I’m with Biden on Afghanistan and the region.

I’m sick of hearing Republicans talk about “fiscal responsibility,” as if they had any credibility whatsoever on the subject.

Here’s a line-up of the last 5 presidents:

Carter (D) – started debt/GDP 35.8%
ended debt/GDP 32.6%

Reagan (R) – started debt/GDP 32.6%
ended debt/GDP 53.1%

Bush I (R) – started debt/GDP 53.1%
ended debt/GDP 66.2%

Clinton (D) – started debt/GDP 66.2%
ended debt/GDP 57.4%

Bush II (R) – started debt/GDP 57.4% e
nded debt/GDP 75.5% !!!!

This makes clear that
DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS ARE FAR MORE FISCALLY RESPONSBLE THAN REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS!!!!!!

Obama may change the trend, but only because he was handed by Bush the worst economy and job market that perhaps any U.S. President has ever inherited.
Obama is just one more Dem brought in to make the best of a huge mess left by a Republican predecessor.

I’m sick of Democrats and Republicans. I’m sick of partisan freaks! I’m sick of a lack of family. I’m sick of a lack of culture. I’m sick of a lack of reason. I’m not going away. I want my nation back.

Constantine,

There is a case to be made that this isn’t really OUR nation anymore. The Chinese own at least a trillion dollars of it. Anyone notice Obama snubbing the Dahlai Llahma to curry favor with our future masters? Let us not mention the 20-30 million illegals here who further erode our pay. More coming daily. Most politicians just say “they’re here and there is nothing we can do about it.”

I am anxious for the next election cycle so I can see which politicians use the classic line, “America’s best days are ahead of it”. If you want to see our future, watch “The Walton’s”.

Ditto Richard. No more offensive wars. They’re immoral and we just can’t afford them any longer.

Ditto Richard. I’d like to see a balance sheet showing what Afghanistan will cost, and what we’ll get for that money. I think that might throw a wet blanket on the most aggressive warhawk.

What’s up with Obama winning a Nobel Peace Prize for “his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples?” I don’t get it. Did he end a war anywhere in the world? Or is it because he has not started a new one in the nine months he has been in office?

Hopefully Obama’s Nobel will give him even more leverage in continuing to talk with Iran and getting further in the middle east.

Alex: he’s the only one of the major players who seems to be both interested and capable of making peace happen on a large scale.

So it is more like a Nobel Prize advance against his future peace efforts, then. Perhaps we should award him our National Healthcare Reformer Prize, as well. And while we are at it, our Nation Corporate Power Fighter Prize, and more.

We need to leave Afghanistan! Especially because we either haven’t any reasonable objectives in that country/our objectives would need to be carried out in so many other countries, as well.

Eight years in Afghanistan move civilain deaths, private contractors get paid to help destory homes,villages and rebuild them, destory them, rebuild them at the cost of taxes payers and no conservatives barking at the cost.

U.S. media and the military can’t admit that maybe the afghan people just don’t like use(theirs many reasons why) and want use out of their country. We Push a corrupt minority lead government to control the whole country yet fail to mention this government was the one we helped fight against when russia control Kabul.

The Hawks use Human rights, nation building or say anything to say yet when it comes to our country they cry socialism when you want to help the poor, reform health-care.

On top of that we are trying to bribe Pakistan to attack and displace more Pakistanis for aid as we did a few months earlier displacing 2 plus million people.

Don’t forget the drumbeat for war against iran even know it’s is working with the IAEA.

2012 election is going to be very nasty most likely nastier than we have seen in a very long time. most likely obama vs romney and because of the deep seated hated and crazies on the right anyone coming out of the RNC are going to be pretty extreme to appease and get pasted their base.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Obama could take us completely out of Iraq or Afghanistan even if he wanted to. He was elected on a platform of healthcare reform and getting out of Iraq and he has been paralyzed by our two party system. It is impossible in our democracy to truly do anything bold. Now I’m just waiting on a progressive/populist uprising, because we need to change the way we do things.

as well to bad the media doesn’t realize that being objective on it’s reporting does not mean they have to have a far-right view point against a center or center left to be balanced esp on evolution, global warming in health care. I much prefer if they do the journalist questions misinformation, falsehoods, outright lies instead of letting such pass.

Just this week on many of NPR stations when talking about whatever issue they had to play clips of what Glen Beck thought about it as if he was reporting news not opinions.

Opinions and what i call bubble-heads(left and right people being paid to spew talking points/opinions on cable news have been put in place instead of objective journalist who ask hard questions

Posted by Richard: I’m with Biden on Afghanistan and the region.
—————–

Since when did the anti-war movement fall in love with Predator drones? You do understand Richard that Biden’s plan is based solely on drones and a few special forces? Without boots on the ground for intelligence do you know how many innocent civilians are going to end up dead?

I think that we should either stay and fight with everything we have or leave completely. The Biden plan for Afghanistan is as nutty as his original plan to break up Iraq into regions based on group identity. And I actually like Biden I just disagree with his views on the wars.

Ann-Marie: I know well what Biden’s plan is all about. Careful not to pigeonhole commenters here into absolute camps.

In an unprecedented event, The Onion hacked all the news sites earlier today.

Universities and schools announced that they will award students joining their BS, MS and PhD programs, a degree on their very first day in class, instead of after they complete their studies and coursework.

Coming soon:
- ‘Audacity of Hope’ wins a Pulitzer and a Nobel Prize for literature.
- Both Grammy and Oscar create a new category and an award for “Reading soaring, rhetorical speeches from a teleprompter.”

Meanwhile
- There’s still a war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, with people dying. Where are those anti-war protesters with their sanctimonious moral outrage?
- President Obama capitulates to the health insurance industries (“campaign contributions”) and instead of a single-payer universal healthcare, we get a watered down version with loopholes. Hey, maybe that $1 million and change he has won will cover those who are left uninsured by the healthcare plan.
- President Obama continues to oppose equal rights for GLBT with no support for gay marriage.
- President Obama supports domestic spying and voted for it.

If only Nadar was here to save us, cause this man can get everything everyone wants.

Man oh man where our green party saviors who could push and pass all the right bills tell those democrats and republicans whoses boss and tell them to vote for it and pass all there bills.

If only

Millard-Fillmore, I can’t tell whether you are being Onion-ish on this, but didn’t I hear yesterday that Obama will sign a bill that includes among hate crimes homophobic crimes? I just heard it again in the news from WBUR 10 seconds ago.

“Unfortunately, I don’t think Obama could take us completely out of Iraq or Afghanistan even if he wanted to. He was elected on a platform of healthcare reform and getting out of Iraq and he has been paralyzed by our two party system.”

Oh, poor Obama – such a victim of circumstances!!

Cory, you make it sound as if he’s a little kid who didn’t know how the system works – yet, he had the largest “campaign contribution” (bribes by another name) chest amassed by any contender in recent history, and refused to take the public funding option. So, unless you want to cite the Twinkie Defense for choices Obama made, your sympathy is not really substantiated by facts – but I can understand the apologist mentality.

Party 3

Party 4

http://votenader.org/>Another independent candidate who was on the ballot in 45 states

If you spend a few minutes exploring this map, you’ll find that in 2008, there were more than 2 candidates and more than 2 parties contesting the elections at every level (Presidential, Senate, House, Governor). So, if you think it’s a two-party system, then your ignorance is part of that problem, as well as reluctance to vote for anyone other than a Republocrat. Complaining about the status quo and them supporting the same status quo by voting for it is illogical.

As an aside, if you have time, compare the above AP map to a similar election map on NYT website – you’ll be amazed at the difference between the two, and perhaps that would explain your earlier comment about two parties contesting the elections.

It is preposterous for Obama to win the Nobel Peace Prize! Obama has not only done nothing to facilitate peace, he’s engaged in two wars! The Nobel Foundation is the same “august” organization that awarded the terrorist Arafat a Nobel Peace Prize in 1994.

By the way, Jack Beatty, after ten months in office, Gitmo is still open for business, despite Obama’s campaign pledge to close it as soon as he entered office. I wonder who stills on the selection committee in Stockholm.

Another independent candidate who was on the ballot in 45 states

Michael, I back my comments with facts as well as my personal actions of voting for responsible candidates, and calling my representatives regarding issues and letting them know where I stand.

What do you offer other than pathetic jibes and a defense of the status quo? So much for your support of principles of democracy when you can’t even welcome other parties, and instead of encouraging more parties and more candidates, scoff at them with your cynicism. Then again, I’m least bothered by yapping dogs like you.

I’m a little mystified as to why Obama has won the Nobel Peace prize. He has not closed Gitmo, nor has he stopped the war in Iraq, and he has increased the troop amounts in
Afghanistan. On the home front he has signed off on the largest financial rip off in the history of our country.
Bailing out the big banks while ordinary Americans suffer and go broke.

I know I sound like a Republican and I have to say it pains me to say these things but Obama has not earned the award in my humble opinion. Oh I’m not a Republican, I’m an independent who voted for him who is not happy with he sees.

Before the right wing(nuts) jump all over my comments I also hope he does succeeds, I want him too. However he looks more like the second coming of Clinton than a real progressive.

I wonder , if the Nobel foundation was very smart in setting a very high expectation of the Obama Presidency. In a way having him to give real good reasons for his actions hence forth.

“..but didn’t I hear yesterday that Obama will sign a bill that includes among hate crimes homophobic crimes?”

Ellen, not sure what the above has anything to do with equal rights for gays and marriage. I guess GLBT community can be thrown under the bus when it comes to the issue of marriage for them?

Obama’s approval rating notwithstanding, his popularity worldwide has given him the unique ability to promote peace interests.

We, his constituents, are already taking for granted that he should have everything fixed by now. We would do well to consider this: the world community likes and respects the U.S. again. No small feat. We’re safer when we’re not alone.

Another stamp of socialist approval.

Great company, Carter and Gore.

The world can have him.

Tom,

Do not under estimate the power of words and the charisma of Barack Obama as a person. People around the word just feel good, less tense, less conflict oriented and more hopeful just by watching and listening to him. It is very powerful.
When you travel now, there is less animosity toward Americans or anybody coming from America. It was not like this 2 years ago.

Thank you,
Kom.

The Nobel Peace Prize is a farce. It’s about politics, not merit. Too often it merely represents the skewed opinion of a handful of people, who use the prize to place their seal of approval on individuals who align with and advance their political agenda.

This should work as an anti-dote to the Koolaid:

http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?id=5051

Posted by Richard:

Ann-Marie: I know well what Biden’s plan is all about. Careful not to pigeonhole commenters here into absolute camps.
————–

Richard,
I stand corrected. I have simply been shocked at the amount of anti-war folks who once hated predator drones as being “civilian killers” but now embrace them simply because of the Biden plan. Thanks for clearing it up that you are not one of those hypocrites.

You cannot tell me that among the thousands of people selflessly toiling away their lives to better the plight of others, there was not someone more deserving. There was, most definitely. The Peace Prize is a joke.

Maybe with his $1.4 million prize he can buy Michelle some pants.

Jack you are nuts! Focus on Al-quaeda! It’s not like they go around wearing different hats than the insurgents. Tell me how you expect the troops to tell the difference. Your plan is completely unworkable and naive.

I disagree with the show’s guest that seems to think that Obama couldn’t send more troops to Afghanistan because he’s now won the Nobel Peace Prize. It seem as though no one has considered that our mission in Afghanistan could be considered a peace keeping mission. I hardly think Prsident Obama could be considered a war-mongerer for supporing the effort to dismantle terrorist organizations. I imagine that Nobel would come dowm on the US side of the US versus Al Queda conflict.

I think we, US Americans, should be proud of Obama receiving the prize… I just called and probably sounded like a fool… but I really believe in Obama… and hope this stands as a symbol of hopeful and peaceful leadership to the world and to everyone in the US. If the us is to represent or be global leaders, than a symbol such as Obama is better than what President Bush represented – retribution and fear. Obama and his administration seem to be working hard and why don’t we, the US citizens take some responsibility for our economic atmosphere and stop trying find someone else to blame… I hope Republicans don’t use this as a negative or a tool against Obama… I’m tired of that kind of talk.

