About the health care endgame:

This weekend I sent letters and small contributions to the three moderate Senators who came through on Saturday and voted against filibuster. Lincoln, Landrieu, and Nelson had a hard time with this vote, partly because they come from conservative states. They deserve our support. They mostly hear negative comments when they do something wrong, so it’s important to also contact them to show support when they do something right. We will need their support several more times in the next few weeks.

On Point,

What can your panel say about the politicians who stand in the way of health care reform? Aren’t they only blocking this very important issue to make money for insurance companies and for other selfish reasons?

Lincoln, Landrieu, and Nelson should just join the Republicans and stop pretending. The vote was merely a vote to bring the bill to the floor. The talking heads keep talking about a Republican filibuster but there is no such thing. If a filibuster occurs in the Senate, it will be a Democratic filibuster because it is not possible to filibuster with only 40 votes. Those three do not deserve our support. They get all the praise and attention that they crave from the Sunday morning talk shows and other “news.”

We are the richest nation on the planet and yet we choose not to value all of our citizens. There is no excuse for letting people go bankrupt because of medical bills or not get medical care. Every other developed country has figured out a way to care for their citizens and keep costs under control. Between the banks that are too big to fail and the medical insurance monopoly, the people don’t stand a chance. If Democrats stand in the way of this bill, they should stripped of their committee chair (which the Republican’s would do) and kicked out of the caucus. Of course, that won’t happen because it’s not about having a majority with which to govern, it’s about power.

mitch inbedford, ma,
Blanche Lincoln, [D] of Arkansas, is facing a particularly difficult re-election battle next year. The members of Congress have a tough job balancing what their state’s voters want with what the country wants, and with what is best sometimes irrespective of what either want! You are right in that they mostly hear what people don’t like about them or their decisions, and often this is misguided. I have to give you credit for your behavioral approach to the three Senators. We all should write letters to politicians who do the right thing; mostly we write letters to politicians who do the wrong thing or letters of need.

they couldnt have printed the bill double-sided?

HEALTHCARE

Healthcare is a “universal” issue, that is, it is a universal subject. Nothing can move without appropriate healthcare. A good healthcare bill says something about every aspect of human life.

A healthcare bill simply means that HEALTHCARE is affordable enough to be addressed. So when HEALTHCARE is heard in the media it is in reference to the “addressablity” of healthcare.

A good healthcare plan should take into consideration:

AFRICAN AMERICAN-ism
–irresolution within the confines of the U.S.

IMMIGRATION
–or be mistaken for Global Health Insurance

A union between these two traditional aspects of American Life or at least its consideration where choosing an appropriate Health Care Plan, is a good goal for the economy.

I have been a dedicated supporter of healthcare reform for years. My biggest concern with this bill is that as far as I understand, it puts no cap on how much insurance companies can charge those they insure. So they are about to get millions of new customers, and they can’t charge them extra for pre-existing conditions, but they can charge all their customers more to make up for it. At first I thought this bill was at least going to be an improvement and I still hope it will be, but I am skeptical.

It should have like “When Obama Speaks Everybody Listens” mode at the time when the Healthcard debate is on the table. So opposing the Public Option and the Real Reform should have been impossible to oppose, so that the interest groups would be scared to open their mouths.

Obama should have gained momentum first and become the champion of the People for the People.

First, He should have pissed of the Goldman and Wall Steet, by having the District Courts postpone home payments for shady mortgage contracts. 99% popular support.

And then, he should have put Cheney and Bush into Jail, until they tell us Why We Really Invaded Iraq – just to prove that when it comes to American Lives and American Money, we need 100% Accountability – not 4%.

Then leverage his power and popularity to pass any healthcare reform bill he wanted.

It was that simple.

Liang from Beijing

“they couldnt have printed the bill double-sided?”
Posted by gabrielle

Why did they even bother to print the bill at all? I assure you, not even one of those idiots in the Senate will fully read it before voting on it anyway! Our government is a sick joke, and we’re the punch line.

An obvious question I have not heard yet……

Compare the healthcare reform to the education increases in California, 30 percent of the tuition increase is to subsidize other consumers of education. Same is true with health care. Health insurance is a regressive tax on the middle class. Indigent care should be funded through a progressive tax structure not as a surcharge on each policy. Please get to the economic truth to how we are funding 20 percent of our GDP.

