Finally a show about these Merc’s, I’m curious how deep Onpoint with go. Maybe the founder belief of fighthing a holy war against Muslims, The connection between the Bush Administration and secrect information that Mr Price was allow to have along with Black Water workers?

Or the Fact we pay these folks 3 times more to do the same job, and we pay. The Laws created for these folks or lack there of. Or the fact Black Water guards got off free from murdering Iraqi’s even when evidence,witness, and fellow testimonies were against them.. Don’t forget there involvement with using Drone attacks, 2 that were killed at the CIA base attack, along with getting caught in Pakistan claiming to be a U.S. envoy.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122444062

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osBKmF1XmNw

What these contractors mean to the U.S. and its military is that we don’t have the Troops to go to war in Iraq or Afghanistan so we waste countless billions on having a third party group to do this.

I’ll admit, all I know of Xi or Blackwater is what I’ve heard from the media… But a marriage of corporations/big business and the American military industrial complex sounds like a great idea to me! Just imagine an army with access to American military technology that is answerable to shareholders instead of elected government officials. Like conservatives tell us, there is nothing the government can do better and more efficiently than the private economy!

Jeremy Scahill is the leading authority on Blackwater. Thanks for having him on!!

Another program on Blackwater?? We’ve already heard it all before.

“Another program on Blackwater?? We’ve already heard it all before.”
Posted by Louise

@ Louise:
Oh no, that was Blackwater! This is Xe, formerly known as Blackwater—totally different topic this time.

Louise,

Wondering what topic you’d choose. The failed Obama dictatorship?

After reading the book, “Big Boy Rules”, I have become very interested in learning more about the Mercs, in particular, why our government allowed Blackwater to do whatever they please in areas such as Iraq. It seems that we should rethink the power that we have given these groups. Thank you for this topic today.

What is the explanation for prosecutors’ not heeding Judge Urbina’s warning not to use the testimony provided under guarantee of immunity?

I rather sent BLACKWATER to war than Sending an 18 year old kid to WAR. This BLACKWATER guys are more older and experience. Hey I don’t care if pay these guys hundreds thousand of dollars. Pay a regular soldier coupons,stipend or $300 a month and die broke.
I rather send Blackwater guys to do the war in terrorism
Than sending an 18 year old soldier. who just wanted to have some Money For College.

War Indeed.

I love the whole idea of Blackwater/Xi. They are just the intelligence ans muscle we need in places like Aphganistan, Iraq, Pakistan, etc, (the whole middleast). Send them into Yemin!!! If they can help us get done in the middleeast faster than the military can do it, I’m all for it. Just get it DONE!!!!!

The next stage of development for these mercenary operations — if indeed it’s not already taking place — is for them to undertake ‘operations’ on behalf of private interests, i.e., corporations. This is the rise of 21st century feudalism and represents a profound threat to democracy.

It is scary to say the least. We are allowing an independent contractor to a mass a military machine that could possibly overthrow the U.S. military within our own country. They own everything about our military; it’s strengths & it’s weaknesses. If a single person with this much wealthy & power decides that he really can run this country better than we the people, what will we do? The U.S. military is already spread around the world. How could we ever mobilize to counter such home grown aggression? Are we that naive to think that these types of people only exist in 3rd world countries? Wake up America!!!!

Please address the issues of long term health care and insurance for the hired hands.

http://www.propublica.org/series/disposable-army

When will we have a real comparison of the long term costs and profits made by private businesses?

We have lost the long term benefits of training and education of the nation’s soldiers. We have failed to mobilize as a country to support our nation’s wars both in terms of blood (draft) and treasure (taxes).

Derek, I believe the private armies already do quite a lot of corporate work especially in the energy sector. (Nigeria comes to mind.)

Perhaps your guests could comment on the connections between Robert Gates, the CIA, The Family (a Right-Wing Christian secretive organization founded by the father of Eric Prince, CEO of Blackwater/Xe).

My question is, why did these guys leave the employ of the military and the C.I.A. in the first place only to be hired privately? I would suggest, as most things are, it’s all about the money. It’s the old penny wise, pound foolish routine- we don’t pay them what they’re worth, then we contract more money than that to get their services back!

American Soldiers are for Real War.

But the war in terrorism is not a front line war. Terrorism is a war of Attrition. We Spent Billions of dollars every Month in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I rather spent and sent Blackwater to fight Terrorrism than sending an 18 year old kid to fight a war that is unwinnible thru the front line.

Yes to free a nation we need soldiers but to fight terrorism we don’t need soldiers we need mercenaries or former soldiers to fight terrorism

Outsourcing began in earnest to cut the defense budget. While these contractors make a lot of money in salary, the US Government is not responsible for them in the same ways are they are for military personnel. It started with people NOT in forward areas, and evolved to the mess that it is today.

But, it is more than financial. It is also about responsibility and accountability. They can ask these contractors to do things that the US military would NOT be allowed to do, and have them fall into a gray area. Given the way that the Bush Administration thought, this was a big plus for using them.

It’s a very effective use of our resources to use companies like Xe etc….It is too expensive to use U.S. military personnel and it takes too many people to support a guy in the field.

It ought to be painfully clear to everyone that any scheme proposed and endorsed by Dick Cheney is going to be the worst possible course of action for the United State and ultimately bad for both our image abroad and our pocketbooks.

Did President Bush read Machiavelli’s THE PRINCE while at Yale? Had he read it, he’d know not to use mercenaries to fight a war. In fact, he violated almost all of Machiavelli’s rules except one: The use of preemptive strikes.

The country has concern about right wing militia groups, to the degree that we have law inforcement groups investigating them. Yet here we have a Large army on our shores with no concern. Main question – to whom do the members of Blackwater owe their aleigence to, America or the corporation Blackwater?