Maybe our President will decide to send 40,000 health care workers, contractors, engineers, and social specialists to Afghanistan. This would solve our unemployment problems, reconcile issues in Afghanistan, and stabilize the country for less money than a troop surge. THAT would be worthy of a Nobel Prize winner.

millard-fillmore, Obama is a politician, and because the state of Massachusetts (and my city in particular) has been on the leading edge for GLBT rights, we’ve seen the politics and heard the arguments. My take on the situation in Washington is that there are a number of steps to be taken. There is don’t-ask-don’t-tell which should be switched but maybe not in the middle of a war, maybe not a congressional hurdle to be undertaken right now. Then the defense of marriage act. Isn’t that a national law? I’m sorry, I don’t know. But I don’t think Obama would win re-election right now if he took the stand you propose. People should be doing grassroots things if they want equal rights to marriage nationwide; here in Massachusetts, the sky has not fallen. Many couples otherwise left out are now part of the fabric of society.

Tom,
Regarding the Nobel Peace Prize: David Axelrod has said it was nothing the president sought and was completely unexpected, that President Obama would gladly exchange the prize for lower unemployment numbers.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/33238836#33238836

Heidi, I appreciated your call. We live in a cynical time, and for good reason. So it may not be Politically Correct to resonate with the hope and so on that you expressed. But Obama’s award was a real boost to my day for sure. Take that, IOC (Olympic) committee!

I would have nominated Paul Kirk for the prize. In his two weeks on the job, he has brought a level of sanity to Washington never before witnessed. He deserves it! I demand a recount.

Ellen, why such low expectations from a leader, and making no demands of someone who promises “Hope and Change”? Can’t have it both way, my friend.

What you’re saying is that’s he’s not much different than Republican leadership – which proves that there’s little difference between the two major parties.

Your comment is also what’s known as “telling LGBT community to go to the back of the bus” or “throwing them under the bus.”

Posted by Mark Erler: Maybe our President will decide to send 40,000 health care workers, contractors, engineers, and social specialists to Afghanistan. This would solve our unemployment problems, reconcile issues in Afghanistan, and stabilize the country for less money than a troop surge. THAT would be worthy of a Nobel Prize winner.
—————–

Mark,
who is going to protect those health care workers, contractors and engineers? The crocked Afghanistan police? Why do you think SOS Clinton and the State department are the ones supporting the troop increase?

Call me what you want, but you’re bad-mouthing someone who’s phoned numerous Massachusetts politicians when push came to shove on the the rights of gays and lesbians to marry. I think you need me on your side, not under your bus.

It’s refreshing to see the consensus in the comments here regarding the Nobel Peace Prize announcement. I think eyes from every direction are wide open on this one—well, almost all.

On my way into work, the guy selling newspapers at the intersection flashed me a peace sign. I think he should’ve gotten the prize! He warmed my heart and freed my soul.

“Call me what you want, but you’re bad-mouthing someone who’s..”

I never understand why people are so quick to misinterpret a disagreeing comment as a personal attack even when I am very careful to use “your comment” and never used “you” – thus, not criticizing the person.

Wow, lets give a president a prize for doing his job.
Obama is given a peace prize for his diplomatic tryst?

I am sorry but as much as like Obama even though I am critical he does not deserve this medal.

What has he accomplished? He has only tried to restart talks between the Palestinians and the Israelis which all ready look like a non-starter. At least Jimmy Carter tried with the Camp David Accords.

Granted he has given

Having successfully made my first call in to the 10:00 am show, I was peremptorily CUT OFF in the middle of making my point, whether by host Tom Ashbrook or by one of his dutiful staffers, I certainly cannot say.
The public is ill-served by such “moderation”, I argue, and if this is indicative of how public debates are to be conducted on the “public” airwaves, then NPR, the producers and hosts of “On Point”, and your many many contributors and sponsors might instead drop the pretense of expressing a willingness to entertain responsible and articulate, but opposing, viewpoints.

Then again, it’s not as if the Nobel Peace prize has not descended into farce before. It did award Henry Kissinger more than three decades ago. I guess Obama is in hallowed company.

Commenter just said Europeans still see with unreal view, which is why Nobel prize, whereas in D.C. he’s mortal.

Perhaps, given that Europeans have been dealing with politics for approximately 1600 years longer that we have, they have a BROADER PERSPECTIVE, and see him as a mortal, facing political reality, and are sending a him a vote of confidence.

Instead of Jonathan Martin, I’m hoping you might consider inviting a hagfish or a lamprey next time.

After all, if you’re going to solicit the opinions of a parasitic slime-spewing bottom dweller, you probably want a respondent with a bit more journalistic credibility.

Adrian, I thought that job was taken by Jack already.

Wow, the callers really have low expectations for our President. He’s got a lot on his plate, let’s give him a prize and a bag full of money. This is why all the kids in my daughter’s class get A’s. They’re all above average!

Edward, you could be continuing your point right here. I hear WBUR cut off lots of callers. Tom will say, “We’ve got it. I’ve got your point,” and sometimes he’ll move directly to another caller. The panelists sometimes jump in. But generally, I think the staff are right on how to get broad and varied types of points and perspectives. They get a lot of flak here nonetheless.

Obama could use Nobel opportunity to call to out to all those who voted to end our arggressive solutions to conflicts, for fair wages and a new common voice for those of us who are at the mercy of our employers for lively-hood and healthcare. We’re up against wieldy institutions that have govt.s ear. Obama could use the acceptance speech to let us know he can’t do it alone, the inertia’s too great. He could call us out and we can step out and agree to end this nervous chatter. Peaceful Coexistence and Parity. It’s time to play nice. Maybe we’d actually enjoy the change.

I think Obama shows his lack of experience in most things he’s done – Afghanistan, the economy, healthcare. He didn’t create these problems, but he hasn’t improved them and in most cases has made the situation worse.

But I think he has helped to greatly improve how the US is viewed overseas. Some of it is just not being Bush and some is being stylish, but this improved view of the US is a significant accomplishment, by itself. He deserves credit for it.

But it isn’t worth a Nobel prize. Call me unenlightened, but a Nobel peace prize should be for something more tangible than better feelings about the US and great speeches about peace. And it should factor in that no progress has been made in Iraq, and Arab-Israeli relations and he’s sunk us deeper into Afghanistan. He’s only been on the job for a short time, but there just aren’t any accomplishments to justify this award.

I think a wonderful statement would have been made by refusing or at least delaying acceptance of the prize. I think even more respect would have been gained by saying that he’d be happy to accept it once real progress had been made. Would have been classy too.

“Adrian, I thought that job was taken by Jack already.”
Posted by jeff

Sooo true!

The haters posting here CANNOT bring me down today!! Our President has achieved the recognition he deserves, and no one can take that away from him. President Obama has done more to advance world peace and democracy than anyone in my lifetime, and all the haters are now exposing themselves as the short-sighted neanderthals that they are! This victory will embolden our cause more, and I only wish I could be in Oslo with the President to share in this momentous day when he finally receives is award!! Hopefully, this will just be the first of many!

Thankfully, the Nobel Committee has removed some of the bitter taste of bigotry that the IOC perpetrated upon us last week.

Richard Gage is in Boston Area all the way from California.
Details/Locations/Date-Times/Contacts:
http://www.ae911truth.org/speakings.php
Does anybody know if OnPoint is scheduled to have him on the show?
A packed itinerary is scheduled for the months ahead. Richard Gage, AIA, retraces some of Paul Revere’s steps in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, where on Oct 9th he will sound the alarm now about all that we have learned concerning controlled demolitions and nanothermite at the World Trade Center. Jim Hoffman, creator of the encyclopedic 911research.com, wtc7.net, and 911review.com websites, is expected to join Mr. Gage at this event, and two others this weekend. On the morning of the 10th a potluck brunch will provide an opportunity to develop strategies for finding and educating A/E’s and others as well as form closer bonds with our colleagues in this beautiful coastal town. For information please email William here.
On the evening of Oct 10, Mr. Gage will speak at the First Churches of North Hampton, and again on the following morning there will be another potluck brunch / AE911Truth strategy meeting. Local event coordinators are inviting activists and architects & engineers in the area. For information please email David here.
Perhaps the highlight of this tour will come the next day, October 11, when Mr. Gage will have the rare honor of addressing an audience at the historic First Parish of Cambridge, where George Washington worshiped in 1775. The General Marquis de La Fayette was welcomed here in 1825, and Ralph Waldo Emerson gave his Phi Beta Kappa oration, The American Scholar, here in 1837. Mr. Gage’s historic speech will be videotaped and webcast for the world to see and hear the truth about the day that changed our lives forever. President Washington would be celebrating another revolutionaary act of speaking the truth. For details, email Lenny here.
On October 22, Richard Gage, AIA, will speak to the Sacramento Chapter of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA). This will be a very important event, being the first time the evidence for controlled demolition at the World Trade Center will be presented to an audience of aerospace professionals. The title of Mr. Gage’s talk is “Analysis of WTC Failure Modes.” The event will be held at the California Aerospace Museum at McClellan, CA. (Photo is the large display of the museum’s logo at the entrance to the museum grounds.) Dinner begins at 6:30 p.m., with the talk at 7:00 p.m. Call 916-643-3192 for information.
On October 27 Mr. Gage goes to Overland Park, Kansas, where he has been invited to speak by the administration at the Johnson County Community College to 270 students. Other colleges are sure to follow. For details, contact Will here.
Dedicated AE911Truth volunteers will be staffing our exhibitor’s booth at the AIA’s Architecture Exchange East conference in Richmond, Virginia, on November 5 and 6. This will be our third AIA conference; at previous ones, more than 100 people signed our petition. Jon Cole, civil engineer from Tampa, Florida, will be leading our local DC area volunteers on this notable educational effort which has been funded by the successful “Chip-in” opportunity on our front page. Thank you all who have supported this project. Contact Jon here if you can come out on 11/5 and 11/6 and help us educate the rest of the architects.

Thank you Felipe. I went to their site and found details of the talks. Heard about Richard Gage, before. Somebody said: “the most informative one hour of here life, ever”. I am looking forward to go to at least two of these events. I wish we could drag an OnPoint Producer along with us to speak to Architect Gage.

City/State: Portsmouth, NH
Date: Fri, Oct 9, 2009
Time: 8:00 PM

Topic: 9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction

Speaker: Richard Gage, AIA

Venue: South Church, Unitarian Universalist

Location: 292 State Street

Event: Contact: Dr. William Woodard
swampgreenfrog@yahoo.com
(603) 866-3254

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

City/State: Northampton, MA
Date: Sat, Oct 10, 2009
Time: 7:00 PM

Topic: 9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction

Speaker: Richard Gage, AIA

Venue: First Churches of Northampton

Location: 129 Main St.
Northampton, MA 01060

Event: Contact: David Caputo
positronicdave@gmail.com
(800) 472-3765
Totally Fixed and Rigged Magazine

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

City/State: Cambridge, MA
Date: Sun, Oct 11, 2009
Time: 5:00 PM

Topic: 9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction

Speaker: Richard Gage, AIA

Venue: First Parish of Cambridge

Location: 3 Church Street – Harvard Square
Cambridge, MA 02138

Event: Contact: Lenny Mather
gitcheegumee@earthlink.net
(857) 523-9606

Gee, Obama doesn’t walk on water – he hasn’t solved
- the healthcare crisis that’s been built over 3 decades by a combination of insurance companies, hospital corporations,doctors, and a reimbursement system that treats healthcare like a commodity, not a public good.
- the war in Iraq, brought to us by our previous Prez
- the war in Afghanistan, brought to us also by our previous Administration who ignored where the 9/11 terrorists were based
What has he done? Well, so far he’s managed to keep the worst financial crisis in my lifetime (i’m 68) from turning into the 2nd Great Depression. Yet another problem that has been decades in the making. That’s not a minor achievement.
As for the Peace Prize, I thought the Nobel Committee made it clearwhyt they were awarding it:
“Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world’s attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world’s population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world’s leading spokesman.”