Universal single payer: Never mentioned after the election.

Public Option: Brought up to soothe progressives, then beaten and dilluted into meaninglessness.

The ONLY benefit of what they may pass is the possibility that it will act as a “foot in the door” to later meaningful changes.

The worst part of this process has been my initial hope and assumption that we were serious about doing something meaningful.

If the conservatives are right and we cannot afford healthcare for all, then perhaps the American experiment is winding down to it’s natural conclusion.

An obvious question I have not heard yet…… With 10% unemployment and a slow recovery projected in jobs AND the delays in health care reform, WHY NOT EXTEND COBRA TO 24 MONTHS FROM 18 MONTHS?
It is the easiest way to make sure the ranks of the uninsured does not go up astronomically.

Oh god please can someone please do something about Joe Lieberman!?

I’d like to nominate Lieberman and Arlen Specter for our first manned flight to Mars.

Two men who stand for nothing but their own re-election. Is it lost on anyone that both changed parties for no reason other than to hold on to their offices? They are disgusting and represent the worst of American Democracy. Saw Lieberman on Meet the Press and had to tun the channel!

How does someone with no job afford Cobra? Extend it if it helps people I guess. I had to be on Cobra for three months once and it just about broke me! Universal Healthcare please! (Whether sooner or later)

Why should the American people expect and accept that their Senators and Representatives supply the people with inferior health care coverage than they vote for themselves?

Three points:
1) Only “nation” that has not progressed to providing health care to all it’s citizens.
2) Healthcare Reform in the US has always happened progressively, a little at a time, and we are at it again.
3) Healthcare insurance is exempt from Antitrust Laws.
4) Polls or democratic opinion is irrelevant when it comes to certain topics (i.e. human rights). If we relied on polls for voting rights, we will not be where we are now. George W. Bush was right when he said I do not look at the polls.

Why am I not hearing any discussion of mental health cover in Health Care Reform? Also, why am I not hearing how self-insured companies will be affected? Self-insured companies AVOID state insurance regulations and this is a widely practiced approach. They DO have to comply with certain Federal guidelines, up to now NOT very demanding. My health cover comes from a self-insured plan which is not very good – will I be stuck with it (in which case Health Care Reform is doing nothing for me) or will I be able to choose a public option instead?

In Joe Lieberman’s case, the state of Connecticut is practically owned by the insurance industry. Hartford is the insurance capital of the United States. Lieberman is probably beholden to the insurance lobbyists who got him elected.

The anti abortion folk should support a single payer Government run system that doesn’t offer abortion services. I am pro choice but would support a single payer system that did not offer abortion services. States should have the option to offer single payer option, or we should pass a single payer amendment to the constitution.

Aaaaugh!!! They just missed an opportunity to debunk a myth that conservatives are spreading about the health care reform. Nobody will be thrown in jail for not getting health insurance. The caller was sincere in his belief that this is true, as are millions of other uninformed Americans. Mr. Ashbrook, please don’t assume that people are being facetious when they call in with seemingly ridiculous comments. People actually believe this stuff.

Notice david said that the more people cover should have a offset in premiums for the ones who already do? Yet this did not happen at all in Mass. Does that not tell you something. He side-steped that fact that you can go to jail in mass for not having health care.

This bill seems now to only provide as many kick backs as possiable for certain senators, and there be many more. The liberal seem the only ones losing out on this as it gets watered down and the more moderate and independent sentors take theres.

Mass Health care is junk, and didn’t do what it was set to do. Coverage in name only .

The fact is, my taxes go towards several federally funded things that I do not support. Trillions of dollars spent on pointless wars, the NYPD that consistently harasses and physically assaults African-Americans and gets away with it, the incarceration and execution of prisoners, this trillion-dollar-bailout!! Abortion is a legal medical procedure. Catholics do not have a special right to pick and choose what their money goes towards. I say, repeal the Hyde Amendment and let’s do away with this entire discussion.

How dare the Catholic Bishops impose their beliefs on me. I am not Catholic.
And, I pay taxes. The Church, as a tax-exempt entity, does not.
Why so they have a larger voice than I do?

How is that the Catholic Church is still tax exempt? Enough! The Catholic church has been lobbying in violation of their tax exempt status for years. The Catholic church has no right to dictate legal health care for non-Catholics and those who believe in Catholicism have free will also (I think that was in the Old Testament).