One of the previous callers hit the nail on the head. These companies have become a necessity because it’s not possible to field enough soldiers for these operations without a draft. So it’s a win-win for the politicians and ultra-big business: the politicians are able to push their agenda without the backlash that would result from conscription, and the businesses that are picking up the slack are raking in billions. Meanwhile, it’s ALL funded by public dollars. Another caller asked what’s wrong with former military personnel wanting to use their skills to make 3 or 4 times their military salary. What’s wrong with that is that they’re still getting paid with tax dollars!!

I think it’s pretty interesting that in general, Progresives want a smaller military and smaller DOD budget. Now we have a small military, and Blackwatter is the result. Ahhh… yet another example of unintended consequences.

Tom,

One major agreed upon theory on the fall of the Roman Empire is that Rome stopped using citizens in the army and relied on foreigners (like the Gauls and Visigoths). It seems like we are headed in this direction with contractors. The next step (and probably happening now) is that non-U.S. citizens will be doing our heavy lifting and learning how to do the heavy lifting.

While I personally abhor our intervention in Iraq (which was started by the oxymoron “military intelligence”) and think that Afghanistan is strange for the US having failed to find Osama Ben Laden in more than a decade (intelligence?), I think if we commit to the horrors of war, we – with all our military flaws – should fight the war. We do not want to become the fallen Rome.

Barlow

I have three sons in the military. All the points by the guests have been well taken, however, one major sticking point has not been addressed: most military jobs do not transfer over to civilian jobs. One son has re enlisted in order to maintain his employment because the civilian economy caused his civilian employment opportunities to disappear. Another son cannot get a job in the medical field with his training as a combat medic because his military training is not recognized by the state. 38 states do not recognize military medical training.
Why wouldn’t an ex-military person need to hire on with Blackwater or other such contractors? Their training simply does not translate to the civilian sector.

One problem with use of contractors is it blurs the cost of these wars. A few weeks ago, we had all these arguments over a surge of 30 or 50 thousand troops. Given there’s at least as many contractors, maybe we should have been arguing about an additional 60 to 100 thousand. Similarly, I wonder if when people talk about the dollar cost of this war, they include how all these contractors will be paid for.

JG McLaren obviously attended the “Larry the Cable Guy” institute of international affairs. “Git ‘er done” indeed!

With an all volunteer army we need this? What is the unemployment rate in america? so people sit here an receive money from the government but are afraid to fight for it. Maybe We should look at ourselves sitting the couch before we look at blackwater!!

Since the 70’s the mantra of certain politicians was privatization would save us money. I’m having problem understanding how we save money long term when we pay these private contractors.

The private contractors will continue to find ways to increase their contracts and money.

What is the answer to the question of “on the batttlefield if the guy next to me is making 3X what I’m making why should I try as hard?”.

We need to begin to wean ourselves from all of these private contractors. Give the work back to the military.

The bigger big pic is, the US has the greatest military investment bigger than all other countries combined. Sustaining it… evolving it has led to creation of a culture that supports wars of choice and for profit. We’ve allowed the creation of a Frankenstien we cannot control.

Take it to it’s extreme: If these contractors can be hired by foreign governments, could they then be asked to operate within or against the US? Where is their allegiance? What is the limit?

what about losing our highly trained military people to Blackwater for the big dollars? Is this why we are short on highly trained military personel?

If I were “king” I’d deport Prince to the Island of Lost Boys. There, he could play war all day long and cozy up with his Christian brothers at night. Talk about living in a fantasy world! You can call this ugly business by any name and it still spells “murder for profit”. Shudder……

David,

I think progressives want a smaller military through less involvement and intervention around the world. Not replacing our military with expensive mercenaries. Are you aware that we outspend China 100-1 on our military? Talk about government waste.

Ed Dumas

Maybe Americans don’t believe in these two wars.

Go fight yourself if you’re a believer.

What about the end of the war. If we continue to cherry pick the best of spec ops/spec war/spec forces…Then what happens when the war ends? What are there for post war benefits? What is the military left with? These guys will not be asked to come back and serve out their remaining years to get their military retirement benefits…

Ex Navy Spec Ops (EOD)

What if a group from Blackwater are hired by a corporation, and that corporation decides it is best to eliminate their competition in a country, wipe out the top management of a competitor, could that be done? There is no end of the movement of a private army who works for the higher bidder. This group could drag the US into a situation or war on their own!

Is a no-bid contract dangerously close to violating our “taxation without representation” principle? I can understand some emergency contracts flowing out the door in a crisis. But ongoing no-bid contracts? If there is no bidding process, are we getting representation?

There are larger and even more dangerous implications than mentioned on the program. The use of these mercenaries means an administration, with the acquiescence of the congress, can start a war with the assurance a draft is not necessary because the contracters are there to do all kinds work the armed services used to do . The administration, once again with the acquiescence of the congress, can then lie to the people about the necessity of the war just as Bush and Cheney and Colin Powel did regarding the Iraq war. Functionally, with this strategy the Administration and the industries that lie behind it, including the military, can run the war, having paid off the people by not requiring the draft. This system indicates however more clearly the American administrations and the Congress are separated from the people — how they can run a “private war” making use of the American military and the support of the contractors. Meanwhile, the people pay for the war at greater financial price than they would have as the price for not having a draft. Such as system is built on lies. It is undemocratic and immoral. It should be exposed and relinquished immediately if Americans are to continue bragging about their great democratic insitutions.