IMHO, it’s a fine thing to know I share the world with people who dare to dream and dare to hope that humanity can one day turn from its suicidal pursuit of mass destruction and pillaging of the Earth.

Obama winning the Nobel is the most patently ridiculous thing that I believe I’ve ever seen an academic organization do. To win, he would have had to have been nominated only 2 weeks after he took office. The Nobel Prized just lost any of it’s remaining credibility and cashe. The man has been nothing but a used car salesman, and “meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” Then again, there was also huge Norwegian support for Robert Mugabe as he took first world Rhodesia, into 4th world Zimbabwe, based on similar cheaply worded patronization, and race baiting. Oh well, Jimmy Carter 2, can enjoy his moment in the sun, before he finishes his single term and runs off to run his mouth some more to an audience consisting of ever shrinking pool of shills. So far as the Nobel is concerned, it’s credibility is now shot forever. You’d be more honored getting the compass prize out of a box of Cracker Jacks now.

Ellen Dibble: Then continue I shall, with the consent of the “On Point” webmaster . . . . or should I grovel first?

The point I had begun to make on-air was that, with the absolutely stunning announcement that President Obama had been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize (he did not “win” the Peace Prize, contrary to Mr. Ashbrook’s assertion), commentators Freeland and Beatty and callers alike were already forgetting the substance of Candidate Obama’s remarks (his “words”, to quote the eminently quotable Jack Beatty) on 1 August 2007 before the Woodrow Wilson Institute, which I repeat here in case they did not somehow make it on-air: “I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will. . . . I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America.”
Candidate Obama was roundly rebuked by the other contenders for the Democratic Presidential nomination shortly thereafter. Sen. Joe Biden had this to say: “The way to deal with it [i.e., carry out a military strike] is not to announce it, but to do it. The last thing you want to do is telegraph to the folks in Pakistan that we are about to violate their sovereignty.” Biden certainly saw “the Obomba Doctrine” as the enunciation of a Presidential candidate’s willingness to violate Pakistan’s national sovereignty and territorial integrity. But who on this glorious Friday, 9 October 2009, bothers to remember this episode?
“On Point” listeners can begin bracing themselves now: this “award” is only going to intensify the psychodrama being played out before our eyes in Washington, DC, and it threatens to skew the conduct of US foreign policy in a very volatile region where very vital US interests, like it or not, are very much at stake.

Impressive typing for an 8-month old, Yolanda. I agree with you on one thing, damn those IOCers for their bigotry that chose a hispanic state over a white one.

I think this confirms what we already know. Obama has been spending all of his time buddying up to the international community. Who wouldn’t want to party with Silvio!? But in ingratiating himself to the international jetset, he ignored his responsibilities here. As a result, he has no accomplishments and nothing to show for all the momentum he brought initially.

He’s gotten a big check, toured the world and his future is set; but it seems like an opportunity wasted to me. Our country is poorer for it.

jeff–

Thank you so much for your condescension. If you can name one leader who has done more for world peace, human rights, and humanity in general in the last HUNDRED years, I will eat my hat.

The IOC’s treatment of the Obamas and Oprah Winfrey is etched in stone. There is no sense in arguing about that.

In sum, please spend your time attacking the people here who deserve it (i.e., those who would want to take away from our President on his truly momentous day).

I, too, was surprised to hear the news that Obama has been awarded the Nobel prize for peace. I think the mention on the show that perhaps the prize was given to represent a positive shift in perception of the US from Europe and around the world was accurate. This is significant and commendable, albeit maybe a bit premature. Nevertheless, perhaps it will serve to be a constant reminder to him that he’s got to act boldly and make every attempt possible to keep special interests in their places and old paradigms from permeating the political process to the point of crippling progressive thinking.

I voted for him, and I have been a bit wary and even at times disappointed (of course, who wouldn’t be who has lived as long as I have and seen so many administrations succumb to powerful lobbies and political interests over governance). I hope he can succeed; I believe his overall views of looking at the world and the US in relation to that world are more in line with what is needed for the future.

It’s so easy for us to sermonize what would be the best way to run a country from the comfort of our armchairs and propose change as if it were as simple as moving pieces of a chessboard around. I am willing to give the man more time, yet retain my skepticism. I think I can do that without being cynical and without worry of being Pollyannaish or being pigeon-holed by those who prefer to see the world in black and white terms. Many have difficulty in keeping two disparate thoughts juxtaposed in their minds but, all too often, that is where the truth lies. I have always said that the only thing worse than a politician who plays the political game well is a politician who doesn’t know how to play the game at all. My jury is still out, however, on which category Obama falls into.

Any good leader leads from the center, which is itself an amalgam of tight-rope and slack-rope walking. Striking the right balance is critical to getting anything accomplished. Otherwise, we have leadership that can not move forward, no matter what their views.

At times, in listening to some opinions about the state of the world and how to fix it–what the proper solutions are–or how others might fail because their approach is different than expected, feels more like people making bets. Perhaps there is a hope of an I-told-you-so waiting at the end. The mid-term elections are just around the corner, and I’m sure many will be running on the I-told-you-so ticket. It remains to be seen if the views espoused that set the stage for an I-told-you-so are going to be justified or will simply be put in the spin mill because of ideology and political wrangling. I guess I’ll have to refer you to an earlier concept of finding some reasoning in the middle to determine some semblance of truth.

@Yolonda, how about Roosevelt & Eisenhower for starters? They did win WWII and save a lot of people. They were both US Presidents. Or are you just being Afrocentric about it all?

Obama got a Nobel “Peace” Prize. Yassir Arafat was an avowed terrorist who was responsible for having unarmed civilians killed and he got a Nobel “Peace” Prize. With that being the case, giving a Nobel “Peace” Prize to Barack Obama makes perfect sense. Yassir Arafat declared war on unarmed civilians, Barack Obama has declared on the unborn.

Commence hat-eating! You could make a great case for Gorby as well, by helping people exit the yoke of communism. I’d throw a bone to civil rights leaders (of all colors) in the US. How about that Mother Teresa chick? Didn’t she get a choice book deal and cash in on her “good-works.”

If I were as bigoted as you, I would say there was something wrong with the sense of entitlement that big O and little O went over to Denmark with. It was like, “Hi we’re here, you know who we are, just give us what you owe us. Everybody else does.”

Hold on–The person who wrote negative things about our African-American President is the one calling people “bigots?!!” That’s rich.

Constantine–I appreciate the attempt, but Eisenhower was primarily a war-fighting general (and thus quite stained with blood). Roosevelt not only also engaged in the killing of innocents (the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo, anyone?), but presided over the vicious internment of our Japanese-American brothers and sisters. Why the Democratic Party finds it necessary to respect this monster is beyond me.

People please vote for the green party and Nadar to break this corrupt government known for it’s democracy,democrats and republicans,(You know the same democracy we are trying to give to the Afgans), get mad when someone promotes peace,equal rights how dare them. When you get lay off go on unemployment and complain hows the government is helping you.

So people vote for Nador and the green party, unless of course you don’t entirly agree 100 % with them otherwise your a hypocrite. Remember if your green party gets elected he is required to give your 100% of what you want otherwise he failed.

Also how dare obama want to reduce nucular stockpiles,equal pay for women and hate crime laws including Gays. (How dare he).How dare he make better relations with russia, how dare he trying talking to our enemies instead of telling them what to do.

I want my country back you know the one who invaded iraq, thumbed there fingers at europe, recked unions, longer hours less pay, wall street first(how dare we tax them cap gains tax is much lower even lower than use middle class people pay) they deserve it, how dare we tell insurance companies they can’t kick people off there plan when its effects a CEO bonus.

Remember vote green party

Yolanda wrote: “Thank you so much for your condescension. If you can name one leader who has done more for world peace, human rights, and humanity in general in the last HUNDRED years, I will eat my hat.”

Mohandas Gandhi.

So, when will we see some pictures of you eating your hat?

Nobel Peace Prize?! For what over seeing the “Beer” summit.

What tangible thing has Obama done internationally that has has any impact at all on peace? He has given a bunch of great speeches that have amounted to nothing but rhetoric. No action has come out of anything he has said.
If he was humble as he claimed, after saying that he did not deserve it, Obama would have declined the prize saying look me up in 4 years and judge what I have done.

Oh I get it, Yoyolanda, you’re one of those who thinks everyone who criticizes the actions of the president is a racist. Obama’s a war-fighting commander-in-chief with the blood of Afghan innocents on his hands and a policy of extraordinary rendition in full force. Who knows how many of our innocent brothers and sisters he’s putting in secret prisons?

jeff–

Oh, so now you make fun of my name. Very funny!

For the record, the vast majority of the people of this country agree that racism should be put in its place. You can’t silence me just by calling me “one of those people.”

You have no evidence that President Obama is putting people in secret prisons. He has taken the bold step of ordering the closing of Guantanamo Bay, thus removing a great stain upon this nation’s heritage. Your arguments, with evidence, amount to slander.

millard fillmore–

I will admit that Mr. Gandhi was a comparatively great man, but his writings on the role that women should have played in the Indian independence movement were not very open minded. Also, I have trouble with accepting that a man who was so driven by superstition (or “faith,” as many in the far right wing like to call it) can have an ultimately positive effect upon our societies. The fact that South Asia today is so riven by inter-religious bloodshed should suggest to us that a more secularist movement would’ve served the people of that region better.

Finally, we must accept that President Obama has had these tremendous effects on the world in spite of the ways that our stratified society has held men of his skin color down in the past.

The Committee was profoundly right in taking such a bold step. We knew they would be attacked by retrogressive thinkers for doing so.

From Jeff to Yolanda:
“Impressive typing for an 8-month old, Yolanda. I agree with you on one thing, damn those IOCers for their bigotry that chose a hispanic state over a white one.”
“Oh I get it, Yoyolanda, you’re one of those who thinks everyone who criticizes the actions of the president is a racist.”
This board has a rule – be civil. Jeff, you’re behaving like a particularly rude boor. Stop it.

Obviously I can’t, and wouldn’t dream of, silencing you. At least provide some support for your incendiary comments. Do you have any proof that the vast majority of criticism of Obama’s actions is based in racism. I’m sure you’d like to try.

Bold step, please. No new prisoners since 2006. He’s had 9 months and Guantanamo is still open. He’s spineless or it’s just not a priority.

Did he say he would discontinue extraordinary rendition and did he say he would close the secret prisons? No and no.

What about the innocent Afghan blood? How does he sleep at night?

Enlighten us on his “effect” or affect as I see it. Stratified society … cue violins.

Yolanda I have to say your blind support for Obama is is touchy and scary at the same time. I always think we should have a healthy skepticism of our political class as they tend to take advantage of the blind support. By the way I have to remind you we still live in a democracy and people voicing their displeasure about the peace prize and Obama’s tenure in office is part of the democratic society we live in.

Come to think of it the Nobel Peace prize has been given to a lot of people whom one would think does not deserve it. Arafat was mentioned as was Kissinger, who’s record of screwing up countries is as big as his ego.

As for the the comment on the health care problem being one that has been in the making for decades, I agree with that summation however when I read that Obama has cut a deal with Big Pharma nad is saying the he wont support a single payer system when this is what this country needs than I’m inclined to become very critical of this mans intentions in dealing with this huge problem.

I’m a little surprised at the stir caused by this Nobel “thing”. I guess I just don’t care much. Doesn’t end any bloodshed or create any jobs. 1.4 million dollars is a pittance for a president, and I think he is just giving it to charity anyway. Just seems like a distraction.

Millard Fillmore,

I must admit in the last election I bought into the “don’t waste your vote” garbage. I will never make that mistake again. Please grant me however that the two incumbent parties fix the game a bit. They run the debates, and since Perot brought up some uncomfortable points they won’t allow a 3rd party candidate to participate. I was also alluding to an increased awareness and participation in politics by the average American. I do appreciate your thoughtful critiscisms. Nothing wrong with working to defend your thoughts. Hell, sometimes I’m just pretentious and/or wrong!