To David: are you suggesting that representatives of southern Baptists, Jews, and Muslims are not politically active in American politics? Should they lose their exempt status as well? Free speech is absolute. Either everyone gets it, or no one.

The catholic church are nothing but hypocrites.

Why aren’t they screaming about tax dollars going to kill women and children through our wars?????

I am a Rhode Island resident and Patrick Kennedy is my Congressman. He has done an outstanding job throughout his years in office and I am outraged that the Church is treating him this way. As citizens, members of the Catholic Church are certainly free to assert their position on the issues and to try to get legislation shaped to their liking. However, I believe that the Church as an institution has stepped far over the line and has been inappropriately mixing politics and religion in the way it has been pressuring Congress. Moreover, the Church supposedly is also against the death penalty and the war in Iraq. When was the last time the Church ordered or asked Catholic politicians who supported the death penalty or the war to refrain from receiving communion? The hypocrisy is astounding. (I say all this from the perspective of an Anglican who has considered converting to Catholicism many times over the years and has been stopped by just this sort of thing.)

Where were these Catholic Bishops when all those altar boys were being abused.

Regarding the opposition to public funds to pay for abortion,it seems to me there is already a law to address this concern. However, there are a number of people who are opposed to their tax dollars funding the the destruction of life in the name of national defense. Does every group get to determine what their tax dollars get spent on? Of course not.

The “public option” available in my state offered no benefit to me except in case of catastrophe, and nearly got me banned from my doctor’s office. With deductibles and copays, barring extraordinary illness, this plan benefits me not at all and costa nearly 10 per cent of my take home pay. It seems my payment benefits only the insurer–in the case of a not-for-profit that means only keeping the machinery running. As a single mother struggling to maintain a home, this is not a good use of my dollars.

Surely the catholic church is on shaky ground here – isn’t it time that the IRS started investigating the political activities of the US RCs? They are now deep into political issues, and they can’t be a charity and be political.

Aside from that, the Bishops need to learn two things – humility (something that none of the established churches are very good at) and free-will. Something that the RCs absolutely hate!

Catholic clergy should attempt to influence their parishoners, not politicians and reporters.

I am Catholic and wouldn’t have or encourage others to use the procedure. I also am not interested in imposing this on others against their will.

The “communion controversy” is clearly, as your guest surmised, a political ploy that ignores the sacramental concept of communion.

Communion is the most intimate reflection of unity of belief as expressed by the community, i.e. church. If one doesn’t agree then one excludes oneself from the community – “communion” with the community. There is a meaning to the acceptance of the sacrament which many choose to ignore and treat it as some sort of ritual or less. I believe that this is where Bishop Tobin’s position is grounded.

“The catholic church are nothing but hypocrites.

Why aren’t they screaming about tax dollars going to kill women and children through our wars?????”
Posted by Brian

As are the majority of its critics. And the Catholic Church HAS condemned the Iraq/Afghan wars as being unjustified.

DON’T BE SELFISH!!

Help those 30 millions Americans that have no insurance.
support the health care bill

If don’t support it be ready to pay more premiums every year.

if you haven’t read the HEALTH CARE BILL.

It is almost 2,000 pages Because the Size of the font is about 18 to 25. Huge big letters that anyone can understand.

The main goal of the bill is for Pre-existing condition and to cover all legal American without health insurance

Please read it before We Whine about its context.

Understand and Educate yourself. the bill is for the future of our country and for our kids.

I am 100% Roman Catholic. I don’t have to follow my faith because I have my own rights who to believe and to listen.

Because they are not even better than me.

We all have sinned.

I am shocked at how people view MA as a success story on healthcare. We still have 200,000 unisured (b/c they cannot afford it), the cost of insurance has increased for ALL groups. The cost of services (colonoscopies, check-ups, medication, etc) has increased. The real issue was never addressed. MA is not a healthier state and we are now faced with an enormous bill that no one knows how to pay.

Healthcare reform will not succeed until we make access to CARE universal and the COST of CARE affordable. Insurance is not CARE. Insurance is a middle man pocketing a fee to broker a deal, similar to a realtor, or a car salesman. Buy without the middleman and you can save a bundle!