I am a product of the 60’s, was drafted and proud to have served my country. It is now my belief that it would be a very positive move to bring back the draft. Let the American people realize we are fighting two wars, get rid of the “private” armies, support our country. This fighting of two wars with “no pain” in the home front is bull. We should have to sacrifice as are our youth in the armed forces. I really question if we would be in Iraq if we had a draft.

Why don’t the creep Erik Prince and the carp Bin Laden meet face to face to fight their religious war since there are no difference between the two of them. Whatever they do, leave us the common people alone.

The people planned the destruction of the World Trade Center buildings (and, amazingly, the whole plan actually worked!!) are kicking up their heels in delight at the vast unexpected consequences of that one act. Their one destructive act could turn out to be the spark for the destruction of the American empire, as we waste our money and whatever standing we may have had in the world on attacking, attacking, attacking. In using cannons to kill gnats we magnify the importance of the gnats. Blackwater and people like Eric Prince, with his Crusader mentality, are carrying the WTC planners’ message: The U.S. is out to destroy other countries, other peoples, other religions.

I’m too late for this show, but someone should tell Jeremy that the phrase he keeps using, “hold to task” is a meaningless chimera of two phrases, “hold to account” or, “taken to task”. The context in which he was using it suggests, “hold to account”, as more appropriate. Please tell him before his next interview situation.

Some great posts. Particularly by Nancy who implies (my words not hers) that the terrorists of the World Trade Center could not have dreamed at how successful they were going to be. Locked us into two wars, damaged our reputation (to put it mildly), helped make all air travel a hassle and are costing us hundreds of billions for who knows how long.

This Blackwater issue is a very serious issue. Because Blackwater is so entangled in the Iraq and Afghanistan issue, These wars will never end. Erik Prince crazy ideals has brought back the age of Empires where companies could declare wars in pursuit of profit. Blackwater is the Modern East India Company.

Previous comment interesting:

http://www.propublica.org/series/disposable-army

If all the money spent on contractors went to American people, they would spend most of it here in America.

Can people from countries that do not have a vested interest in the success of our troops and foreign policy do as well as Americans anyway?

Even if you don’t agree with the contractor concept, you could ask: Would the recession have been so deep if we had hired more of our own people?

Previous comment interesting:

http://www.propublica.org/series/disposable-army

If all the money spent on contractors went to American people, they would spend most of it here in America.

Can people from countries that do not have a vested interest in the success of our troops and foreign policy do as well as Americans anyway?

Even if you don’t agree with the contractor concept, you could ask: Would the recession have been so deep if we had hired more of our own people?

Previous comment interesting:

http://www.propublica.org/series/disposable-army

If all the money spent on contractors went to American people, they would spend most of it here in America.

Can people from countries that do not have a vested interest in the success of our troops and foreign policy do as well as Americans anyway?

Even if you don’t agree with the war, and contractor concept, you could ask: Would the recession have been so deep if we had hired more of our own people?

Sorry about the duplicates

I’m a former Navy SEAL with many comrades in arms currently serving in the military and with Xe (formerly Blackwater). While I appreciate and share some of the concerns expressed here, I find most of them ill-informed and mis-directed, particularly those of Tom’s guests who obviously had a “nefarious” agenda with their books and wrote them only to justify their bias. I think they make some excellent points and I appreciate their desire to draw attention to the difficulties of the subject, but am disappointed they were not more academic in their approach.

As most of us sit in the comfort of our warm US homes, these individuals risk their lives in some of the most abhorrent locations on the earth at the behest and employment of the government (not under their own cognition). Special forces, CIA and contracted security (mercs as they are called) have been in use by every president and congress, Democratic and Republican, as well as nearly every developed nation (I have fought against many Russian and Syrian mercs in South America). To say they are are creation of Bush is childish (Obama is using them even more than Bush). To focus ire on Eric Prince is ignorant of the facts. The Congress and the Presidents preceding Bush have set the precedent and created an environment which have allowed entrepreneurs like Prince to create his insitution.

Let us turn the spotlight on our elected leaders and the law of our country if we are to establish our conduct overseas. No country has ever exercised their power in full transparency (i.e. with full accountability to the entire legislature) and it is unlikely any ever will. Unfortunately, the world is gray, and you will never understand that concept until you have spent your years in every god-forsaken corner of it like I have.

The Flying Tigers were hired guns too…if you have a war, you need hired guns to do certain jobs quickly.

What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive…

Blackwater/Xe: a highly-paid “bargain” quasi-military fighting a never-ending war against a quasi-enemy force (not soldiers but combatants) under quasi-supervision (black ops independence) enjoying a complex layering of supposed regulation that actually functions as a baffling shield of immunity….what a brilliant way to circumvent pesky laws and treaties and simultaneously coerce the gratitude of citizens who are being forced to fund the secret mischief of these “patriotic” fortune-seekers!

I feel like a *sane* version of Glenn Beck, “I want my America back!”

Thanks so much, Tom for having Jeremy Scahill on the program!

I tried to call in always busy – with what I hope are productive and constructive comments.

1) I heard over and over again that the Blackwater employees have great and valuable skills because of 10s of years in armed forces or intelligence. Who do you think paid for that training? You and I did – because we respect our troops and want them to have the best training. So Blackwater can benefit by hiring them (no training needed) – and pay them 3-4 X their previous salary. Why not retain these highly trained individuals within the military chain of command with pay raises or bonuses?

2) If congressional staffers are banned from lobbying for a period of time after ending their service why are there no such restriction on military personnel – in this case, like the lobbyists, the limitation would be solely on pseudo-military/mercenary/intelligence service. Employment in any other field would be just fine – as it is for former congress employees.

3) Id favor increasing all military salaries to boost the numbers of active duty personnel. With 10% unemployment we would have plenty of well qualified applicants. Even if they started at $50K we would save five times that amount if we didn’t hire Blackwater to do the same job.