Poor attempts at humor perhaps. But boorish behavior. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Another sensitive Obama lover I presume.

Yolanda you need to read some history.
FDR was a complicated man in very complicated times.
Was he perfect, no, who is. Elinore was the real hero in that family but it was FDR who was president and he was able to lead the country through one of the worse economic crises and a terrible war. He was no monster as your so quick to say. Interning the Japanese was huge blight on his legacy as was the refusal to bomb the train tracks leading to Auschwitz and other death camps. The bombing of Dresden was a horrible but needs to be understood in context to the era. I’m excusing this senseless murderess raid, but the German’s were not exactly saints.

Obama is no FDR and if he had half the cojones of FDR he would stand up the banks and wall street as FDR did in the 30’s.

My son just came home with an “A” on his math quiz. Where’s his Nobel?

What pitiful, infantile sour grapes from the “Repugnicans.”

Obama won the Nobel for one reason… he’s seeing to it that the rest of the world is included in International deliberations.

That’s a breath of fresh air for everyone but a small retard contingent of the Repugnican Party, which is obviously over-represented in this forum by 5 or so morons.

… and Yolanda was right. You pea-brains can’t come up with one world figure who has done as much for peace or international unity without reaching back into history for dead people.

My son just came home with an “A” on his math quiz. Where’s his Nobel?
Posted by Natalie
—————-

Thanks for bringing up the topic of grade inflation. Teachers these days often give pupils unearned grades. The “no child left behind” policy just makes it worst.
Natalie is right and her son mostly liked EARNED a B- at best but was given an A instead.

Knock off the personal insults JP. It’s unbecoming, and against the rules of the forum. Reported. The reason this show and forum are good is because by-and-large the zealots have been shutout. Rep. or Dem. Koolaid Drinkers, and Attack Dogs are unwelcome here from what I understand. This is an oasis for intelligent, civil discourse. Please people.

JP given that you and Yolanda want to insult people who do not think Obama has done much for world peace is not in good form. Do you blindly support Obama as well?

My argument is that he’s doing the job a good president should do. It’s a bit early for prizes as far as I’m concerned. I should think as we are still at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mind you he did not start these wars. But his stance on Afghanistan has been anything but peace for that region. Obama is taking a pretty hard line on this front.

My biggest concern is that Obama has not reinstated Habeas corpus and has done little to curtail in the abuses of our own privacy laws abused by the Bush administration, in fact he has increased them on some fronts.

I suppose one could say that after 8 years of Bush Obama seems like a saint. He is not however. By the way Gandhi never received a Nobel Peace Prize and as for living people from this country well Jimmy Carter was awarded one in 2002.

Putney,
Your comments usually show an attempt at being constructive and are not part of the constant, mindless ranting of the petty irrational Obama haters who frequent this forum.

I happily insult those who seem to speak no other language but petty insult… very intentionally.

As to Obama’s merit concerning the Peace prize, his handling of the wars he inherited has nothing to do with it. Consideration for the Peace Prize is not confined to matters of war and peace. Did Mother Theresa end a war?

Obama was rightly awarded the Prize because he is ending the Cheney/neo-con policy of unilateralist antagonism that so greatly alarmed the rest of the world for eight years.

If I lived in a country outside the U.S., I would almost certainly be very happy Obama was awarded the Nobel simply for inviting the world back into the International deliberations of the world’s one great military superpower… and I expect you would be as well, from what I’ve seen of your thoughtful posts.

For my part, I won’t apologize for for reciprocating small-mindedness for the same in this forum.

JP, you’ve never been to war have you? You truly believe that if someone doesn’t think like you do, that it’s ok to take a hardline with them? Buddy, that doesn’t work. For ever toughguy in the room, there is always someone tougher. We’re all Americans. There has to be room for everyone’s freedom of opinion and speech. It’s ok to be passionate, but your displaying an attitude that it’s “your way or the highway” and pal, that’s how wars get started. There will be no war here. So long as the zealots are shut-down. You’ve got to go look in the mirror and see the hypocrisy of your stance. For every person that feels like you do, there is an equal or greater number from the other side of the isle that feels similarly. That’s why this nation is deadlocked. Please, reconsider how you’re treating people you disagree with. It’s not as if there is a finish line or an end game here. If there were, we’d have become a Dictatorship or Monarchy long ago.

jeff–

I have no problem with general rudeness. It is bigotry that I will NOT be silent about. You ask for proof of bigotry, and I shall give it to you. Look around you! Our President has performed admirably, even better than many of us expected in our wildest dreams, and often all you hear from the naysayers is accusations about “disappointment.” Why have people been so quick to judge him? Why can’t my children sing songs about him in their schools, or hear him speak to them? I want my children to receive progressive educations in their schools, but it is hateful, small-minded people who are blocking that.

Putney–Here you are again, to educate me and “put me in my place.” To characterize those of us who are patriotic as “blindly” following our President demonstrates your lack of understanding. I would not support President Obama if he were doing a bad job, but since there is no viable evidence to the contrary, why should I oppose him?!

There are people who want to do our President harm. (If you doubt this, I urge you to consider the recent statements of Secretary Napolitano and Speaker Pelosi, among others.) I cannot accept those who would provide comfort to those sick, twisted individuals, whose voices are only magnified by the megaphones of hate on Fox News. Many of you belong there.

Again, the rest of us should be out celebrating this wonderful day! Sadly, because of the unmitigated rape of our environment under the Bush-McCain-Palin regime that is contributing to climate change, we have a grey, rainy day here, but it is sunny in our souls. When we stop celebrating, the hard work must go on. I urge many of you who are also open-minded and willing to work hard to get involved in some of the anti-22nd Amendment activism that we’ll soon start bringing into your communities. The time to start planning for this is now.

Sorry Constantine. I very much appreciate your stance, but the vile rhetoric of the right got us two disastrous terms of Cheney/Bush for which we’ll pay for decades.
Unfortunately, distasteful rhetoric buys the vote of too many simple-minded Americans, so I’m determined to not let right-wing hyperbole go unmet by an equal response from the left. If I thought it was unproductive, believe me, I wouldn’t do it… but the “Republican Devolution” and eight years of Bush proved to my satisfaction that meanness works in backwards American politics.
My rhetoric is therefore just as calculated as that from the right.

We host Japanese students in the summer. The young ladies are 21 and 22. When I asked what they think of Obama, they both quickly said, “He has changed the world.” When I asked how, they said it was the hope and it made everyone feel good. I believe that is what the prize is about, and well deserved. Obama has changed the atmosphere around the world. That is very concrete. It can be the start of a new direction for us all.

As regards the Nobel Peace Prize bestowed upon Obama; I believe the Nobel Committee should also give “The Prize” this year (as a joint prize) to George Bush Jr. and his eight year administration of machinations and skulduggery, for making it possible for Barack H. Obama to become President of these United States of America in the first place and receive it … having done nothing prior to his election, or as of yet to warrant the daily diminishing honor, save acting as an easily manipulated and inexperienced figurehead of a once great nation growing weaker by the day under his leadership, and on his “illustrious” watch.

“I am both surprised and deeply humbled by the decision of the Nobel Committee. Let me be clear: I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations.

To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who’ve been honored by this prize — men and women who’ve inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace.

But I also know that this prize reflects the kind of world that those men and women, and all Americans, want to build — a world that gives life to the promise of our founding documents. And I know that throughout history, the Nobel Peace Prize has not just been used to honor specific achievement; it’s also been used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes. And that is why I will accept this award as a call to action — a call for all nations to confront the common challenges of the 21st century.

These challenges can’t be met by any one leader or any one nation. And that’s why my administration has worked to establish a new era of engagement in which all nations must take responsibility for the world we seek. We cannot tolerate a world in which nuclear weapons spread to more nations and in which the terror of a nuclear holocaust endangers more people. And that’s why we’ve begun to take concrete steps to pursue a world without nuclear weapons, because all nations have the right to pursue peaceful nuclear power, but all nations have the responsibility to demonstrate their peaceful intentions.

We cannot accept the growing threat posed by climate change, which could forever damage the world that we pass on to our children — sowing conflict and famine; destroying coastlines and emptying cities. And that’s why all nations must now accept their share of responsibility for transforming the way that we use energy.

We can’t allow the differences between peoples to define the way that we see one another, and that’s why we must pursue a new beginning among people of different faiths and races and religions; one based upon mutual interest and mutual respect.

And we must all do our part to resolve those conflicts that have caused so much pain and hardship over so many years, and that effort must include an unwavering commitment that finally realizes that the rights of all Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace and security in nations of their own.

We can’t accept a world in which more people are denied opportunity and dignity that all people yearn for — the ability to get an education and make a decent living; the security that you won’t have to live in fear of disease or violence without hope for the future.

And even as we strive to seek a world in which conflicts are resolved peacefully and prosperity is widely shared, we have to confront the world as we know it today. I am the Commander-in-Chief of a country that’s responsible for ending a war and working in another theater to confront a ruthless adversary that directly threatens the American people and our allies. I’m also aware that we are dealing with the impact of a global economic crisis that has left millions of Americans looking for work. These are concerns that I confront every day on behalf of the American people.

Some of the work confronting us will not be completed during my presidency. Some, like the elimination of nuclear weapons, may not be completed in my lifetime. But I know these challenges can be met so long as it’s recognized that they will not be met by one person or one nation alone. This award is not simply about the efforts of my administration — it’s about the courageous efforts of people around the world.

And that’s why this award must be shared with everyone who strives for justice and dignity — for the young woman who marches silently in the streets on behalf of her right to be heard even in the face of beatings and bullets; for the leader imprisoned in her own home because she refuses to abandon her commitment to democracy; for the soldier who sacrificed through tour after tour of duty on behalf of someone half a world away; and for all those men and women across the world who sacrifice their safety and their freedom and sometime their lives for the cause of peace.

That has always been the cause of America. That’s why the world has always looked to America. And that’s why I believe America will continue to lead.”

-President Obama 10/9/2009, Rose Garden-White House
Response to winning the Nobel Peace Prize

“Mind you he did not start these wars. But his stance on Afghanistan has been anything but peace for that region. Obama is taking a pretty hard line on this front.
My biggest concern is that Obama has not reinstated Habeas corpus and has done little to curtail in the abuses of our own privacy laws abused by the Bush administration, in fact he has increased them on some fronts.”
Posted by Putney Swope

Agreed! Even if you haven’t completely abandoned Obama’s offer of false hope—as I have—at least you have your eyes open to reality. As someone here suggested already, Obama’s award of the Nobel Peace Prize should’ve been shared with Bush/Cheney. But, I’ll add that—at least for Obama’s part—I think an Academy Award would’ve been more apropos.

The Nobel Committee was quick to judge him and yet you have no problem with that. Using an accusation of bigotry is a crutch of ignorance. I look around and I see disappointment and disgust.

Obama’s only accomplishment so far is getting elected, but the middle that got him elected (not the zealots who are quick to judge him positively) are turning against him. They think he accomplishes too little, breaks his promises too much, and has proven lacking in so many ways. I’ll admit I didn’t vote for him because I thought him too inexperienced. I believe he has proven that he is exactly that. He’s a puppet of special interests.

I would settle for my kids to learn how to read, write and do math at school. I’ll take care of teaching them to think critically so they know when someone is trying to fill their heads with useless propaganda. Sure, let your kids sing songs about whatever make-believe character you want, but I want my school free from idolatry.

“Teachers these days often give pupils unearned grades.”

False. Teachers these days do not give unearned grades. Giving students unearned grades doesn’t serve anybody, especially the students.

Two NY times headlines:

“Obama to step up battle in Afghanistan, aides say”
“Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize”

Almost 1.3 million added to the terror list:
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/watchlistcounter.html

New York to fight terrorism with more street-corner cameras:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1006/p02s10-usgn.html

Mar war, more citizens on the secret list, more cameras to watch our every move,

… more change we can believe in.

“I am both surprised and deeply humbled by the decision of the Nobel Committee. Let me be clear: I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations.”

Thanks, Ann-Marie, for posting this.

I am proud to be an American today!