I am not sure that healthcare should be a for profit business. I would like to see the costs of care fixed (eg colonoscopy = $200, check-up = $35, OB-GYN exam = $45). Once the cost is known to the consumer and it is consistent across the board I as the consumer can make a decision and determine if I want to spend $9,000/yr on insurance when I am likley to have 2 check-ups and a colonoscopy (total = $270). This is a simplified example but the point is until we get at the actual cost of CARE everything else is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and it is the insurance companies who will get paid BILLIONS to rearrange those chairs.

With regards to abortion. The Supreme Court ruled with Roe v. Wade that abortion was legal. Now Congress is in essence trying to pass a bill that says “It will be illegal for you to do something that has been ruled as legal.”? Come on!!!

Catholic Church or ANY church for that matter just shut-up!!! I have never seen such an intollerant “my way or the highway” group of people as I have in religion and churches. Please lock yourselves in your temples of intolerance and hate, continue preaching “We are right everyone else is wrong”, and leave the rest of us alone…

High cost of care

If you have a hospital has a $200.00 claim the insurance company will only pay $75.00 or less for that $200.00 claim.

That’s how much Hospitals charge but they actually lose money.

if you are familiar what happened to all Hospitals in Boston in the 90s a lot of them were broke. The first one to go was that hospital in Boston China town.

Todd,

You wrote that, “the Catholic Church HAS condemned the Iraq/Afghan wars as being unjustified.”

If you believed every claim made before we attacked Iraq, it was still a preventive war (not a preemptive war as the Bush administration preferred to label it).
A preemptive war can be a just war, but a preventive war is not a just war. Iraq is the poster child for an unjust and thus immoral war. However, while the Catholic Church spoke in opposition to the war, it never suggested that Catholics should not participate in it, it never told any Catholic participant (military or legislative) that they should not take communion, and they continue to supply chaplains who are there to support the mission of the military. (If you don’t believe they are there to support the mission, ask yourself what would happen to a chaplain who told his troops that Iraq was an unjust war and Catholics should not take part in such an immoral venture.)

When your job is to provide moral leadership, you need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Actions speak louder than words, after all. I think the Catholic Church’s action with respect to the Iraq war speak for themselves.

WRT abortion rules in healthcare reform: If the Catholic and other churches insist on enshrining their religious views in healthcare policy, they are trying to erase the separation of church and state. I have no problem with any religious person following, and speaking out for, her/his beliefs. As an American, I have a BIG problem with religious groups, which are tax exempt, directly lobbying Congress as actively as the Catholic bishops – and yes, fundamentalist Christian churches – has done on the abortion issue. The Christian church I belong to does not baptise miscarriages or stillborn babies; I do NOT believe that life begins at conception. The belief that life begins at conception is a religious belief,not a scientific one. It must be understood that legislating against abortion OR contraception (which will follow)is legislating religious belief. I do not accept the ability of any religious group to control the actions of all Americans to serve particularly religious beliefs.

@Jim T:

Yes, actions do speak louder than words. However, while it is the Catholic Church’s duty to publicly address the morality of such issues, the duty to listen to and act upon the Church’s pronouncements on moral issues rest with the individual—whether they be soldiers, civilians, or military chaplains. I would tend to agree with you that a stronger stance by the Church on such an issue (i.e., unjust U.S. wars) is in order. But, if it were to do so, then same critics of the Church’s more muted position on the issue would turn to accuse the Church of taking a overly political posture that violates the separation of Church/State. Still, even based upon the Church’s position as stated on these unjust wars, it isn’t difficult for individuals to draw the correct conclusion and act accordingly. If one is told that the stove is hot, then should it truly be necessary to be told to not touch it? No, not if common sense is applied. Ultimately, any failure committed in this instance is rightly laid at the feet of each individual, not the Church.

“As an American, I have a BIG problem with religious groups, which are tax exempt, directly lobbying Congress as actively as the Catholic bishops – and yes, fundamentalist Christian churches – has done on the abortion issue.”
Posted by June T

You fail to acknowledge that Church members—which comprise the Church and are the source of its support—are NOT tax-exempt. It’s no different than members of Congress being lobbied by tax-exempt 501(c)(3) groups on the behalf of corporations, as long as they don’t engage in “political activity. The members of those “religious groups” are no less American than you.

