepared and distributed the exact same way as seasonal influenza vaccines and is based on the same science. As stated in the show, it would have been included in the seasonal vaccine but ‘reared its ugly head’ after most of the flu vaccine had already been prepared. There are inherent risks in everything we do. The risks associated with getting a flu shot are exceedingly remote.

I was surprised that the guests on the show didn’t mention the differences between the shot and the nasal spray. The spray actually contains live flu virus, the shot does not. I believe one should consider this before determining the right delivery system for him/her.

I don’t think this vaccine is safe because we don’t know enough about it yet. It seems that we are spending all this time and money to worry about the flu when we could be using it towards a more useful practice, like Alzheimer’s/memory loss and breast cancer, it would have better long term benefits and seems more relevant to our overall health.

I am distressed by the large minority of comments that seem to imply that a vaccination program is some kind of vast conspiracy rather than a basic public health measure. (1)The H1N1 vaccine has been produced in just the same way as the regular annual flu vaccines. There is nothing especially sinister about it. (2) Large-scale studies of thimerosal have found no association with autism. The increase in the incidence of autism took place after thimerosal had been removed from the vaccines. (3) What’s this about flu vaccines causing Alzheimers? It certainly isn’t “known!” Are there any actual scientific studies to support such a claim? (4) In answer to the question “Isn’t it to our communal benefit to have many people contract the h1n1 now to provide LIFE-LONG immunity, on both an individual and public-health level?” People who get the vaccine develop the same kind of immunity to the virus as they would if they had contracted the flu itself.

Can we get an MD to take it from here?

@Brett
In turn I ask, whose propaganda are you advocating? That of the government, Big Pharma, or perhaps both? Yes, the people who produced the video I posted certainly do have an agenda; one motivated by a desire to assist the public in making an informed decision. Let’s see, what is Big Pharma’s agenda? Surely profit isn’t a consideration, is it? The fact that you work in the health care industry doesn’t give your opinion any additional credibility; in fact, it increases to your potential for bias.

Don’t be so naive. If vaccines are so unquestionably safe and beneficial, then why have pharmaceutical companies lobbied (or, more accurately, blackmailed) the government—successfully, I might add—to pass laws to protect them from litigation for damages caused by their vaccines? Even if one can prove a claim that a vaccine is the direct cause of injury, Big Pharma has been immunized from strict liability. As things currently stand, any decision rendered to compensate a victim for said damage is now rendered as an administrative process, with any compensation awarded being disbursed through the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). Due process through a judicial proceeding is no longer available to victims. Here’s a enlightening article regarding how the typical VICP case is handled: http://vaccineawakening.blogspot.com/2007/06/mmr-vaccine-victim-in-us-claims-court.html

There is also a plethora of evidence that indicates vaccines are not as safe or effective as the manufacturers would have us believe. But, aside from all of the research on either side of this issue, common sense is all that’s required to conclude that mercury is toxic, and that ethyl mercury is a known neuro-toxin. As such, any introduction of it into the human physiology carries an unjustified risk—especially for the delicate physiology of a developing infant/toddler. Parents who blindly immunize their children without first evaluating the possible consequences of these risks are irresponsible. Preach your “vaccines are safe” sermon to an individual who has been a victim of injury from a vaccine; then ask them if they think the risk was worth the benefit that was touted to them.

As a token of my appreciation for the lively discussion, I offer you my allotment of vaccine in the event of a “shortage”—just tell ‘em Todd sent you.

Be well mon ami!…in spite of your decision.

Thanks, MC, for being a voice of reason! It is amazing to hear some of the paranoid theories and misconceptions on here.

I have now seen how you gather information, Todd…I learned along time ago that one can not argue with stupidity. I didn’t even read past the first couple of sentences of your second comment.

“To those citing verifiable ill effects from vaccines. Why not add links to the science behind your claims so we can all be as well informed?”
Posted by Brian Francis

Here’s an article which provides additional links to other hard data as well: http://www.vaccinationdangers.com/2009/03/vaccine-studies-under-the-infl.php

To those wondering where the vaccine is being produced, I’m sure it’s being produced in many countries including China.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/china_as_seen_by_elizabeth_dal.html#photo25

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/china_as_seen_by_elizabeth_dal.html#photo26

The fact that some of it is being produced in China won’t stop me from getting it.

“I didn’t even read past the first couple of sentences of your second comment.”
Posted by Brett

No doubt, the same reading approach you apply to the adverse reactions, warnings, and contraindications info found on vaccine inserts, huh?

Brian:

Thermisol is a preservative. One of the components of Thermisol is mercury. That has some folks worried about mercury poisoning. Scientific studies indicate that there is no connection between Thermisol and adverse outcomes following a vaccination. Internet chatter keeps that rumor very much alive. (I expect I’ll be chastised for stating this truth).

If your sister is worried, the H1N1 vaccine is being made w/o Thermisol, though in small quantities. The intranasal version does not have Thermisol. The intranasal is only approved for folks between the ages of 2 years and 49 years who are otherwise healthy. However, early indications are that the intranasal H1N1 vaccine may not be as effective in people over 4 years of age.

Lots to consider, which is why your sister needs to consult her ob/gyn (for herself) and her child’s pediatrician with regard to the options.