This is just another in a long trend of the Nobel prizes being awarded to America haters. We’re seen as European a**-kissers once again! Rejoice old Europe, America is a nation of self-hating apologists waiting for your recognition.

AWWWWWWWW ! ! ! !

Poor little ditto-heads!

Everyone hates America but you.

You must feel so alone.

“I will admit that Mr. Gandhi was a comparatively great man, but his writings on the role that women should have played in the Indian independence movement were not very open minded.”

I haven’t claimed that Gandhi was perfect, or that all his words should be uncritically accepted. You asked for a great person who has done more for peace, and I gave you one. Now, don’t try to wiggle out of your word.

“Also, I have trouble with accepting that a man who was so driven by superstition (or “faith,” as many in the far right wing like to call it) can have an ultimately positive effect upon our societies.”

Non sequitur.

Besides, have you forgotten Bishop Desmond Tutu and Reverend MLK, Jr.? I guess they didn’t have any ultimate positive effect on our societies either because they are/were men of faith.

“The fact that South Asia today is so riven by inter-religious bloodshed should suggest to us that a more secularist movement would’ve served the people of that region better.”

Is it? And which religion is responsible for that? The religion of peace (TM) or non-Abrahamic religions? You should look up the history of secularism and read up a bit, instead of superimposing the Western history and Western mindset, and issues with Abrahamic religions on to South India and the non-Abrahamic religions there. It’s a mistake to extrapolate from Abrahamic religion(s) to all religions.

Yolanda I’m not trying to put you in your place. Far from it. I’m just asking you to take off the rose colored glasses and look real hard at what is going on in Washington right now and since the the economic collapse that spanned both presidents. However Obama has the helm right now and on the economic front he gets a C- or D ate best.

but since there is no viable evidence to the contrary, why should I oppose him?!
–Yolanda

I just watched the Bill Moyers show tonight(10/9) and he had on some very sobering guests; Simon Johnson and Rep. Marcy Kaptur Democrat from Toledo OH.
Here’s the link, http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10092009/profile.html watch it yourself, if your still blindly supporting Obama on all fronts, well that’s your right, but I’m here to tell he’s messing up this country big time and so is Congress. To sit there and say you see have no viable evidence is absurd. To attack me as a “hater” your words, is nonsense. I’m taking a very critical lens to the Obama administration because he came in with all these platitudes of change and transparency. Yolanda it really pains me to say this but where is the change and transparency? Where? The hope you speak of is just an illusion based on smart branding. Which all politicians who can afford it have.

Wake up, try to at least make an effort to understand what’s going on your own country, make an effort. To sit there and say you see no evidence when the Habeas corpus issue alone is cause for concern amazes me. Blindly following a political leader is a dangerous thing no matter what political party they belong to.

I mentioned FDR who dragged all the major bankers who caused the Great Depression and publicly chastised them and lets not forget Ferdinand Pecora who conducted investigations and held hearings in the Senate on the banks. He was originally a Progressive Republican, now there’s an oxymoron in these days, but in his time they existed. He became a Democrat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Pecora

This is not happening, in fact we have just witnessed the largest ripoff of tax payer money in the history of this country. You see no evidence?
I don’t put all the blame on Obama, I put an huge amount of blame on the corrupt Congress as well.

You need evidence watch Bill Moyers and then tell me there is no evidence of some huge problems with this presidency.

Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize on the grounds of “good intentions.” This is a first for someone who states what he may do before he has proven what he can do. The people of the world hopes Obama will do exactly what they would like to see him do, put America in the same 3rd world condition they are in. At the pace he is on now, they will soon get their wish. By the end of his term, America will no longer be the once dominate influence in the world. We will follow as all the rest of the great once powerful nations that flourished for a time and then imploaded on themselves. We will become the worlds dumping ground for people looking for government assistance and handouts. Our people will give up their freedom for the government’s promise of security. We will become slaves to the government and its entitlements. We will hang off the teats of the government with a smile thinking how secure we are,as the government drags us down the road to slavery. Maybe that was the plan all along.

JP, your rhetoric is so shallow, hateful, and elitist, that you are no better than that which you rail against. These people that you politically disagree with are your BROTHERS. You sir, are a zealot. You, and others of your ilk on both sides of the isle are what is wrong. You are simply infuriating. You’re not interested in making anything better; only being childish and getting even. Nobody should listen to you in my opinion. (I’m sorry, but this guy is a troll)

David,
Blame your Overlords Cheney/Bush for dragging all Americans save their select buddies down to third world status… no matter how much you blather, Obama didn’t do it in eight and a half months.

At the end of the day, the fact still remains that the Obama administation is failing miserably.

Here’s a line-up of the last 5 presidents:

Carter (D) – started debt/GDP 35.8%
ended debt/GDP 32.6%

Reagan (R) – started debt/GDP 32.6%
ended debt/GDP 53.1%

Bush I (R) – started debt/GDP 53.1%
ended debt/GDP 66.2%

Clinton (D) – started debt/GDP 66.2%
ended debt/GDP 57.4%

Bush II (R) – started debt/GDP 57.4%
ended debt/GDP 75.5% !!!!

Anyone but a pinhead can see clearly exactly what Republicans do for our country… you can add to this line-up the damage each Repugnican President does to civil liberties.

March Kaptur for president in 2012!
This woman has the cojones to stand up to the special interest. Now this is a real politician fighting for her constituents. We need more representatives like March Kaptur.

Watch this woman as she advocates on the floor of the US congress for people to defy the banks and squat in there homes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF_vU7WZpUE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeVY7JH_xVU

JP as far as I’m concerned a pox on both parties for the mess we are in. I urge you to watch the Bill Moyers show with Kaptur and Johnson and you will see that all is not well in the halls of the White House.

This is not only on the Republicans and will remind you that the current financial crisis is linked to Robert Rubin who was Clinton’s Treasury Secretary and it was this man and people like Summers and Geithner who dismantled the Glass-Steagall act. As I said both parties a crooks here and are destroying this country.

One more interesting article in the descent camp.

http://www.counterpunch.org/

I agree with Alexander Cockburn that Obama should have fired Gen. McChrystal as Truman did with MacArthur during the Korean war. I have a lot of issues with Truman but at least the buck stopped at his desk.

“Our people will give up their freedom for the government’s promise of security. We will become slaves to the government and its entitlements. We will hang off the teats of the government with a smile thinking how secure we are,as the government drags us down the road to slavery. Maybe that was the plan all along.”
Posted by david

Well said David.

“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.” ~Gerald Ford
A true statement, regardless of who wrote the line for Ford.

WILL YOU PEOPLE EVER WAKE UP TO THE FACT THAT OUR “ELECTED” OFFICIALS ARE NOT PLACED IN OFFICE TO REPRESENT OUR INTERESTS? THEY ARE NOT THE ONES MAKING THE DECISIONS. THE POLITICIANS ARE MERELY PUPPETS—REGARDLESS OF WHICH POLITICAL LABEL THEY CLAIM. THE FACE AND PARTY LABEL MAY CHANGE, BUT THE PUPPETEER AND THE AGENDA ALWAYS REMAINS THE SAME. HAVEN’T YOU EVER WONDERED WHY IT IS THAT THINGS IN GENERAL NEVER TRULY IMPROVE OVER THE LONG-RUN? HELLO? THINK!!!

“David,
Blame your Overlords Cheney/Bush for dragging all Americans save their select buddies down to third world status… no matter how much you blather, Obama didn’t do it in eight and a half months.”
Posted by JP

Be patient and give it time JP; Obama will finish the job that Bush/Cheney started. As long as the masters of power and chaos pulling the strings can keep the nation arguing things in terms of Left and Right, then there will be plenty of room in the middle for them to dig a hole and bury us. Keep up the Left/Right rhetoric JP—kinda like digging your own grave.

Alfred Nobel, among other inventions, came up with ballistite and dynamite. It has been debated that perhaps his reasons for the Peace Prize had to do with his possible regret for developing those and additionally creating an armaments company. Historians simply can not know for sure. What is interesting about that possibility to me is that it hints at how complex and multidimensional human beings can be. We are greater than the sum of our parts; often, our creations prove this over and over. There are contradictions within us all that ostensibly reveal flaws; more importantly, I believe those contradictions are what give us our humanity.

Throughout history, we humans have done all manner of things great and atrocious. Some of us have even committed to both within the framework of our individual presence in history. It is what makes history rich and exciting to study, and it serves to explain much about human behavior.

I feel if we lose sight of the contradictions in our humanity and, by extension, a multidimensional view of observing and understanding history, we deny ourselves a true examination of the past, as well as the present. If we wholly idolize historical figures (past or present) and, by the same token, exaggerate the less desirable qualities or actions–in addition to dismissing the accomplishments–of those historical figures we choose to criticize, we participate in a disingenuous and intellectually dishonest practice of distortion and deception.

Putney,
I had to laugh: I would have fired McChrystal in a heartbeat! Generals have to follow chain of command.

Putney,
I agree with you about both parties.

The problem, however, is thinking that any third, fourth, or fifth party will make a difference.

I would defy you, or anyone to find a political party anywhere, in any country, at any time, that didn’t sell out and indulge greed and lust for power.

With a couple of ultimately insignificant exceptions, all politicians are corrupt or ultimately corrupted.
It is the nature of humans working in powerful posts where they are in a position to legislate policy and dole out money… everyone with an interest comes to ask their favor, and that kind of power gets to their heads. With that kind of power, only a very special few in history have managed to avoid the temptations of corruption.

So what are we left with to help us determine who should be elevated to that status and temptation?

Our only guide is history, which gives us a fair answer when studied carefully.

That is why I’m posting the above stats on Presidents.

Also, I would beg you to consider the effects parties in Congressional power have had on our country historically.

Before the Republican Revolution of ‘94, Dems controlled Congress for fifty years! There was plenty of corruption, and up and down economic cycles… yet look what our country accomplished between the end of WWII and 1994!!! We did pretty damn well over all, and civil liberties for everyone progressed steadily over the entire period. America grew the best middle class it has ever seen, and it was all based on real productivity, not the illusion of paper wealth. We had the least class division of any time in American history!

Then comes the Republican Revolution, and in a mere twelve years, wages stagnate in relation to GDP, manufacturing steadily declines, wealth becomes a paper fantasy, class division increases, military spending sky-rockets, Americans begin to lose civil liberites, etc., etc…

After fifty years of the relative “Good Life” under Dems, Republicans create K-Street and absolutely wreck the country in twelve short years!!!

Political Parties by and large respected each other, lunched with one another, and got things accomplished under Democratic rule.
Then comes Gingrich, Delay, Dole, et al., and civility in Congress ends abruptly. I mean these guys played childish games, literally hiding behind furniture and running room to room to exclude Dems from important meetings, taking parliamentary trickery and technicalities to new lows, excluding Dems at every turn despite Democrats still representing nearly half of all Americans!

Look for data about the number of lobbyists on Capitol Hill and see how it exploded under Republican Rule. They created K-Street, for God’s sake!

…And worst of all, they did it by the most base appeal to culture war fears and jingoistic “patriotism,” preying on the weak-minded, fearful, and biggoted in our country.
Of course, after all the scandals, we know just how devoted Republican congressmen really are to “family values.”
I’m not saying Dems are saints, but I didn’t see many Dems trying to fool Americans into believing they were patriarchal saints either.

This is the gist of my argument:

Since no politician of any stripes can really be fully trusted, all we have to go on is the historical record, and if we look around the world and at our own history, we know that it doesn’t make much difference if a new party comes along saying they will “do better.”

What we do have is a Democratic Party that had a pretty fair record overall during fifty of the best years in America.

Now they are back in power, and they’re not being given a fair chance by a little less than half the American public (thanks to FOX, Beck, and Limbaugh), and by the ultra-obstructionist Republican Party.

I certainly don’t like the corporate welfare that Bush started and Obama has continued, but if you’ll remember back just a year ago, everyone was scared sh!#less and absolutely no one really knew what to do… what would really help or what would make things worse.