Interesting discussion and happy that I had a chance to contribute.

Many alternate scenarios regarding private armies have been discussed here including the issue of benefits for returning contractors.

Assuming for a moment that the Forever War On Terror comes to an end due to the bankruptcy it has caused for the US, what happens to the hired killers when they return to the homeland?

We’ve already seen the use of Blackwater patrolling the streets of New Orleans after Katrina. And the superb television drama called “Jericho” (available on video) shows how these corporate hit men would be used to quell disturbances at the whim of either the government or corporate interests or a combination of both.

Jeremy Scahill also does direct reporting to Democracy Now, an independent daily news program. That program this week had a feature on American racist militias.

If these two scenarios come together, I hope the readers here see what sort of Golem has been created so that we as a people can have war by remote control.

The use of Blackwater or Xi is should be stopped.
It seems to me they are not bound by any rules or regulations that our military is.

With all the screw ups attributed to this company why are they still on the payroll?

My great uncle was a cook in army during WW2.
He received a Bronze Star for saving the lives of member’s of his platoon and others during the battle of the Bulge.
This man had never fired a shot in the war until this moment. Would a private contractor have done the same?

What seems to be consistently overlooked is that Terrorism is an asymmetrical type of conflict. Inconsistent with past experience, asymmetrical conflicts cannot be assaulted with a symmetrical response.

Similarly, the U.S. serviceman signs up for a static time, 3-4 years. It becomes quite difficult, even untenable to expect that extent and level of experience to be effectively used in these types of conflicts.

Would we characterize the Middle Eastern conflict as a battle for power and resources, or some morally grounded initiative? Having stated this, American’s do not necessarily want to know the truth, were that to come to the surface, the consequences would very likely be unpalatable. Therefore, it seems incongruent to assert there is some moral issue with using these forces, yet consistently remain indifferent to the circumstances, which places us in the region.

Continuing to believe we have some sort of human interest motivation in Afghanistan and Iraq remains as ludicrous as sailing across the Atlantic to catch Osama Bin Laden, then switch to an all out assault on Iraq before we complete the initial objective.

The ultimate point behind the usefulness of these mercenary organizations is that they save American military lives, furthermore, they remove any accountability from those who employ them. Since we are not really interested in the truth as it pertains to our presence in foreign places full of exploitable resources, we cannot prend to be interested in how the distasteful tasks are completed.

The privatization of the military is part of the whole extreme capitalist ideological “dream”. Just as businessmen and right wing ideologues using labels like “Objectivist” or “Libertarian” (when they are anything but) have been talking about for years… yet they are using our tax money because the privatized market isn’t stable and needs taxes to back it up.

We have been through all of this before. 130 years ago we had private fire stations and people only could have the fire put out in their home if they paid a fee.

The private militaries are also pretty much always made up of right-wing paramilitaries and “soldiers of fortune”. If this were really fair then we would also have left-wing or liberal (social democratic) military organizations similar to the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, made up of American volunteers to help deal with problems in other countries that have military and social solutions that nobody else is bothering to try to fix.

Speaking of Flying Tigers by Wilson

Yes majority of them were Volunteers. it is a long story but they were the best figheters during WW2 in Asia. Is money really important if we paid mercenaries
$100,000 a year than saving hundreds of young 18 year old kids from getting killed. All I read is money money and NO concern for very young soldiers in the USAF.

Yes we paid mercenaries big bucks but their jobs are more dangerous than a regular soldiers because they can’t call air support,artillery etc etc.

If we our troops back send the merceneries in Iraq and Afghanistan. These mercenaries know that they are getting paid to be killed compared to an 18 year old who signed up for the military to get some money to pay for his/her college tuition fees. In fact these kids WILL still GET PAID BY US government even if they don’t go to war. Save these young kids Now and stop this money thing ideology.

A Filipino-American Mercenary was killed in Baghdad in the early years of the war in Iraq. He and other Mercenaries were ambush and killed. There bodies were hang on a bridge in Baghdad and I think the bodies were burned on live tv. No one ever protested on that day when those mercenaries were killed. Because they are just mercenaries. These mercenaries has been on tv news for the past years and only know we are recognizing or bad mouthing these people. 60 minutes made a very interesting story about mercenaries. comparing soldiers and mercenaries.
it was an old episode of 60 mins but I think you can search that episode on You Tube.

“The privatization of the military is part of the whole extreme capitalist ideological “dream”. Just as businessmen and right wing ideologues using labels like “Objectivist” or “Libertarian” (when they are anything but) have been talking about for years… yet they are using our tax money because the privatized market isn’t stable and needs taxes to back it up.”
-Liberal/Warrior

You’ve hit the nail on the head. The Blackwater (Xe)company has been quite a money maker for Erik Prince. The privatization of the military has been going on for a long time and was greatly encreased by old man Cheney (we all know that story). Our tax dollars train their workers and give them experience, and our tax dollars provide insurance for them and their companies ($100,000 per year, per employee, on average), all of this while their CEO’s get exceedingly rich! How much do we want to continue subsidize private contractors on this level?

Private military contractors have very little acountability [none], and continue to get embroiled in scandals and corruption, yet they suffer no loss of business deals with our government.

Blackwater continues to work directly with the CIA; they were supposed to have been removed from highly sensitive and critical inner workings of intelligence- gathering, but the recent bombing of the CIA agents and Blackwater employeess indicates they are still in the thick of it and doing a sloppy, unprofessional job. The suicide bomber who killed them was working both sides and was not properly vetted. CIA operatives and Blackwater “security” were so desperate to get inside information, they neglected a thorough check of the guy. Again, our tax dollars are paying for this tragedy. Our tax dollars–not to mention our reputation–are paying for the other Blackwater blunders, as well, through investigations, trials, loss of life, national embarrassment, strained relations with foreign countries, etc.