There is some interesting data suggesting that keeping your vitamin D level optimal will prevent colds, flu and in particular H1N1 (swine Flu). The Canadians are taking the data very seriously and starting studies to see if Vitamin D can prevent Flu
Here are links to two interesting articles:

August 2009-Vitamin D3 deficiency and its role in influenza
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs026/1102452079631/archive/1102685428884.html
Sept 2009-More on Vitamin D3 and influenza
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs026/1102452079631/archive/1102728693089.html

If these links don’t work you can go to http://www.vitaminD3world.com and click on ‘In the news” to find the articles.

I heard that if you get the regular seasonal flu vaccine that it makes you more suceptible to the H1Ni. Report was from Canada. I am concerned.

Three years ago I was told that as a pregnant woman, it was unsafe for me to get the flu vaccine. All of my baby books basically say the same thing. I am pregnant again and everyone is now telling me it is very important for me to get these vaccinations. What has changed in the last three years that makes them safe now? So far I can’t find anyone who will answer this question.

Joan,

I think it’s because there has been so much money and hype pumped into ‘inoculating everybody’ that potential problems are being overlooked–just like in 1976. Others have mentioned the lack of liability for the manufacturing companies. If the vaccine is safe beyond a doubt, why can’t someone sue if there is a side effect? This vaccine was probably manufactured in China, and it was manufactured quickly. After the melamine in the milk, poison in the toothpaste and lead in the toys, I’m taking a pass on the vaccine, myself. I’ll take my chances with the flu and then maybe take the vaccine next season, once the safety has been proven.

A useful infographic on how safe the H1N1 vaccine is:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2009/how-safe-is-the-hpv-vaccine/

Please read this article and others at the Organic Consumer website.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_19045.cfm

Protect yourself from this vaccine and don’t get it. There are alternatives to protecting one’s health such as using immune-building herbs, aromatherapy sprays (4 Thieves which contains lemon, rosemary, eucalyptus, clove and cinnamon oils) was used in the middle ages to protect people from the plagues. And homeopathy proves useful too, and you can always wear a surgical mask.

I was wondering last night how wacked scientists and the medical profession is to spray a live vaccine up people’s noses. If they sneeze the virus spreads, does it not?

Like several of the other commentators, I was shocked by the way the guests seemed to blow off not only the caller’s request for info on the vaccine manufacturers, but Mr. Ashbrook’s direct follow-up. If it had been me producing/moderating the show it wouldn’t have gone any further until they answered the question. Even a “we don’t know” would have been better.

One thing people don’t seem to get is that medicine has progressed a “bunch” in the last 90 years. 1) There are organizations like the CDC to identify and characterize these diseases, then spread the info at the speed of light, not the speed of a surface ship; 2) Treatment of victims, at least in advanced countries, allows many who would have succumbed in 1918 to survive, resulting in a much lower mortality rate.

Even the almost universal awareness of the pandemic mitigates against it

They stopped making anti virus with thermisol, yet they continued to distribute what they had.

The government is paying for the vaccine, the needles and syringes..paying to the pharm companies.

They have a clause that you can not sue. The pharm companies are not liable for what happens to you if you take it.

They are, again, using the medical community as guinea pigs. We will be forced to take this or lose our jobs.

This show basically dismissed a nurse who made an interview about not wanting it as ‘nervous’.

I do not want to be forced to take this.

Thimerosal is perfectly safe. There is an urban legend that is causes autism, but it’s just an urban legend.

According to the Centers for Disease Control:

“There is no convincing scientific evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.”

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/thimerosal.htm

Patricia said:

“4 Thieves which contains lemon, rosemary, eucalyptus, clove and cinnamon oils) was used in the middle ages to protect people from the plagues.”

Yeah! People used this in the middle ages to protect from plague! Look how well it worked, too! Only 25% of Europe died from it.

Right on! Alan.

…Aromatherapy sprays??? We do not even fully understand the olfactory system. And, what we do know is that responses are very individual. One person can smell rosemary and be calmed by it, another invigorated by it, another can be allergic to it, someone could have been raped in a patch of rosemary and really have an adverse response to it!

Herbals are better and some are safe, some are not. The main problem with herbals is titration: getting an assured, even dose from ingestion to ingestion. Also, herbals haven’t been studied enough to determine how they interact with other medicinal applications.

The other problem with folks espousing wonders of herbal medicine, when they claim anything with immune bolstering qualities, is that they presume the marginal help from something ingested will be enough to ward off illness, or they wrongly believe that all illness is the result of a weak immune system. As an adjunct, some herbal medicines can be reasonable (rose hips and lemon grass are loaded with vitamin C that is not derived from ascorbic acid, for example), although too much vitamin C can increase urinary tract infections in women; some are right down dangerous: St. John’s Wort will interfere with asthma medication that is administered daily and can temporarily destroy a person’s adrenal gland’s ability to produce steroids which can ruin a person’s immune system and make him/her vulnerable to all sorts of illnesses.

This article gives a pretty detailed account of the risks. Anyone considering vaccination would likely be interested. Given that swine flu produces mild symptoms and given the questions about the vaccine, I’m going to forgo inoculation this year:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/health-care/2079-swine-flu-the-risks-and-efficacy-of-vaccines

The website that presents the above article is The New American (by the John Birch Society). They are big on vast conspiracy theories…Lyndon La Rouche might as well have written the article!