It seems to me that transparency of information is one of the foundations of a democracy, and one of the reasons, as George Bush himself articulated, that democracy and war are incompatible.

Te health of our democracy is weak, and one indication of this is the difference between how informed our citizens are versus those in other countries. Around the world, the percepton of the Iraq war varies wildly based on the availability of accurate coverage, and this kind of censorship puts the United States is far down the list in terms of the accurate understanding on the part of the citizenry.

This kind of censorship is one of the key reasons our system enables foreign policy that is so unpopular around the world, and, in the end, so ineffective.

I am amazed at how detached these reporters seem to be. Death is a deeply personal thing. Even more so when you see a brother or a father figure die. How many reporters would fight for the right to be filming in the back seat as their parents in the front seat of the family car gets killed by a drunk driver hitting them at roughly 60 miles an hour?
A picture of “just a dead Soldier” to these neatly detached people is actually what should be looked at.

The buddy you have lived in the field with for months gets blown to pieces by an IED, and a photographer runs over for a good shot?

There is a matter of decency and more importantly RESPECT. Something that more and more the media does not seem to have any whatsoever.

One of your callers just posited the idea that the people in our country who volunteer for the military, and go fight, do so so that the rest of us won’t have to. I believe that all the people in our country share a common responsibility for our wars as citizens of our great land and therefore the images of our wars should be available to us. A commonality in sharing the burden will, perhaps if for no other reason, help us as citizens monitor our wars progress, and or lack thereof, enabling us to make the right and proper informed decisions about our wars in part based on the full truth and reality of any conflict when these are called for - as in the coming elections. Thanks

I’m a regular listener, but I just turned off the show. Jane Clayson should not have let Michael Kamber talk over the opposing view point. If I want that kind of exchange I’ll watch cable news.

I think that it is extremely disrespectful to the people who are serving and sacrificing to not be able to provide the American people with a balanced, realistic representation of the true costs of war. The decision to prevent presentation of photographic images appears to be political in nature. It is hard to see the results of war, but by hiding the true costs, the public is not allowed to make their own decisions regarding our participation in various wars. There are respectful ways of displaying reality. The measure of a democracy is the willingness to allow citizens access to information (e.g. freedom of speech) in order to facilitate decision making. If the actions of our government result in images that are deemed too distressing for citizens to even view than perhaps our involvement in these pursuits needs to be reconsidered.

War is reported much more fully in other countries, but this is expected in the Orwellian era of permanent war now so present in the US. Sure, this is highly immoral, we have destroyed a country, brought immeasurable harm to so many people yet we hardly care, but ultimately, its part of the reason we can so blithely go to war. It really doesn’t seem to cost very much. It would be more sad if it wasn’t a sure sign of a failing empire, the sooner the better. All this talk about the respecting the feelings of the family members who were killed or injured is ingenuous, if we were a more responsible people these soldiers wouldn’t have been in Iraq in the first place fighting this unjustifiable war.

I feel the comment by James Robbins that Americans “know the effects of war” is not entirely correct. The vast majority of Americans, especially those in the middle and upper classes, will probably never know a person who is killed or seriously injured in any campaign. For them it is an abstract concept of numbers. Their sibling or cousin will not be suffering from PTSD for the rest of their life, they will not have two men showing up with a “regret to inform you” letter. Most Americans do not know the effects of war.

I meant disingenuous, crocodile tears, etc,

sorry

I am an Army office who has served in Iraq. I agree that the public needs to know what is going on in this war, but that has to be balanced with a respect for the families of all serving.

My 5 year old knows about the war and before the surge started, we were in the car and heard on WBUR that there were 5 casualties in Iraq. From the backseat my son asked, “Mommy, were those your guys who died?” Needless to say, it was a tough conversation. What worries me the most is that if we are going to take pictures of the horrific injuries and deaths that I saw, the “if it bleeds, it leads” culture of the news media will make it impossible for me to watch the news with my sons. The other issue is that images on the web are there forever. Do we want families to accidentialy find horrible images of their loved ones when they do a Google search even 10 years from now?

Americans should be able to see these wars and understand what is going on to make informed decisions, but I’m not sure showing dead soldiers is the way to provide this information.

American people need to see what is going on. Not only such images need to be taken. But they also need to be published. Front and center page, major newspapers. TV news need to headline every news program with such images. I think if Americans did see the images of war and the proper time and emphasis was given to them by major media, the war would have been stopped already.
And those images do not have to be just of our soldiers dying. How about countless images of civilians dying?