If we are going to have portions of our military function by utilizing private contrators, then they need to be accountable to the same standards of oversight and accountability as our military. There will be no cost increase on taxpayers’ part (we’re already paying for their training, insurance and mistakes); in fact, there may be a decrease in cost, as private contractors would have to become better at their jobs while accepting accountability and supervision.

In defense of private contractors, I hear the same false arguments I hear when someone criticizes US involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan, etc.: the defenders go directly to some diatribe about criticisms being unpatriotic and ungratefully critical of the “soldiers” [employees] as individuals. I don’t blame someone for wanting to be an employee of some company like Blackwater, or even for wanting to make a lot more money in their positions than they did while in the military. I also can’t fault them for going into private contracting because they can’t find well-paying jobs in conventional employment. I can fault the unsavory practices of their companies, and I can fault our government for rewarding them with high-paying contracts while setting few standards of accountability.

Maybe the better answer is being truthful about the cost and blood to start a war, instead of acting as if it is not costing us anything, if it cost 1 million a soilder a year to be in afganstain, than imagine the inflated price that these merc’s are charging.

If you want such folks to reduce U.S. troop lives than withdrawing with give you a far better number of lives saved.

if these merc’s save 100 U.S. troops and the 100k salary is justified, than why not apply the logic to the 43k folks who die from lack of health care?

Bottom line these people join blackwater is for more money and less accountability and profit from war and death and have a incentitive to keep it that way..

This is amazing how the American taxpayers have become hostages to this moneymaking business of war. And we keep electing officials to fuel this war business.
I am outraged and every single taxpayer should be!

Interesting website. AIG was a major insurer of companies like Blackwater Xe. which has disputed many claims of injured contractors from foreign countries. This could point to how the war has been a contributor to the economic down turn.

http://www.propublica.org/special/civilian-contractors-by-the-numbers-416

..so, how’s that Hope and Change goin’…?

Yes Brett, I agree with you… I mean, I still support the troops whether they are part of the national military or private contractors, as _people_ and as soldiers, and as individuals, and I have no allusions that we have any hope of peace with religious extremists… but when it comes to the “privatize everything” ideology, and the reliance on corporate welfare, and the bad practices of these corporations like Blackwater or Bechtel (or even Custer Battles… I wonder what they have been up to?) I think it would be unpatriotic NOT to complain.

And the only liberal or left leaning militia’s I can think of have been The Abraham Lincoln Brigade (which the Communist Party tried to use for propaganda purposes, sadly), the Second Maine Militia, and maybe the Peace Corps and some well-meaning UN observers … but the latter two groups can’t use their weapons while the conservative military contractors can shoot anything and anyone they want and get to act like cowboys and Indians. It’s like people think it’s impossible to have an enlightened military so we might as well have the most cynical, money-oriented people possible on the front lines. But those types of people aren’t the ones who will solve social problems. We need more decent military people with a better perspective. Yeah they may get killed in the end but that’s their choice. That’s the whole idea behind the word “volunteer”.

Whats funny is that when you solve the social problems, the money starts to really roll in, because people have a decent education and they have HOPE. Why can’t we try education and hope for a change? Lets get rid of the religious nuts, the gangsters, the dictators (right or supposedly left wing) and the pirates… that’s what I say anyway.

The more unstable these wars get, the more contractors are hired. What incentive do these contractors have to improve the situation? What incentive do they have to maintain the status quo?

This is ridiculous. Why don’t we pay the military well enough to keep these supposedly great people. It must be cheaper to pay the soldiers directly than use this corporate formula.

“Let’s get rid of the religious nuts….”

..and we could start with islamo-fascists…every war comes to an end when one side comes to the realization that the death and the destruction are no longer worth it…my only frustration is that the military and Blackwater haven’t done a better job to wrap this thing up.

Blackwater is not Dead, or Buried
subtitle: the ongoing use of the ruthless, mercenary army in america’s foreign wars questioned by investigative journalist, author

In the first of a three-part series, the Islamic Post examines the work of award-winning investigative journalist, Jeremy Scahill, author of Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army, and specifically, a report published on November 7 in The Nation entitled, “Why Is Obama Still Using Blackwater?”

Blackwater’s Contract Extended
Mr Scahill has been compiling research on Blackwater Worldwide, now known as Xe, since the mercenary group was contracted by the US Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) during the Hurricane Katrina aftermath in 2005.
As recently as August of this year, Mr Scahill penned that the U.S. State Department had “extended Blackwater’s contract in Iraq, increasing it to $20 million.” Admittedly, the State Department has continued to contract with an Xe subsidiary to provide security for U.S. diplomats in Iraq even as the company is facing two major lawsuits in US courts. Even after announcing in May that the Blackwater contract would not be renewed, the State Department then contradictorily stated that the contract was scheduled to run through September 3, telling Scahill, “they are still there, but we are transitioning them out.”
One of the cases concerns Iraqis who are suing Blackwater for a massacre of civilians that took place at Nisour Square in the Mansour District of the Iraqi Capital in 2007. The details of the savage carnage are too horrific to repeat here, yet to ignore the butchery would be affording an advantage to the wave of racist extremists that has again risen in America. The public should be warned against those who would like nothing better than to provoke more of the same senseless bloodshed here on American soil as what was evidenced with the atrocities against African Americans and poor people after Hurricane Katrina.
Scahill notes that Jeremy Ridgeway, a Blackwater felon, admitted in sworn testimony, “there was no attempt to provide reasonable warning” to Iraqi civilians and that, he and the other Blackwater operatives open fired “with automatic weapons and grenade launchers on unarmed civilians.” Jeremy Ridgeway later pled guilty to one count of manslaughter, and five other Blackwater guards have been indicted on manslaughter and other charges.
Earlier this year other former Blackwater employees came forth, in a second case with sworn statements which were filed in federal court, alleging the company’s owner Erik Prince views “himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe,” and that his men went out “night-hunting” in Iraq on a daily basis randomly killing civilians.