Cory,
I could have easily quoted your whole comment from today @10;12 am, but I’ll just say that it sums up my general sentiment about what has transpired with the administration’s failure and Congress’ debate and, soon to be, health care bill. About all I can say, otherwise, is I hope the section on ensuring insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions will stay and doesn’t get watered down or axed in further Congressional wrangling.

P.S.-I also had to laugh (in agreement) about Lieberman and Specter!

Todd,

I don’t disagree with your analysis regarding the duty of each individual when it comes to issues of morality. I do have a problem with the Catholic Churches’ inconsistency. If you’re going to insist that a Catholic legislator vote the Church’s position on one major moral issue, then you ought to make that demand in all such cases. A lack of consistency is a sure way to lose your moral authority.

I suppose, to the Catholic Church, considering that any form of contraception is not 100% foolproof (and considering the Church has looked down on artificial contraception throughout the years, as well as child bearing out of wedlock, homosexuality, oral sex, etc.), sex should only be between a man and woman who are married for the express purposes of procreation, then the Church can keep their stance on abortion or any position on sex, for that matter, “clean.” All other sexual acts would be considered a sin. Why don’t priests start getting permission from their local archdiocese to ask parishioners, who engage in any sex acts not for the purposes of procreation among married people, to refrain from Communion? Maybe they should have parishioners fill out semi-annual questionnaires on the matter! Maybe the Church should just excommunicate all members of the Church who have sex other than for married people trying to procreate!

…The Bishops are playing politics, here; it is disingenuous to say that Kennedy was the only one who was playing politics. And IF the Church is going to try to exert such control and influence over Catholic politicians, THEN maybe Catholics shouldn’t hold public office at all!

Roe v. Wade provides that women can have legal abortions up to the point that the fetus can be viable outside the womb (with some exceptions). Clearly that law’s spirit about when life starts is not at the point of conception! And please spare us the rhetoric of “abortion is murder!” That is utter hyperbole! If you really believe that then you should also believe that doctors who perform abortions should be convicted and put in jail for the rest of their lives for first-degree murder; and, by the same token, women undergoing the abortions should be put in prison for conspiracy to commit murder.

Americans spent more than $84 billion on Catholic-affiliated health care last year alone. The Church has thousands of clinics, hospitals and nursing facilities, so they are in the health care business in a big way. Aside from restricting funding (both direct and indirect) for all kinds of reproductive services and not just abortion, the Stupak/Pitts Amendment does much more than bring the Catholic Church a moral victory; it serves to omit a competitive advantage that secular, as well as other religiously-affiliated hospitals, have over Catholic health care institutions. I would argue that Catholic Bishops are doing a whole lot more than looking out for the concerns of its flock! The Church is concerned about its bottom line [$$$] much more so than any moral aspects of the abortion issue.

Is it 1509? Why are we still talking about the power of the Catholic church? The fact that we are points to our broken system. The fact that a tax exempt super power can still pull the levers of democracy is disgusting.

The Catholic Church must be stripped of its tax exempt status. Any church that engages in direct political activity (such as denying communion to a governmental official based on their actions as such) should have to pay taxes and be regulated.

As a student of history, particularly the middle ages (and a Christ follower), I can wholeheartedly say, “screw the Catholic church.” It’s evil and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

Brett, I think you summed it very clearly in the previous post.

Obamacare is dead. All you liberals (socialists) can’t seem to get that through your thick skulls. The fact is that Americans don’t want their health care benefits taxed, they don’t want their tax dollars to pay for abortions, they don’t want single payer, or death panels, or govt. rationing of health care. That is why Obamacare is going to fail, the same way “your” president is.

Why isn’t anyone talking about the elephant in the room? Perhaps it would have been better to vote today after the 60 Minute piece last night about the government spending billions on unnecessary procedures include organ transplant for minimally ill elderly patients?
The republicans will fight anything proposed with spin and propaganda to try to gain back power. If the Democrats presented the cost for the uninsured using emergency rooms for their general practitioner and the unnecessary procedures and tests on elderly and terminally ill patients, the cost for the bill would be offset by many billions dollars and would leave the republicans with their hats in their hands.