But, this is my opinion. I am against any war and all wars. I think in this age of human intelligence, any conflict, can be resolved with words and diplomacy. Not a war.

I look around me and I see Americans going about their daily lives. Working, going to school, enjoying their lives, laughing, marrying, living. And I think “We are at war.” How many people aware of that fact in their daily lives? People are dying as we speak, because we are at war. Sadly, I don’t think that many.

I have lived in Russia through Chechen war and I remember a picture of Russian soldiers, 18 year old boys, their dead bodies, coming back in boxes by containers on a train. Not truck loads. Container loads - on a train. A whole train, every container, full of dead bodies.

I think if Americans saw similar images of our soldiers dying, the public outcry to stop the war would be much greater than the mild annoyance it is now.

Those images need to be front and center. They need to be given proper attention and importance that they deserve. So that we may not have an option of ignoring what is going on there now.

Yes, those images may exist and those of us who receive news not chewed out by major media and know how to find them are aware, but the majority of people in America who receive their information from major news media without questioning the source or the content, they are not aware or choose to close their eyes on it.

Thank you

come on. our gov’t and the iraqi ’s have decided to suppress photos’s. the latter came up with that idea on their own.who’s kidding who. who came up with that idea? george or dick. we have seen photo’s in the past of dover air base. now somehow our gov’t has decided its not in the american’s public interest who pay war taxes to see there brave soldiers coming home from a war. in a coffin’ maudlin or sensational.how about reality. a sesneless loss of life only to try and control the 3rd largest oil country in the world. i think not. disengaged; that’s the game plan of our gov’t. prevent outrage? 4, 140 dead and 5 x that in other causalities. there will be a silent outrage in november.

The Iraq & Afghanistan wars have been like no others to date. We live in an age of instant access to information, yet we are in the dark in some respects. We have been lead like sheep away from the real story. Those who seek the true message utilize NPR and other true news outlet the keep abreast of the issues. As some had commented during the discussion, the information is out there, if one seeks it. Maybe the bigger issue is we have all been numbed to the sheer volume of news and information that is available and have turned a blind eye to the reality that we continue to be at war.
The importance of sharing information about war with the world cannot be understated. Hiding information can only lead to ignorance and history repeating itself.

Have you ever tried to take a video camera inside a hospital? Not even into the emergency room - but just to film the people in the rooms. Not allowed. But in a war zone - you are asking for even less respect.

Yes, it IS important that the American people have a better clue about whats going on overseas. The images of the Vietnam War certainly did shed a lot of light on War. However, it also turned the American people against it’s own soldiers who were often spit upon when they returned.
Pictures and film without a larger context turned the American G.I. into men who LIKED to kill somehow. Generally speaking Absurd, but too true.

You don’t need to see a still bleeding torso to get the point across. Honestly, even those pictures cannot convey the reality of a war zone because they can never encompass the true and complete context surrounding them anyway.

I’m glad that the reporters are embedded with the troops. If anything, it forces the reporter to know the soldier better, and to understand better. Things are a lot different when you know the names of the people you “shoot to death”. As it should be. If it’s not - then there is something very very wrong.

Hello, I did try to call in. My son, Kurt Frosheiser, was killed by an IED in Baghdad November 8, 2003. Kurt volunteered to join the US Army. I could go on about his death but that is off-topic. Had there been fair and accurate reporting of the war, the new directives would not have been necessary. The human cost of war is horrific! However, the necessity of war has been proven throughout history. Perhaps in the past the media’s presentation of our military efforts were controlled by the military. While after WW II the media has progressively become skewed toward an anti-war presentation of the facts. I believe the military would not have had to put new directives in place. Its time the media war reporting pendulum swing back to the middle…fair and accurate reporting without commentary. My analogy would be: the importance of voice inflexion when saying “come on let’s go”. While the same words are being said the interpretation of the same words can be one of calm or anger, anxiety or eager anticipation. There was a film crew present when Kurt was brought to the hospital. When a death occurs so far away it is helpful for our family to have these images. That being said, fair and accurate reporting of facts without commentary is necessary. Everyone knows the human cost of war, It’s the interpretation of those costs which is in dispute. An age old question: “When is it time to stand and fight injustice?” Thank you.

If it’s disrespectful to take pictures of dead, dying, or wounded soldiers, then what do we call the people who are responsible for getting them to the place where they could be killed or wounded?