Renewed ‘Indefinitely’
As recently as November 7, Mr Scahill writes shockingly that, “two years to the day after the Nisour Square massacre, Blackwater remains in Iraq armed and dangerous. The Obama administration recently extended the company’s contract there indefinitely.”
Mr Scahill then asks the U.S. President to explain why Blackwater is permitted to remain on the ground in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere “representing the United States in these countries.” Enough damage has been done to this country’s reputation, through the previous administration’s utilization of Blackwater for nefarious activities, as will be examined in a follow-up to this article.
Since the inception of the Islamic Post its founder and staff have worked diligently to unravel and expose a very sinister element in American society obsessed with a diabolical desire to incite a “New Crusade.” Former President Bush when describing his “War on Terror” made what many thought to be a mindless statement when he referred to his war as a Crusade. What many did not realize is that he was actually projecting the mindset of a very evil element that if left unabated would lead to the destruction of America and the world. The mindset of this fanatical cell, whose only ambition is to persuade fervent but naive Americans into believing that it is their patriotic duty to eliminate Muslims, is in direct opposition to the teachings of the Beloved Jesus born of the Chaste Mary.

We fuss about these blackwater mercs making 100k, yet! we never complain about the 237 members of Congress who are millionaires and 7 who are worth $100 million plus.
The 100k merc is out their hopefully protecting our country, even if it is for money, while the other crowd is out there screwing up our country for money and even worse for power.
Sounds like they are two of a kind?

Stop aggressive wars and you will not need mercenaries. If enemy tanks start rolling through Manhattan patriots will rise and enlist in the regular army. This country does not need them. Period.

This “pre-recorded” broadcast included an anti-armed contractor advocacy author, speaking to an anti-armed contractor professor/author, moderated by a sympathetic broadcaster, and no opposing viewpoints from among the callers. Perhaps the “On Point” show can contract-out for some actual balanced journalism.

If it is allowed in this forum, there is an alternate viewpoint below worth considering.

“Contractors: The New Element of Military Force Structure” by Mark Cancian (Parameters; Autumn 2008)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBR/is_3_38/ai_n31591054/

See also: IPOA – International Peace Operations Association

Does anyone else besides me remember how the French were shamed into leaving Vietnam? Their army barely maintained a second rate status even as the Foreign Legion enjoyed an ever increasing monetary investment and autonomy sanctioned by their nationalistic political allies. The Legion’s business model was almost a twin of Blackwater. They hired anyone they wished, including fugitive Nazi’s and the like. They had access to sensitive National Security information but weren’t required to divulge their own intelligence. And they KICKED BUTT! The biggest difference is that Blackwater is a private company which means: They’re free to hire Taliban, Al Quaida, Communists etc., they can be hired or even bought out by our enemies. If that were to happen the new owners would most certainly negotiate for and acquire sensitive national intelligence and personal ID info of employees. There currently is not one thing in place that would keep Erik Prince (of darkness) from selling out America. That is exactly the kind of Christian Crusader that he is. The money-changer at the temple type.

Joan, you sound like the poster child for Osama bin Laden. I do not agree with the killing of innocent people by blackwater, no more than I can agree with the killing of thousands by radical Islamic terrorist.
Your comment”..he was actually projecting the mindset of a very evil element that if left unabated would lead to the destruction of America and the world” I hope includes the mindset of Islamic Imperialialism also. You should read, “Islamic Imperialism a History” by Efraim Karsh. It is the patriotic duty of Muslims to eliminate us infidels who believe in Jesus as the Son of God.
“I was ordered to fight all men until they say”There is no god but Allah.” Muhammand
“I shall cross this sea to their islands to pursue them until there remains no one on the face of the earth who does not acknowledge Allah.” Saladin
“I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah and his prophet Muhammand.” Osama bin Laden
This belief is being carried out all across the world as we speak. Who has carried out the majority of senseless bloodshed,savage carnage and atrocities you speak about over the pass decades? The Pope, I believe has apologized for the Crusades, I have not heard very many Muslim leaders doing the same. We should not judge our own if we are not going to also judge the others.
I would love to see a world void of wars, but that will never happen.

Why do people give so much credit to Jeremy Scahill? I just listened to him grind his axe on this show repeating stuff he read in newspapers and then recreating what happened to meet his agenda driven “opinion.” When did he (Scahill) work for Blackwater? How long did he spend in the military. Where exactly does he get all his expertise? And when he gets people killed by generating frenzy with his hate for this company will he be held accountable? It appears he is the little boy left on the playground that wasn’t picked to play on either team so now he’s mad.

david,

It seems you have no problem with wasteful spending as long as it is killing muslims, or its what you like.

As your comparison of politicians and the Mercs, you miss the fact these politicians can be voted out, can be prosecuted, though tough can be held accountable yet these merc’s do not.

You get the same defense from a corrupt politican you would a corrupt mercenary, you know defending the country, and they became what they are because there patriotic.

It Seems for someone that constantly comes on claiming support of the constitution, and a libertarian you seem authoritarian and easiey able to throw out such view when it suits you.