I was writing in this very forum back then that the banks should be allowed to fail, but that was just my gut instinct and literally every economist everywhere was saying the government had to act because they had studied the inaction of Hoover which supposedly led to the Great Depression. So who can say if the intervention helped or not, and at any rate, hind sight is 20/20. Of course now I REALLY wish the bastards had been allowed to go down, but I’ll give both Bush and Obama the benefit of the doubt that perhaps absolutely no one else could have done better… and there is no way in hell I’m going to blame Obama for the mess he had to face starting on day one of his presidency. That’s just sheer stupidity and utterly beyond reason.

Anyway, that’s my take… take it or leave it.

Obama and the Nobel Prize!

I don’t think the critics have any idea what was Nobel’s intention when he conceived that award!
If you read mister Nobel, you will soon realize that Obama fits the profile of a Nobel prize laureat. Of all the nominees, he had the most world appeal and is the main reason why the world feels less inclined to resolve differences by armed conflict.Despite Iraq and afghanistan he inherited.

I just hope that he persists and lives up to that ideal. Although i have my doubts.Democracy in the US is just a front,the real power is “corporated”( Halliburton, lokeed,GE, the banks, the insurance co…..) just look at the bailout of wall street on one hand and the debat over healthcare for the people( public option )on the other.

Kind of sad how this nation is so controled! just like it was in the Soviet union, but with more sophysticated means(a pathetic and accomplice media). The “first class”(5% of the population) is still dancing in the ballroom of the Titanic, How much longer those fools think it will last?

JP,

Jessie Ventura, Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold, Ralph Nader, maybe Pat Buchanan. These are a few politicians who don’t seem like total sellouts. I mention them only to illustrate that it is POSSIBLE… Though I will grant you it is exceedingly rare. All we need for a legit 3rd party is the 40% in the political middle to decide it is time. They already determine election winners now, they just need to work a little harder and decide parties as well.

“Of all the nominees, he had the most world appeal and is the main reason why the world feels less inclined to resolve differences by armed conflict.”

There is no evidence that the world is less inclined to resolve differences by armed conflict. They just think that with Obama, the U.S. will be less inclined to make war. But even that is doubtful to me. In short, when Obama stops a single armed conflict anywhere in the World I will start listening to the man. Until then, I am inclined to think that I had, indeed, voted for an “empty suit.”

Cory,
Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan have never help elected office, so we don’t know how they’d do once in the system.
Jessie Ventura may not exactly have corrupution scandal in his background, but I’d hardly hold him up as the kind of politician I want helping lead the country.
I really respect Dennis Kucinich, but part of his appeal and perhaps the reason he still has integrity is that he’s always been an “outsider” who has never really been brought into the sysytem.
I really can’t say much about Feingold because I’m not at all familiar with his record.

sorry, that should be “held elected office.”

The day after, it’s not too late to ask yet again: why is it that Candidate Obama’s enunciation on 1 August 2007 (in his talk before the Woodrow Wilson Institute) of his commitment to pursue a course of US unilateralism and “pre-emptive war” (“If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will. . . . I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America”)–why is it, and how is it, that these “words” are somehow to be eclipsed by his “words” of 9 October 2009? If it is the case that only Obama’s most recent utterances express his actual intention, if it is the case that only his most recent words are ever going to express his actual intention–then what future “words” of his must we wait for, in order to determine exactly where he stands on any issue whatsoever?

Great job JP,

I agree as well if you let the rabid right take over our debates and conversations it sinks to craziness and news outlets giving them mics as if it is true.

Example (birthers, Deathers, teabagger) sometimes it hard to blame many since there misinformed, hateful, and revisionist, and since the far right used to be on radio station and people (at least most) knew most of what they said was crap, its now on a station that calls itself news (foxs)where people actually think the opinions of ones such as Glen B, Hanitiy, Bill O, Brett F, as Factual news, there even managed to get two NPR people Juan Williams and another women to put the illusion of fair and balance. And when called on it says its only opinions. Even blaming blacks with the help of Michael Steele for our economic collapse. Still pushing the free market (the same guys that bent people over and took there money) as the solution.

Also as NPR as taken such illussion of fair and balance as well often presenting a center or center left with a Far right guess.I admit Onpoint is much better at not doing this unless it is on foreign policies

Even with the birther issue the guess on the right could not admit that is was not true, by saying yes its dumb, foolish, but yea there all some questions.

If people don’t stand up to the crap the right spews often based on emotions than facts.

For the naysayers your politican is not going to do 100% of what you want since many people feel stronger on some issues than other. Adults realize this.

The New World Order thing is laughable, if republicans and democrats were the same than Reaganomics would be the ideology of both parties, both would either work for the poor or not (as we see the republicans often work for the rice and dems often work for the poor)

As for Foreign polices the republican were able to frame it very well to center and far right and their propaganda campaigns are great at keeping that way, along with most of the top brass are conservative and where kept by obama in good faith.

If republican can frame things on emotions,distortions,fear,and traditional values(which most don’t have or knows what that is) than they can win and pick up seats. There tell people to stop playing the victim when someone is wronged yet play it when you call them on there crap.

Just Look at some of the laws passed that allow Rupert Murdoch to have a bigger stake in the news and press, look what he did to foxes news, wall street journal and the ability to change from reporting news in a objective manner to reporting news based on opinions this in turn forced other news outlets to do the same to keep up with ratings

also its pretty laughable as well when someones complains about helping the poor when there on unemployment or someone complains about reforming health care when there getting government run health-care from the military or one most agree with 100% of what obama does to support him, or blaming obama’s short time in office instead of the last 8yrs of bush for our mess.

I like to point out that when he got in the stock market was down to 6k, and we were on the verge of a another great depression, Now we are not, also that the massive outsourcing of almost all jobs to india, china, sweat shops will make it hard now to reduce unemployment.

yapping is someone that believe Nadar can fix everything, yapping is thinking everything will be fixed in less than a year, yapping is this new world order thinking. yapping is trying to compare a president’s and his VP politicizing the justice department outing a CIA agent, invading iraq under false pretense to someone saying obama’s a muslim, Kenyan.

Keep trying to swift-boat the president and people will keep calling you on it.

Have a great day

Likewise, I for one would love to see some intrepid journalist (NPR-affiliated or otherwise) recover the actual transcripts of the actual words that Sen. Obama uttered on his August 2006 visit to his paternal ancestral homeland: did his “words” in Kenya in fact inflame Luo opposition to the Kikuyu-led government of President Mwai Kibaki and contribute to the ensuing civil strife that led to the deaths of over 1000 Kenyans, Kikuyu and Luo alike?

“Peace, peace, when there is no peace . . .”

“Now they are back in power, and they’re not being given a fair chance by a little less than half the American public (thanks to FOX, Beck, and Limbaugh), and by the ultra-obstructionist Republican Party.”

Not so fast.

House of Representatives:
Democratic Party 256
Republican Party 177
Vacant 2

Senate
Democratic Party 58
Republican Party 40
Independent 2 (Both caucus with the Democrats)

White House
President Obama – a Democrat (won 52.9% of popular vote in November 2008)

JP, with an overwhelming majority in the House, and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate (as well as control of the Congress since after the mid-term elections in 2006 starting with the 110th Congress), I don’t see any fact-based signs of “ultra-obstructionist obstructionist Republicans” that you mention. Even if we assume that the Republican party is being ultra-obstructionist, they currently do not have the necessary numbers in the Congress where they could effectively obstruct passage of bills desired by the Democrats.

Going by logic and rational thinking, that leads us to contemplate what Jon Stewart said a while ago:

Stewart is critical of Democratic politicians for being weak, timid, or ineffective. He said in an interview with Larry King, prior to the 2006 elections, “I honestly don’t feel that [the Democrats] make an impact. They have 49 percent of the vote and three percent of the power. At a certain point you go, ‘Guys, pick up your game.’”[58] He has targeted them for failing to effectively stand on some issues, such as the war in Iraq, describing them as “incompetent” and “unable… to locate their asses, even when presented with two hands and a special ass map.“

Of course, you as a Democrat (safe assumption) won’t like these harsh truths about a party you identify with and vote for, but that’s how it goes.

JP, I also don’t understand what you mean by “not being given a fair chance.” ???????

They won the elections starting with the mid-term in 2006, have a very comfortable and obstruction-free majority to implement their agenda – what other fair chance do they need? They are handsomely paid to do their job – which of course, they’re not doing because they’re, as Jon Stewart said, “incompetent and weak”.

Any more excuses you want to make up for those poor little Democrat babies in the Congress who are being denied a “fair chance”? What is it? Are the Republicans holding their collective breaths on the floor or going on fasts to prevent Democrats from implementing their agenda, for which they have got an overwhelming mandate from the people?

Dude, your comments are just hilarious and devoid of any rational/logical thinking. Then again, this is the same party that blamed Nader for Gore’s incompetent performance (he failed to win his home state Tennessee as well as a popular sitting President’s home-state – Arkansas – a win in either of which would’ve landed him in the WH) – obviously, self-introspection is not a strong suit of Democrats (as well as the Republicans), and it’s easier to play the victim and blame the “obstructionist Republicans” and hide behind such weak excuses, instead of facing the reality.

Thanks for providing laughs on a sunny Saturday.

Today was the first day that I awoke with the knowledge that our President was now a Nobel Laureate, and indeed the sun was shining a little brighter than ever before. Our President continues to inspire for those of us who believe in what he can achieve.

Mr. Fillmore–I don’t understand your points. My goal was not to besmirch Mr. Gandhi, nor Bishop Tutu, nor Rev. King. All worthy recipients of the Nobel. You are right, in that all of those men achieved great things in spite of their adherence to outdated dogmas. You, however, asked me to defend my assertion that President Obama is the greatest leader in one hundred years (reasonably, even a thousand), and I provided some way in which our President exceeds the greatness of even these highly laudable men. They motivated their faithful through appeals to superstition. President Obama does so through rationality and the innate goodness of his words and character.

Putney and jeff–I have nowhere argued that President Obama has been able to achieve everything he has set out to do. Where he has not yet succeeded, you should look at those who have blocked his actions and aspirations. And we must also be careful about judging the first African-American President of this country so harshly. He is an inspiration to so many who have for so long been victimized by the scourge of deep-seated hate, and I fear that tearing him down will send the wrong message to the innocent young girl, sitting in her woefully underfunded public school in Harlem, who one day dreams of achieving greatness, as well.

Thank you, Ann-Marie, for posting the good words of our President. They are truly humbling and remarkable to read. I watched him speaking them yesterday with tears of joy and a quivering so strong that I had to kneel in front of the television. I would urge those who do not believe in the good work that our President is doing for this country and all the creatures of the world to read more of his inspiring words. I make sure I read a passage from one of our President’s inspired books and watch some portion of one of his moving speeches every morning. It is a wonderful way to inspire me to continue to do his work, even when the naysayers throw bigotry masked as “concern” in my face.

Moderators: Please delete the hateful, ethnocentric, and slanderous comments posted by “Edward Roberts” above.

Finally, need I remind you that this board is connected to a public radio program. In that spirit, all comments here should really be geared towards protecting the public’s interest. In that sense, criticism of our President–especially criticism that is not constructive and is merely rooted in bigotry–should and must not be tolerated. My tax dollars should not go towards supporting bombs being dropped on Iraqi nursery schools, and they should not go towards hateful, anti-patriotic messages!!

JP you should really check out Representative March Kaptur on both the Moyers show and in congress. Senator Bernie Sanders, the independent from Vermont is one of favorites, but alas I don’t’ live there.

JP I’m not sure your understanding my points.
I’m alluding to the facts that the system is now so out of balance with all the lobbyist and money steering this country in the direction that they want it to go that it does not matter who is in charge. There was a time when there was more balance as I stated after the last massive banking and wall street crisis, the Great Depression, FDR and congress made some pretty good regulatory changes to the system and took control of a very bad situation. This is not happening now, far from it. They have done nothing, Obama and the Democrat’s have let wall street and the big banks write their own ticket more or less.

By the way up until the late 60’s most of the South was run by the Democrat’s and they opposed a lot of the things your alluding to as progressive legislation.