I for one do not believe that the real problem is the reaction of soldiers’ families. This administration has already demonstrated the extent of their lack of sensitivity. The true reason for the censorship is just that: censorship. Keeping the true costs of the war way, way off the radar of most Americans.

Furthermore, I found your discussion incomplete. What about the dead and wounded contractors? And what about the Iraqis who are really bearing the brunt of the violence? Why are there no images of them in the media? I submit it is the same as the above.

Please do better next time.

http://ivaw.org/ (Iraq Veterans Against the War) (site not responding)

Everyday I listened to the hearings of the Iraq Veterans Against the War. You can too. But I warn you it is painful.

The human cost is immeasurable. To the surviving veterans of wars and their families please know that my family knows what’s going on and we care and we grieve. But we don’t live with it as someone touched directly by the wars.

necessity of war has been proven throughout history

I hope I have misunderstood your comment.
But, in case I didn’t, how about learning from history to avoid mistakes made in the past and avoid human cost and sacrifice associated with all and every war?

How about evolving into human beings where war is not a necessity? Where people - humans, whatever their nationality, political views, age, soldiers, children, contractors, women, etc do not have to die in order to resolve a conflict.

On another note, if showing a death of a husband, child, sibling, a loved one on TV or seeing it in a newspaper allowed for one less person to die, I would endure such personal sacrifice, knowing that not only their life was not in vain, that they sacrificed themselves for others, but also their death was not in vain. If showing such imagery helped one more person, allowed one more person to live, such knowledge, I think, would allow families to endure the pain of seeing their death on national tv and major newspapers.

Thank you

I was unable to listen to the whole program, so maybe I missed some good points. Did anyone think to mention what photographs of dead and injured soldiers and civilians provide for the enemy? Pictures of carnage plastered on the front pages of newspapers and magazines only encourage more attacks with the goal to shock the public. I’m not suggesting the press would actively propagandize for the enemy, but they certainly read the papers and look for they’re work.

If the US is so Orwellian, I propose journalists leave the safety of the army imbeds and independently cover the conflict. There are stringers also who cover the conflict and some who have even been arrested for collaborating with the enemy.

Folks;

The Los Angeles Times has a war photograph on its front page (8/12/08). It depicts a soldier dead on the ground. Quite graphic.

Iraq you think? No. It’s a picture of the war in the former Soviet Georgia.

So much for fair and balanced reporting.

Cheers.

I would like to know what conservative commentator James Robbins has to say about the fact that President Bush heads the most secrecy-obsessed administration in our nation’s history, which prides itself on not being “reality-based” (see, for example, Ron Suskind’s “Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush,” 10/18/04, NYT Magazine). Those in charge have no interest in portraying the Iraq war accurately, because to do so would expose their “happy talk” about progress to principled debate and ridicule. In keeping with their main modus operandi (promoting ideology rather than facts, and insulating themselves from all manner of accountability), they know the value of controlling the public’s perceptions.

The sanitizing of a war is part of a larger strategy called “manufacturing consent,” a technique of social control based on the irony that a government’s own populace is potentially its greatest threat. As for why the public seems apathetic about the war, with more interest in Michael Phelps’s gold medals than the catastrophe of Iraq, the Romans had a phrase that summarized their rule: “bread and circus” (i.e., allow people to obtain daily sustenance while distracting them with entertainment so that they don’t become organized for their own self-interest). It’s clear that the Bush administration follows a long line of authoritarian–style (if not openly fascist) governments in effectively using this strategy.

Most of the U.S. populace wants an end to this war, but if their only recourse is a group of supine Democrats who have given in continuously to President Bush’s demands for extending the war, then what’s the wonder they feel apathetic?

Dear On Point,
I am writing in regards to this mornings discussion on censored war photos. Frankly, many of us out here in the country, feel that our present administration is partly behind the lack of photos and public awareness about war casualties. Aside from the News Hour, how many times do we see photos of any of our war heros? Secondly, we, as a nation, need to get our heads out of the sand and stand up and take responsibility for what our nation does at large. We, as a nation, elected this present administration, not once but twice. And the second time during the war. We watch all kinds of crime shows and violent movies and yet we cannot be bothered to see the crime and violence we are afflicting on others in the name of Democracy. Smarten up people, you elected them, now you need to take responsibility for their actions. And violent disturbing photos are only the start. Look at what we are doing. Take responsibility for who you vote into office. Hiding from the truth will not change anything. It is time to face the facts. Maybe seeing what we are actually doing will knock some sense into all of us.