The Hiring of Black-water during Hurricane K. should sound off alarm bells. Also it seem your response to Joan posting is to say we need radicals to fight radicals which seems naive.

that 100k these mercs say received is taken from the tax payers, there health care,and death benefits is taken from the tax payers, yet somehow its okay with you for private contractors. So waste is fine as long as it not a politician and its a private company funded by U.S. tax payers right?

(I’ll use one of your words)

When will these contractors stop sucking off the government teet, and it seems endless.

Also this Crap about having to pay some in the military insane amounts of money to do the same jobs seems weak at best, and has not shown results for such cost since whatever value you paying is going to the company.

Also something that was not looked at is that in reality the volunteer army is not enough to keep the wars going, nor do the job in some of the posters supporting Merc’s seems to claim.

Great post as always Brett and thanks Joan and others on your insight.

Why is is not honoroble–because its for profit! Hmmm. profit, no accountability–sounds like our government, wall street and insurance companies.

Why is it immoral? Why is it dangerous? Scary? NPr avoids the truth–nobady is saying it–he Dark Lord–Prince claims he could take out a propagandizing radio station in Rwanda–fine, but what would stop him from going after peace groups, green activists, dissedents-real patriots!

An army for profit, materialism, McDonalds–you will eat his greasy hamburger lethal to your health or he will blow your teeth out the back of your brain. Hmm. Why doesn’t he take out Fox news–disseminating hate and absurdity! if he’s for profit and operates with impunity–where is his patriotism? Not for America! He worships the corporate-elite, the privileged few against you! When will they be used on American soil to oppress democracy!?

The reason the voluntary army is smal land recruiters cant recruit is because these wars are absolutely evil–immoral, unethical, and benifits nobody except the elite. That’s why they’re being accepted Tom. Our governemnt is not ours–its a rogue regime owned by the corparatocracy–to oppress us–the dead peasents.

This circumvents democracy and a free world! thats why they’re being used and we do nothing about it. Slaves! When will they come for you? profit is not complex–they are not patriots! They do not have the right to use their so-called skills! They belong in jail under maximum security.

What a joke! The war on terror is a lie! The government has been usurped. Our forefathers insist that we revolt!

I suspect that blackwater, or NPR or some agent related to propaganda showers these forums with ridiculous notions of acceptance and shallowness so that the reasonable comments exposing this abomination for what it is–undemocratic, fascist, evil–gets relegated to the bottom of a long list so that netizens give up reading before they reach the essence of truth way down here in the dregs.

akilez Blackwater or Xe are putting our solders at risk.
They do not answer to the chain of command and if they create a bad situation it’s left to the military to clean it up. How do people think it’s better to have these mercenaries fighting and running these wars is beyond me.

If one looks back into history you will find that when countries or empires for that matter start using mercenaries it is usually the beginning of the end for them. The mercenary is not bound to uphold any kind of oath or laws for that matter to the country that hires them, only to themselves.

If I’m not mistaken I think Frontline did an excellent expose on this very subject.

Reporters’ blogs, and those of Iraqi’s too, have been mentioning the loose cannon approach of these mercenaries since they first arrived in Iraq. They were behaving in Baghdad like a bunch of drunken wild west outlaws taking over a frontier town. No wonder the Iraqis want them out.

If the State Department needs security, let them train our own service personnel and pay them decently – maybe not the $1000 or more a day some mercenaries get, but pay them what they deserve for this kind of work.

The comment the professor made right at the end is key: there is simply no reason, and no precedent, for a modern state to allow the key capabilities of force in the nation to be privatized and monopolized by a private interest, putting the state in the position of paying monopoly rents for capabilities the state itself developed at the state’s expense. Simple solution: when a non-state entity has control of a key military capacity on the state’s nominal territory, the state should simply seize the asset by force, nationalize it, and draft those now practicing for profit out of the treasury special skills developed by the state itself in to compulsory service. Allow them the option to be fully free of all obligation to the state in exchange for a verifiable promise not to offer services based on state-developed capabilities for profit, either seeking rents from the state, or from other non-state actors. if they desire to use state-developed military capabilities, they can do so as officers or enlistees in the USM. Simple.

While we all might not like it we can’t ignore the fact that the US Military has killed more civilians in Iraq than all the contracting companies combined. So actually the use of contractors has reduced the number if deaths. I’ve been there…I know this for a fact. The difference is that the US Government pays cash money to shut the families up and they can’t file a lawsuit against the US Military. But while contractors are actually working under the US Government, lawyers see the fact that there is a private company name somewhere use that as an option. I think a lot of this is noise drummed up by the Scahill types stems from a true lack of knowledge on history and geopolitics. These types only understand the principles they learn in the classroom. And why is it all we hear Scahill preach about is his self reported knowledge of a company he never worked for? There are many companies like BW out there that do the same work yet he never says anything about them. Maybe Scahill should fully disclose who is behind his coverage of Blackwater so people would see his connections to a major Blackwater competitor. Funny thing is Scahill is no different than Erik Prince. He’s getting fat off the company name Blackwater. And to the lady who spoke on the show, all these companies that do this work do have professional certifications you have to complete. To work on contracts you have to pass a US Government vetting course. I said US Government..that means the standards are set by the US Government..not Blackwater or Kroll or TC or Dyn..etc. Do your research before you spew misinformation. Scahill knows this and didn’t correct you..go figure. This program reminded me of a high school debate where they conveniently forgot to invite the other side. We’ve been through this debate before about armed guards working for the US Government. In the 30’s and 40’s US Merchant Marines were pulled into the arms of the US Navy…trained to man guns and run military arms to the war effort. These men fought the Germans and the Japanese and did a hell of a job. Then when they came back the US Government took away their merchant licenses and banned many of them from their livelihoods. As a matter of fact certain congressmen today are still blocking these WWII veterans from getting the full benefits they deserve.