Louise, I’m surprised to see such an ignorant, myth-latent position on Tom’s comment board. First, to be liberal is not to be a socialist. Secondly, if you earn $250k or more, you’ll be taxed (most Americans don’t earn that amount of money). Thirdly, tax money will not be used to pay for abortions. And, if it is, get over it. Abortion is legal. my tax dollars pay for your stupid wars. I don’t bitch about it. Lastly, single payer is not on the table. Oh, death panels – that idiocy does not even warrant a response. Oh, he’s your President too. Bye now. Back to your teabagging (look it up).

As of 4:00 pm today:
*US Nat’l debt— $12,027,325,000,000 as in trillions.
*If you are taxpayer,50% of us, you owe–$110,659.00
*US unfunded liabilities—$106,244,463,000,000
*your part to pay—$344,942.00
Rasmussen’s latest poll:
*Healthcare: 38% approve 60% disapprove
*Obama’s approval rating: 46% approve 53% disapprove
Gallup’s latest poll:
*Congress approval rating: 21% approval
Illinois Policy Institute:
*Healthcare bill will cost 3.9 million jobs.
*Healthcare bill will increase cost by 5.6%
The bill itself:
*Small business will see a 20% tax increase.
*payment into it begins on day one and benefits do not start till 2014. Now thats a good deal!
And Americans want this group to be incharge of their healthcare? Senator Schumer stated,they are going to ram this bill through.
My question, Who is going to pay for all this? It is projected that the Nat’l debt in 10 more years will be 24 Trillion dollars at its current pace. I have a business and economic degree and this just does’nt add up. I dare any of you to run your family and businesses like the congress runs our country.

Cut military spending by 50%. Problem solved.

The health care bill is a joke and I’m with Bernie Sanders on this.
By the way he wont vote for it in its’ present state.
I don’t blame him. It amazes me how dysfunctional we are as a nation, health care reform seems so obvious too me.

http://sanders.senate.gov

I have an idea lets just do away with all health care, period. While we are at lets get rid of public education, all grants for education and just have a nation in which you have money or you don’t. If you can’t afford it, die.

david your figures conventionality leave out all the BS we do overseas. The absurd amount we spend on the military from planes, tanks and ships we don’t need or use.

The debt does need addressing that is a forgone conclusion, but if the nation is nothing but a nation of chronically ill people what’s the point of defending it?

Putney,
I agree with you 100% on wasteful adventures, but the ever growing debt will someday have to be paid. We can not afford to keep adding to this ever growing bubble. I am all for bringing our troops home and telling these seemly lazy countries to fend for themselves. I am also for stopping the practice of foreign aid in order to kiss the rears of countries in order to keep their friendship. War is big business,the US has done enough. A people will get the govenment they deserve, one by fighting for it, or two, doing nothing. By the way, my state is #5 in diabetes due in many cases by our quest to be soon #1 in the obese satistic. In the coming years these two chronic problems will skyrocket.

I am very torn because even though the majority of American people now support the reform of health care and the public option, the only bill that seems to have any hope of being passed does not go far enough. How can we go to war with so little debate, discussion and so little compassion, but can not pass a good health care bill?

“Todd,
I don’t disagree with your analysis regarding the duty of each individual when it comes to issues of morality. I do have a problem with the Catholic Churches’ inconsistency. If you’re going to insist that a Catholic legislator vote the Church’s position on one major moral issue, then you ought to make that demand in all such cases. A lack of consistency is a sure way to lose your moral authority.”
Posted by Jim T

Can’t say that I disagree with you one iota. And, well, if I were Pope, an equal emphasis on issues of moral concern would indeed be the case. But again, the duty to abide by the moral norms set forth is incumbent upon individuals.

“Cut military spending by 50%. Problem solved.
Posted by Mark, on November 23rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm EST”

I totally agree when i was in the military i send so much waste, and redundant paper work that sees to almost always get loss and inventory always seem to be recounted. I remember when obama won the election and we had our morning briefing and our staff sergeant said ” Ok guys i’m not going to be able to give you more gear when you loss it and i’m going to start keeping track unlike bush obama is going to start keeping track on our spending”

Just think of this everyone can agree on the Afgan government and Iraq being pretty dam corrupt. Just think about the waste and money we give them go to pay outs of corrupt officials.