Yolanda, please are you serious. We should give Obama a pass because he’s the first Black president. Your telling me that because Obama is a man of color that I should not be a critical as I would be of GW Bush or Clinton.
Of course GW Bush is a special case being the worse president since Caligula.

Sorry that wont wash with me, and you know what if you ask him I’m sure he would agree with me.

As far as your other comments on the content of the other people posting, and trying to dictate some false dichotomy that mirrors your ideology, well that’s just not cricket Yolanda. People should be able to voice opinions, granted some are over the top. But I don’t see any so far that are so bad as to warrant removal. Anyway they BUR will remove any that deemed as personal attacks or blatantly racist.

I have to ask how old are you? I hope your under 25 because you sound very young.

Millard-fillmore, whose namesake fittingly was the “Know-Nothing Party” candidate, can always be counted on to make the same stupid point every couple of weeks.

What I mean, mon enfant, by

“Now they are back in power, and they’re not being given a fair chance by a little less than half the American public (thanks to FOX, Beck, and Limbaugh), and by the ultra-obstructionist Republican Party,”

is that the the afore-mentioned windbags are using lies and half-truths to convince the weak-minded (you, for instance) that Dems don’t deserve the same amount of time to clean things up that it took Republicans to screw things up. You and your ilk think the Morons who ruined the country should be put right back into power.

As for the obstructionist Repugnicans, no matter what your idiotic logic, they are very effectively mucking things up, and they have on their side the psuedo-Democrat blue dogs who only ran as Dems because they knew that was the only way to get elected (seeing as how Americans rightly despised Repugnicans for destroying their livelihoods.)

Try again pea-brain.

Putney,

I’ll definitely watch the show and I almost never miss it.

I understand about the Dems in the south (I’ve lived in Texas since the sixties), but none-the-less the progress was made under Dem rule, which attests to both Dems (led by Dems like JFK and LBJ) and their willingness to invite Republicans into the fold.

‘Obama is the greatest leader in one hundred years (reasonably, even a thousand)’ wrote Yolanda…

Why stop there, Yolanda? Why not make it two thousand? Or even since the beginning of recorded time and before! And why spend energy on even considering a comparison of Obama and lesser individuals when one can devote energies to the repeal of the 22nd Amendment, as you’ve suggested before? Why shouldn’t he be president for life?!? Why shouldn’t everyone kneel down in front of Obama’s image everyday?!? Why shouldn’t everyone read passages of his books every day?!? Why question any of it; as you say, there is ‘…innate goodness of his words and character.’

I refer you to my previous comment that started with a brief part about Alfred Nobel. It may not be one dimensional or direct enough for your liking to argue against, but it relates directly to the opinions you espouse. For example, when you offered a characterization that Ghandi, Tutu and King ‘…motivated their faithful through appeals to superstition.’ You distilled their approaches to change down to something silly, which is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. This is a strawman approach to arguing a point so you can bolster your side of the argument. It especially does a disservice to that ‘innocent, young girl’ of whom you speak and serves to distort and manipulate information about history. People of my generation, including myself, found inspiration in Ghandi, Tutu and King because they appealed to the better nature of humanity. Many of us never were part of any organized religion or participated in any idolatry.

Putney,
I believe Yolanda was really saying that your comments, the comments of others, as well as perhaps mine, are to be thought of in the same vein as bombing Iraqi nursery schools. At least they should not be supported by tax dollars, unlike her comments. I think that’s what can be gleaned from her comments, anyway. I mean, after all, your comments (and mine) are not only unpatriotic, it sounds as though they are downright blasphemous!

Yolanda,
Though NPR is publicly AND privately funded, the government funding is nearly insignificant in the range of two percent, so your tax dollars aren’t involved much.

The Repugnican Devolution almost immediately saw to that, as gutting the National Endowment for the Arts was one of their first priorities. Then they just kept chipping away at funding every chance they got.

Public radio stations get a little help from the CPB, which is mostly funded by tax-payers, but it is still a negligible amount… Public Radio and NPR are now pretty much on their own.

Awwww JP. How quickly you descend to name-calling when faced with facts.

So now it’s the blue-dog Democrats, eh? Why blame Republicans then, if the Democratic party is incapable of uniting under a leader who promised Hope and Change (TM), and is unable to pass laws that implement their agenda? Talk about denial!!

BTW, your comments sound like you’re chanelling the spirit of those very Republican talk-show hosts you so abhor. Way to make Democrats proud and prove that there’s less of a difference between the two major parties!!

JP, what kind of leader is Obama if he can’t even convince his own party members to vote for his agenda? I guess he can garner all the international awards in lieu of doing his job at home.

…W-e-h-he-he-l, JP! I believe what is meant by Yolanda is that if so much as one dime is devoted to public radio, then any blog comments therein pertaining to Obama are to be of pure praise with NO deviating sentiment or are to be stricken from the record!!! …I don’t know, sounds like dangerous territory to me…

BTW, I simply quoted Jon Stewart of The Daily Show. Now, if you call him pea-brained, I guess should that be a reflection of the capability of your gray cells?

‘I have nowhere argued that President Obama has been able to achieve everything he has set out to do. Where he has not yet succeeded, you should look at those who have blocked his actions and aspirations.’
written by Yolanda, on Oct. 10th, 2009 at 2:26pm

What are saying? That Obama may NOT have achieved everything he has set out to do? AND, in certain areas, he has NOT succeeded? Sure, you blame others who have blocked his actions and aspirations, but still!! What about that poor, innocent, young girl? She may read this and get discouraged!!

My point exactly! The “blue dogs” aren’t real Dems… just Repugnicans in disguise. Kind of like your very own RINOs.

Come on guys!

Considering the TITANIC messes Obama was elected to clean up, its totally absurd to expect much to be resolved after only eight-and-a-half months.

I’d expect to MAYBE start seeing results after two years or more… it’s not like Republicans made just a little mess that one can wipe up quickly with paper towels.

“Come on guys!

Considering the TITANIC messes Obama was elected to clean up, its totally absurd to expect much to be resolved after only eight-and-a-half months.

I’d expect to MAYBE start seeing results after two years or more… it’s not like Republicans made just a little mess that one can wipe up quickly with paper towels.”
Posted by JP

I would agree, the messes are TITANIC. However, there are some resolutions that Obama could’ve effected within the past 8-1/2 months by the stroke of a pen via Executive Orders. For example, the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, Extreme Rendition/Secret Prisons/Torture, John Warner Defense Authorization Act, domestic Warrantless Wire-tapping and searches, etc., etc.—not to mention his failure to hold Bush/Cheney accountable for their administration’s unconstitutional assaults upon liberty by these policies. Obama has not only failed to repeal these threats to liberty, but he has expanded some of their powers since he has taken office. Obama may as well be the Bush/Cheney 3rd term in office, sans the comic relief while blundering through speeches. Dems & Repubs are merely two sides of the same bad coin—the coin’s value doesn’t change simply because it’s turned over.

jeff–You are missing my point entirely. I am in no way saying that Messrs. Gandhi, Tutu, and King were not capable of inspiring; they certainly were. However, we cannot deny that President Obama has inspired many billions, and the fact that he has been awarded such an honor so quickly is proof of that. President Obama has been able to do this without the reference to magic that the others used; hence, his leadership remains unstained in those ways.

Putney–It is none of your business how old I am. You’d never ask a man that question, so why would you ask me?! I can assure you, however, that I am old enough both to have witnessed the true horrors of the Bush Regime, and therefore know the evil from which Barack Obama saved us by defeating Herr McCain and Fraulein Palin.

Brett–I do not find challenges to our President to be worthy of censorship, in and of themselves. However, these challenges would have to be substantive. Here, they are not. The only people you will hear criticizing President Obama get their marching orders from Fox News, and their anger is informed by their bigotry and blind hate. I would prefer that those kinds of messages be quarantined where they belong.

Finally, I’m sure I can speak for everyone outside the right-wing fringe when I say that we would all obviously appreciate it if we could, as a citizenry, continue to be of service to President Obama beyond 2017. Given the goodness in his heart, I am sure that he and Michelle would be more than happy to make the sacrifice. However, I in no way would support decreeing him to be President for Life. My advocacy for the repeal of the undemocratic 22nd Amendment is based on a requirement that regular elections would continue to be held. Finally, though, I’m also sure that most of us can agree that the current political situation, with rampant belief in lies like “death panels,” “birthers,” “Creationism,” and “fetal rights,” suggests that some kind of rudimentary intelligence for voting in this republic be mandated.

I am baffled by the failure of the Democratic party to capitalize on the authority given to them by the American people in the last election.

What should have happened… Obama wins presidency and strong legislative majorities. He lives up to his previous statements about single payer health care and congress passes the necessary legislation by the end of his first year in office.

What did happen… Obama 1st gets bogged down in continuing the stimulus and tarp programs begun by the last administration. When full prosperity and recovery don’t occur within 6 months, Obama is a failure. Then he is a Kenyan who is inelligible to be president. Then he is a muslim “Manchurian Candidate”. Then he is stuck in the middle of a dispute between a cop and a professor. Then he is ridiculed because he failed at luring the olympics to Chicago. Then he is attacked because an entity from the other side of the world gives him a “prize”. When it finally comes time for health care, he FOOLISHLY decides that bipartisanship is somehow important. The healthcare reform we get is worthless (almost).

If one party with this degree of control cannot take bold action, then I would argue that bold action is impossible. This is why I say our system is broken. It seems as though we are paralyzed by monied special interests and savage bipartisanship. My best idea is populist/progessive uprisings and a third party. I am also open to suggestions.

Yolonda, you are obviously not an American Citizen. The ideas you espouse are more akin to some backwater 3rd world dictatorship. I thought you might be misguided, but at this point I just feel that you are either here to ruffle feathers for kicks, totally insane, or most likely…Robert Mugabe’s bathroom assistant. I’d like to reciprocate you obvious sense of humor with a pointed assessment of your shenanigans here via a quotation from the movie Billy Madison.:

Mr. Madison (Yolonda), what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

you kids are kookie!

Perhaps a lot of the world sees the USA through rose-colored glasses. People come here carrying the proverbial torch, seeing the lady in the harbor promising hope and harbor. Nowadays, they have their hopes hugely stoked by sit-coms and movies depicting amazing liberties. Who knows what they imagine. But I suppose they come with that “innocent child” approach, wanting to shield the parent, preserve the image of invincibility. Even Americans who have been here a long time, lifelong free citizens, have trouble seeing where the troubles lie in this country and what to do about it. Numbers of people want to pounce on something to blame. We’ll try blaming Obama or the internet or the price of gas.
I would not vote for any of the third party candidates. None measures up (so far). I vote for the person with the very least amount of support, unless it comes in individual-sized pieces. I ignore campaign commercials. I think hard about how to mobilize the monies that Americans do have squirreled away, wondering how to get that into new ventures that can build a better world — not because of the government and its regulations (needed galore for the selfish stock-market types and their enterprises), ventures that will succeed not because of the government but in spite of it, I’m afraid to say. The idea of Future Bonds, a kind of socially responsible fund with $10 lottery-ticket-size shares, designed to start to do what the politicians can’t, that is as far as I get. If they fail, the USA fails. If they succeed, we get a piece of the pie.

Afghanistan is your war Democrats. You own it. Unfortunately, I’m afaraid we’ll get the typical Democratic results, excuses, ineptitude, and failure.

Louise,

We all own it. What is your desired endgame in Afghanistan?

“I am baffled by the failure of the Democratic party to capitalize on the authority given to them by the American people in the last election.”

“I say our system is broken.”

Well, which is it?…you’re baffled?….or our system is broken…? Cory, you typify the confusion of the left…you can’t have what you want, but you can’t determine why…never a recipe for success.

Tiger,
I have to say, that seems like a very cheap way of reducing discourse to “winning.” You’ve cherry-picked another person’s words and have taken them out of context. I am not impressed.