BJ in what capacity where you in Iraq?
If you were working for one these companies you kind of lose the objective stance, no?

It’s easy to take the statistics of an invasion and use them to support your ideology.

It’s pretty obvious that armed forces would have more civilian casualty rates than Blackwater. That does note make what Blackwater do right. This idea of these companies is repugnant to me, and as a citizen I don not want them involved in these actions. By the way while we are on the subject, how about all the screwed up electrical work done by these “professional” contracting companies, the ones that have killed our solders while taking showers. The amount of money these companies have ripped off here is beyond the pale. The work was sub-standard, period. Blackwater is the one we all think of but if you start digging you will find that a lot of these contracting companies one bids and only took the money.

Jeffe,

I expect that you’re an educated person. Therefore you know there is no such thing as a person having an “objective stance” on political matters. This is not a science project. Our desires and personal beliefs shade such things. Now if it were a science project and you were using a “objective stance” you would base such matters on factual evidence. Maybe because like almost everyone harping on this subject you don’t have access to all the facts you can feel comfortable making your assumption that Blackwater…and contractors as a whole, are the problem. In the Blackwater case in Iraq, maybe one would want to know that the major competitor to to them for contracts had an embedded mentor with the Iraqi Officials that collected what evidence there was and assisted in the investigation. Further, he lead the FBI investigators around on the ground there. I think that might make the investigation some what less “objective.” Sort of like having the Republicans investigating the Democrats. Regarding the electrical subject…I don’t know any security contractors who are contracted to do electrical work…sorry.

Eric Prince claims that all of his operatives are vetted to the highest standards and have been pulled from the ranks of highly trained military professionals. Yet, all but one of the Nisour square killers had fairly undistinguished single Marine or Army tours. The people involved in other Blackwater misdeeds seem to have been of no better quality. Blackwater over promises to land contracts then back fills them with bar bouncers, 21-25 year old former Marine grunts, small town “bubba” police officers and more often than should be the case mentally unstable and often addicted persons.

Michael you seem to be very critical of these mercs, yet you say very little about the radicals who started this mess and are intent on keeping it going. I have no love for contract killers, yet your man in Washington seems they are still needed. I followed this site for a while and my observation is that many have a almost sympathy for these terrorist, blaming the U.S. for their actions. These radicals have been around for centuries and their dislike for certain cultures is well know in history. There tactics are barbarian and savage, so how do you fight them??? I would rather take it to them than they bring it to us. Wars should be so horrific that no one would care to engage in them. If Blackwater is so bad, why has not the Congress done something about them? Maybe these terrorist have found away to bankrupt America by continuing these plots.

This was an amazing, important, and very disturbing show. Keep up the great work and keep bringing us more probing shows like this one.

David,

I followed the Merc types before 2000, there were being used in some of Africa country to settle disputes or increase certain warring lords power until the U.N. stepped in. I had three army buddies that went into black water, all for more money and were not the elite one may act as if they hire. One admitted he ran over a Iraqi women on accident while patrolling, and partly felt bad, partly bragged about getting away with it.

Were you fine with there uses and overpayment during Hurricane K. They volunteered but some how got pay 3 to 4 times more than the police, firefights, medics, and army folks who responded.

I been following Black Water for awhile and many of the such said by the guest i was aware of, You seem always to compalin about the National Debt but when we are shown how much waste paying these guys you have no problem. Also today a report came out saying that these Contractors are paying off Tailban and these radicals with the Money they get from the U.S.

How Americans Help Fund The Taliban

n November of 2009, journalist Aram Roston published a story in The Nation titled “How the US Funds the Taliban” about how U.S. military contractors are forced to pay suspected insurgents to protect American supply routes.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122563121

As for radicals the ones that attacked use were not from Afghanistan, and differently did not come from iraq, if you not aware of this the Taliban are the people who live in Afghanistan, and have much more support from the Afghanistan than the U.S. media wants to admit,Can’t have a insurgency without public support

Can you name where the terrorist who attacked us were from?

“These radicals have been around for centuries and their dislike for certain cultures is well know in history.”

They seem to work fine against the Russians when Reagan Supported them. They have been Radicals both brutal and ruthless on both sides for centuries as well,

To a afghan who loses there family members to a U.S. drone attack, bomb or bullet might think the same way about us and our culture.

“Wars should be so horrific that no one would care to engage in them.”

Or what happens when both sides refuse to find common ground and destroy and destroy until there is nothing left, or very little.

“If Blackwater is so bad, why has not the Congress done something about them? ” The same reason why Congress hasn’t done anything on other issues. “Lobbying” They tried with ACORN But it affected Black-water and Halliburton so it didn’t go to far.

I sure they will when more news about there deed gets out to the general public, (Hench the name change)

I disagree with you probably on most things but you can at least agree that having less accountability than the military is a bad thing? That either the Military does not have the forces needed to stay in both Wars and Hench needs these military contractors or it does and these contractors as stealing millions and billions from the tax payers?

I ask you this would you payer higher taxes for these wars and to keep these contractors going at the same pay or would you increase our debt to not pay higher taxs and keep things as is?

There are three parts to “the King clause” of the Constitution, Article I, section 8, clause 11: “(Only) the Congress shall have the power to: declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make ruled concerning captures on land and water”.

The “blackwater” part is specifically the phrase “letters of marque and reprisal” which gives only congress and Not the executive branch (DoD or CIA, NSA, etc.) either the authority or the funding to allow privateers (today called private contractors) to kill foreign nationals upon foreign soil.

Why is this Never mentioned?

The King clause is so called, because if this clause is not executed, the US is in effect ruled by a King.

PS I won a constitutional case with the DoD in 1969, and am not speaking whimsey.