As for the health care bill i bet the pre-existing condition probably the only thing good about it will further get shredded as the bill go on. Also for the ones claiming this bill is socalism and singer-payer you’re DUMB.

the public plan was a compromise at the beginning to the moderate dems and republican and started getting watered down since. Instead of trying to model it after the Swiss they went with Massachusetts which so far is a failure.

1) Who wants their tax dollars to fund medical facilities that do NOT offer reproductive services of any kind? 2) How about this: who wants their tax dollars to support medical facilities run by Catholic Church organizations? Especially when one thinks about the profits those facilities make. Most of the various clinics, hospitals, and nursing facilities that are Catholic-affiliated receive some form of federal funding.

1) Many Americans don’t want to see tax dollars restricted for abortion counseling because it will adversely affect poor women, and even information will be restricted. 2) I don’t like having my tax dollars used for a lot of things I don’t agree with, not the least of which being to subsidize Catholic-affiliated health organizations.

Based on the language of the Stupak/Pitts Amendment, no funds will be provided to any medical facility that discusses options with patients other than carrying a pregnancy to full term. That means health care professionals will NOT be able to EVEN DISCUSS options for women who are pregnant and want advice, or the facilities may risk having their funding streams cut off. So, any health department, any clinic, any hospital, any medical facility that receives federal funds of any kind, whether direct funding or indirect funding will NOT be able to give advice on abortion, have any brochures around on abortion, or direct patients to facilities that do have information on reproductive services that include abortion counseling, or anything of the kind if they want to receive funding. This will preclude most medical facilities from getting funding. Most private insurance plans will not be able to cover abortions (90% of them receive some sort of reimbursement related to government funding). The effect of Stupak/Pitts will be that women will not be able to even get information about abortion, let alone abortions themselves, unless they are wealthy women.

Lincoln, Landrieu and Nelson are playing the kind of politics that Lieberman and Specter play: election for the sake of re-election…

I am getting to the point where if there will be no public option in the bill, and the Stupak/Pitts language is not removed, then I don’t want to see the health insurance bill passed.

david,
The Rasmussen polls are collected week to week, and they track on two days at the beginning of each week, this week’s sample could mean anything and nothing at all. At the end of Sept. opposition was as high as today. At the beginning of August and the middle of July, opposition was as high as now. There were many other weeks in the poll where there was virtually a dead heat, and even some weeks when those who favored the bill were in the majority. The poll numbers don’t reflect a gradual increase in opposition but a fluctuation from week to week. This could mean that people don’t like various things, from the public option being taken off the table to the Stupak/Pitts Amendment. It could mean that people like the idea of health care reform but don’t like the way the bill is getting watered down, etc. It could mean anything.

The Illinois Policy Institute touts itself as a nonpartisan, research institute. It is, however, in reality, distinctly conservative and libertarian. How do they arrive at the conclusion that the health care bill will cost 3.9 million jobs? How do they arrive at a 20% tax increase for small business? Even more importantly, why do they arrive at these numbers? Hint: they are playing with numbers and distorting them to support their agenda/ideology. An example: they are big into researching education reforms, but they go into the research with an agenda: to support privatizing education (a conservative/libertarian view). It’s no wonder they found that 4 out of 5 Illinois parents want school vouchers enabling them to send their children to private schools. It is also no surprise that this organization will come up with data that do not support government’s role in health care, because that goes against their ideology.

As far as predicting what the National Debt will be 10 years from now…economic predictions have historically been wrong when projecting that far into the future.

I was almost beginning to wonder where Louise was… The fact that you actually use the words “death panel” indicate to me that you have pulled your nose out of Sarah Palin’s book long enough to grace us with a response…

Once again you illustrate perfectly the far right close-minded view. “We” are all wrong, and need to get it through our “thick skulls” and see things your way. I must admit that I don’t agree with everyone’s point of view on here but I do believe that dialogue is the only way that we can all even hope to come to a mutual understanding. You on the other hand seem to believe we all need to simply think like YOU and the world will be in harmony…

In all fairness, Brett, I answer your questions with these questions: Who wants to see their tax dollars spent on $5,000 screwdrivers? Who wants to see their tax dollars robbed by citizens who choose to commit tax fraud or welfare fraud (the amount we recover from going after them pales to what we loose every year)? Who wants to see their tax dollars go to any govt. program at this point considering that so few (if any)govt programs have ACTUALLY WORKED?!