Can’t a system be broken and someone find disappointment in leadership, as well. I don’t know, maybe you perceive everything one dimensionally or in a series of absolutism. I am disappointed, as well. And the system IS broken. I think many people feel that. Conservatives are always absolutely sure of the right course of action, whether this is a reality or not. I can’t say that I am a Democrat or that I am against everything a traditional Conservative is about, but I will say that Republicans don’t seem to be about anything anymore except platitudes, spin, “winning” and fear mongering. The “system” has put lobbies/corporate power in the driver’s seat and made it so expensive for someone to hold public office they have to accept donations from special interests; and, Democrats seem to have lost the art of playing politics and present a unified front (something the Republicans do very well). Is it really that difficult to keep two different concepts juxtaposed in the same thought process?

Yolanda if your name was Jack I would still have asked you your age. Why? Because your attitude and sensibility seems more like that of an adolescent than an adult.

However, there are some resolutions that Obama could’ve effected within the past 8-1/2 months by the stroke of a pen via Executive Orders. For example, the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, Extreme Rendition/Secret Prisons/Torture, John Warner Defense Authorization Act, domestic Warrant-less Wire-tapping and searches, etc., etc.—not to mention his failure to hold Bush/Cheney accountable for their administration’s unconstitutional assaults upon liberty by these policies. Obama has not only failed to repeal these threats to liberty, but he has expanded some of their powers since he has taken office.

Yolanda Todd’s summation outlines my concerns exactly, so I’m repeating his comments.

Obama is a disappointment because he has failed not only too do all the above but he has also failed with health care, and the economy speaks for itself. Granted he inherited this from 8 years of Bush, but he hired LARRY SUMMERS and Geithner to run the economy, which has turned out to be a HUGE mistake.

Your other comments which point to your philosophical leanings on political dissent are very telling. Are you aware of how un-progressive and regressive they are?

You say Obama saved us from McCain and Palin, wrong, he has not saved us, he was voted in by a majority of Americans who believed in his platform. People like me. I’m not impressed, and just as Pete Townsand wrote so many years ago, “meet the new boss, same as the old boss” I am inclined too lean to this assessment.
As much as it pains me because I was hoping for some change, some progressive leadership beyond what I am seeing here. I will also include all of the democrat’s as well as they seem to be incapable of doing anything.

I think our American experiment with democracy is failing, and failing fast.

I am reading this news story on danverpost.com:

“Alex Lange is a chubby, dimpled, healthy and happy 4-month-old. But in the cold, calculating numbered charts of insurance companies, he is fat. That’s why he is being turned down for health insurance.”

The story explains the Insurance companies would not insure babies over 95 percentile. Nice. Let’s review our history: genocide of the natives, slavery of the Africans, lynchings of the same, segregation, and now this. What a proud nation.

There is a NPR program called The Take Away, which airs at 6:00 where I live, and today I heard I believe someone from the New York Times telling an astonished host (and an astonished me) that the banks may indeed be tapped to help us out, to use their profits for what I suppose we wanted the TARP money to be used for to begin with: to stimulate recovery.
I thought, I woke with a terrible headache, and this is a mad illusion. The banks, if taxed to such an end, will pass along that tax to borrowers (just as insurers will pass along the tax on “Cadillac” — costly — health plans to their insureds).
I will believe the banks will hand over the reins to The People the day I see Obama firing Larry Summers and Tim Geithner. And then I too will build Obama a bookcase for his Nobel.

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham (I checked the spelling) yesterday said he would build such a bookcase if Obama (to his mind) earned the Nobel. Very big of him.

“I think our American experiment with democracy is failing, and failing fast”. (Mr. Putny Swope) Hell no! America and American democracy are very much alive and well, what is failing are anti-American individuals like yourself Putny Swope who only want to put this country down. You hate this country so much you can’t even think straight. Why don’t you do us all a big favor and leave this country if you think it’s so awful. I’ll even take time off work to see you off at the airport. I’ll be the one giving you the one finger salute, Mr. Putny Swope.

Louise your such a stereotype of the “Ugly American” who hides behind the flag and screams obscenities in the name of nationalism.

Your the type who we saw spiting and yelling a African American children when the schools were first de-segregated in the 60’s; all in the name of flag and country. Was that not you yelling and screaming at people looking for justice and equality in Selma. Was that not you who screamed at the protesters during the Vietnam war era. Was that not you calling all who opposed the war in Iraq traitor’s, all in the name of flag and country.

I don’t hate this country, quite the contrary. I’m scared about it’s future. That’s what I meant. It’s ruled by the special interest and that’s the meaning behind my comments. Of course you and your type do not want too hear what others have to say, you just want to yell and shut down people who do not have the same views as you. Your idea of America points to ignorance, bigotry and intolerance.

“Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he/she is hollering about.”

“Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest.”

–Mark Twain

Didn’t Mark Twain use the term “Nigger” in several of his written works, and multiple times throughout? Btw, the United States was a much more stable, and prosperous society before the upheaval of the 1960’s; FACT. So, if Louise is an “Ugly American” it’s in the eye of the beholder. The age of progressive, leftist, social reform is over. It’s darn near destroyed the nation, on road to hell paved with good intentions. I’d take the 1950’s and all the good and bad that went with it over today any day of the week. Nothing is ever perfect, but what we have today caters to the few, at the cost of the many.

I’d take the 1950’s and all the good and bad that went with it over today any day of the week.

I bet you would not say that if you were an African American living in Mississippi in the 50’s.

You contradict yourself, on the one hand you mention that Mark Twain used the word “nigger” in his work. Then you go on to praise the era that was defined by segregation, a very scary nuclear arms race. How nostalgic of of you and so selective of what was good. Your pointing to an illusion, a myth of a “Leave It to Beaver” world that never existed.

By the way Mark Twain was a man of his times, and his use of what we now see as offensive words does not take away from his astute observational abilities.

I’ll say the same to you Quail, blindly thinking your country is the greatest thing since the Roman Empire or Swiss Cheese is a fools game. I tend to think the idea of a democracy is that one should be able to be critical and to voice an opinion without people telling you to shut up just because they don’t like what they are hearing. Nothing wrong with loving your country, what is wrong is letting that blind you from any rotational discourse.

I repeat this as you seem to not to able to understand the meaning behind this quote.

“Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest.”

–Mark Twain

I have another question for those who think my view point that we are failing as a democracy is wrong. Why do you support the status quo of the political agendas being controlled by special interest? In the case of health care debacle the insurance and pharmaceutical corporations are calling the shots. They buy influence.

Swope, you seem to me the sort that thinks that women had no voice in politics before womens suffrage. Yeah, most men never actually loved their wives, and women didn’t run their households until recent times. Whatever. Your ideas are based upon academia, rather than intuition, and look at the state of innovation, and creativity today vs. 50 years ago. No my-friend, in this life you should leap before you look, and glean more than you know. When you realize that this is how the world has, and still does to a large extent, run, you can throw out all of those ideas and statistics that never helped anyone at the time they were collected. You wouldn’t know how it really was in the 1950’s. You weren’t there. You only know what a politically correct book tells you.

Constantine are you serious? 50 years ago we were all using vacuum tubes to help power our radios and record players. TV’s were primitive little boxes that hardly worked. Children still caught polio in the 50’s and died from the mumps. I’m not a PC kind of person and that comment, which I assume is aimed at my statement about segregation in this country, is pretty loaded.

Let’s see in the 50’s people drove death traps for cars, if you were Jewish it was common to see signs that told you were not allowed. All the schools in the South were segregated as in some areas in the North, such as Boston.
Jim Crow was alive and well. The part about women and wives is what is a lot of nonsense and has nothing to do with anything. Your trying to paint this picture of right out of a Norman Rockwell Saturday Evening Post illustration which is funny because Rockwell’s own wife was driven to drink by his abusive behavior.

Nostalgia is a comforting opiate. I’m sure in the 50’s there were people like yourself going on how wonderful it was in 1910. Well I’m sure it was for some, but not those who had to work in a sweat shop for 14 hours a day for almost nothing. People love to talk about “the good ol days”. Well in 1910 the streets of lower Manhattan stank and there were dead horses just left were they dropped. The common cause of death was TB, cholera outbreaks were common, malnutrition was rampant in the lower Manhattan tenements.

My father grew up in the late 40’s in Brooklyn and came of age in the early 50’s and while he always loved his neighborhood if you pressed him he would talk about how messed up it really was. How his father had to pay protection money to a local gangster. If he strayed into the Irish or Italian neighborhoods there was a good chance of getting his butt kicked. My father was drafted in late 45 and was beat up by a bunch of Southerners when they caught him praying on a Friday night with his prayer shawl in a corner of the barracks he was in.
Ah yes the good ol’ days of yesteryear when men were men and women were women and gays had to stay in the closet.
When African Americans would have to answer to “boy” and worse.

Again, you’re just regurgitating what you’ve read out of sanctioned, politically motivated, leftist textbooks. You’re newest post is exactly what was addressed with my words just above it. It’s like you read it, didn’t comprehend any of it, and just decided to say the same exact thing again. Something in the way son; Oooh yeah. You’re just a pawn son. You’re not applying or seeking out real life experience here. Being the best at ROTE is like being the best at exercising. Good for you, but it doesn’t have any real practical benefit outside of maybe personal gratification.

Constantine what are you talking about. You make a statement that the 50’s were some kind of wonderful time period for the US. They were not. I forgot to mention the McCarthy hearings.

Like I said nostalgia is a fun drug that you seem very found of. I bet you long for the days when daddy would drive up to the perfect house in the perfect subdivision to the perfect wife and children. Personal gratification?

I guess all those lynchings in the 50’s were just some “left wing” propaganda.

This statement of yours sums up your complete lack of any understanding of history or the realities that other people lived in times you seem so found of. “just regurgitating what you’ve read out of sanctioned, politically motivated, leftist textbooks”

Leftist textbooks, that’s real funny. I don’t read leftist textbooks. I grew up with friends who’s fathers were black listed in the 50’s. This was a fact, not some made up story.

Your lack of understanding of facts of this era are only out done by your patronizing tone. Segregation and Jim Crow were a reality. Jews being a barred from restaurants, clubs and neighborhoods were a reality. They were not some leftist tripe thought up by some left wing history professor.

One more thing, you think your being smart, your not.
Your revealing yourself as a bigot, or worse, one who hides behind a false sense of his self worth with the illusion that is makes him superior to others. Being that your so nostalgic for the 50’s, I’m not surprised as most white men from that period thought they were better than anyone darker than them.

I am old enough to remember the late ’50’s and early ’60’s. I remember seeing signs that said ‘coloreds only’ and ‘whites only’ (I am from the south). I live in the small southern town in which I grew up (moved back nine years ago). My neighbor across the street (a black woman) organized a lunch counter sit-in at our local drug store in the early ’60’s. Many of these remnants of that time lingered on in the south even into the early ’70’s in terms of whole towns staying completely segregated.

Generally, Woman and children were treated very differently in those times.

Prior to the Environmental Protection Act in ‘69, the country was really dirty. I remember how polluted any place where there was a major highway or river or lake was. I remember my mother telling me she had regularly swum in the Potomac river in Washington, D.C. when she was a teen in the early ’40’s. We had visited the Capital in 1961 (probably the time she related the story). I did not believe her (she later showed me photos). The river was VERY polluted in the late ’50’s and early ’60’s.

Any gay person from that era can tell of stories that would sound unbelievable to a young person. People stayed completely closeted.

My father’s brother died in Korea; my father was, “luckily,” disabled in an earlier accident during his Parris Island basic training and was discharged. He walked with those metal crutches for most of the ’50’s and ’60’s. He was a working-class man; it was palpable that he was treated like a “cripple” by his peers. My uncles who had gone into the military just after WWII told me of civilian men treated like commies if they weren’t in uniform. That mentality lingered into the early ’50’s.

‘I’d take the 1950’s and all the good and bad that went with it over today any day of the week. Nothing is ever perfect, but what we have today caters to the few, at the cost of the many.’ -Constantine Quail

Constantine may want to return to the ’50’s, but those times catered to even fewer than these do. He either lived in a bubble if he lived back then, or he listens to old, reactionary types who talk about the “good old days.” Or he IS one of those old reactionary types. I saw what I’ve described first-hand.