Both sides (Dems & Reps) are not addressing the real root causes of the problem. The problem starts with the COST of services, medicines, and tests. If you brought the COST of colonoscopies, OB-GYN exams, vaccines, etc down to something that people could rationally justify in their own minds as “fair” there would be less need for insurance. The pendulum would then swing from “How do we insure EVERYONE” to “How to we insure those who truly cannot afford.”.

Does anyone remember the housing bubble that hit us over the last 12 months??? What happened? COSTS of housing out paced the real income abilty of people to pay for housing. The reasons for the out pacing might be different but we are faced with the same fundamental problem. COSTS of medical services are increasing faster that real income. Insurance only MAGNIFIES the problem by adding an additional layer of COST to the equation.

Neither party is trying to address the fundamental issue. In the end regardless of which side “wins” we will be left with a terrible mess… I wish someone in Washington who was not motivated by political gain or in the back pocket of a lobbyist would stand up and… oh wait a minute… I forgot… in order to get to Washington you have to either 1) Be motivated by political gain OR 2) Get into the pocket of a… ummmm… what do you call them… oh.. umm.. OH YEAH… Get into the pocket of a LOBBYIST!

I hope everyone does realize that there is the possibilty that this bill could make it through to law with so many amendments that it actually does do more harm than good… As remote as it might be the mere fact that it will now be debated and is subject to amendments before being voted into law means that the absolute worst could happen.

I do apologize but year after year they reort on govt. waste here in MA. We are officially at $0.46 of ever dollar spent is govt. waste… this is absolutely awful! I doubt the % of waste at the federal level is less.

The real shameful part to all of this is that if we the people REALLY wanted to make a difference we would hold EVERYONE in govt accountable for wasteful spending. And wasteful spending does not mean “wars”. It means if you are going to have a war don’t let private contractors triple bill you for services rendered. Oddly enough if we attacked and completely eliminated wasteful spending you could have your wars and healthcare reform too… think about it…

Brett,

Last I heard, the public option would be available to less tham 10% of the population and have an artificially inflated price. I say pull the plug on this garbage. We just aren’t ready to address this issue in a serious way (yet). Maybe in another 15 years.

To those unhappy with the Catholic bishops…

Please realize there is a difference between Catholic faith and the human institutions surrounding this faith.

“To those unhappy with the Catholic bishops…

Please realize there is a difference between Catholic faith and the human institutions surrounding this faith.”
Posted by Cory

Well put. No human institution is without its deficiencies; no matter how ideal its cause.

Am I the only right leaning person who listens to On Point and NPR. Going thru posts is pretty ridiculous………Great plan by the woman in Beijing who thinks the way to get health care reform is first to put Bush in jail……….And, might as well throw the Catholic Church under the bus while your at it.

It is not a very good plan and seems too bloated with gov. regulations and gov. workers so it will fail.

On the issue of government waste, I think there is a huge bias toward waste across the board. It might not be like the Karzai government with medium-size tax-free fork-overs for the dishonest and large-size taxable forkovers for the honest, but we like waste.
Consider the size of our cars, the size of our houses, the size of our flat-screen TV’s.
Consider the persistence of health insurance industry, even though the care in the US is just woeful. Would we want the paper-pushers, as Obama called them in June — from the clerks at the various doctor’s offices who “handle” insurance to the insurers and their legions, would we want them unemployed? Would we want them a mere boutique group to cover vanity procedures and “extra” mammograms and such? No, no. We can’t stand for any more unemployment. Obama says they could retrain as nurse practitioners or primary care physicians — which we need. Are we doing that? No.
Waste at the state level? There are unions and such. Any job on the line is bled for, wept for, marched for. The work I do for the state has been at the same rate of pay for the 20 years I’ve been doing it. Why? No political clout. Do I have days off, health benefits, any of that? No. But I am an awfully good deal. If there were more of me, there would be fewer of a certain kind of job with benefits, so it’s not likely to happen, I suppose.
The way to avoid government waste is not to turn and have instead private waste (and profit off people’s ability to get sick and fear thereof). The way to transparent and efficient government is probably through less private money financing elections, more watchdog groups (See the National Priorities Project for one on the web), better “journalism,” better laws. Less opinion, more fact.

Brett,
Your post makes a good case as to the variations of polls, but the Nat’l debt clock tells it like it is.