“necessity of war has been proven throughout history”

As much as I hate war, I agree with this comment.
If everyone could be reasoned with and convinced about the ‘right’ way, we wouldn’t need wars; nor law enforcement nor jails nor locks on my door

“necessity of war has been proven throughout history”

Of course this is true.

For us to enjoy our way of life, we must continue to demonstrate that we can carry out a war, and that we have the capacity to generate war.

In general, it is the most warlike societies that survive and or thrive. But what is not talked about so much is that the reasons for war are always more abstract that what is commonly held to be true. We are all witness to the collapse of the WMD cover story, yet the war continues. Armies need to war. For us to enjoy our way of life, we must continue to not only demonstrate that we can carry out a war, but we must also have the dexterity to start a war and shape the perceptions that the common person has vis a vis “just war.”

Listening to this hour I got

1. A clear picture of why the military wouldn’t want these images published and I think their concerns while possibly over-stated are reasonable

2. A feeling that their concerns probably had led to an overly severe policy which came from a better safe than sorry mentality and should be lightened.

In past wars, we had, in addition to civilian photo-journalists, photographers who were members of the military. Do they still exist and if so, what are they photographing? Not to have the visual documentation is a huge loss to the public. Just think how differently we might view the Holocaust today without all the film and still footage of the Nazi camps.

This is one more symptom of an administration that is afraid of the truth and how Americans will react to it. These restrictions are a disservice to our country. How in the world are we to escape this cycle of war if our children and young adults don’t see its ugly consequences? The greatest honor we can do to our dead and wounded is to show the depth of their sacrifices.

This is my first time contributing to a blog and having read what has been written has made me more aware of differing points of view. I concur with the bread and circus view point the people in power need to keep the public distracted from what is really going happening. There will always be a war somewhere. Just as there is peace somewhere, to think that we would always have just always war or just always peace is naive. There is violence in this world just as there is peace. Don’t get me wrong, I’m going to strive for peace every time because I have free will, but I also recognize that there are others who choose violence. Will I turn the other cheek? Maybe, I don’t know for sure I’d like to think I would because I believe in fair play but they tell me the world isn’t fair. This current war in Iraq is about making sure that we have a military presence in one of the most strategic oil producing areas of the world. Period.

Just a comment on Jane:

Jane: you really need to go easy on the Voice & Articulation in the way you speak.

Its not ‘Ho-ua-hat’ its ‘W-hat’.
Its not ‘Hu-ua-ay’ its ‘W-ay’.

The over-enunciation really makes me want to barf. You wonder why people make fun of NPR (or ‘WPR’; White People Radio), and its this exactly the reason.

Relax a little…

thanks, Stefan in Montreal

“necessity of war has been proven throughout history”

Of course this is true.

With all due respect, truth and righteousness are both illusions. I am not going to get all philosophical, but those two things are strictly personal. What one person believes is true, the other may not. Same with being right and wrong.

But, as long as there are people in this world, who believe that war is a necessity, we will continue to have wars.

You can call me naive, but I believe in a world without a war. I believe that humans will evolve and live in a world where war is not a necessity. I am not saying a world without conflict. I am saying a world without war. And we don’t have to agree on this.

But we’re getting off topic.

Thank you

Please stop talking about clear pictures, people giving up their lives for whatever, the need for people to see images of people blown up or whatever, and whatever for whatever. Just knock it off. It’s cheap and it’s disingenuous and dishonest and just as dirty as the lies that got us into this in the first place. You people may have acted to prevent the war, but you didn’t act hard enough. You didn’t do what needed to be done, so please shut your mouths and your fingertips. The caller on last night’s show was absolutely correct when he said that public pictures of dead servicemen make for asymmetrical victory for the bad guys.

Just stop it already. If you want change, get active. This isn’t rocket science. Stop crying on national public radio and go to the supermarkets, where people are paying out the kazoo for corn. Or go to the “discount” clinics, where people are paying upwards of $180 for the privilege to see a doctor.

You want to talk about dead Americans? We don’t have to go to Iraq to be outraged about that. We only have to go to these message boards. This is some of the most idiotic stuff I’ve ever read. You people are dead. You should just be ashamed.

Wow, Jeff. What’s eating at you. I sense your outrage, but I am not really clear who you are mad at.

I did all the things we are supposed to do to prevent the war…voted, wrote letters, campaigned for the candidate of my choice, spoke in person to one of my senators. None of it made one bit of difference. I did not want this war to happen. But that does not mean that I do not respect the sacrifices made by our volunteer servicemen and women. The biggest sacrifice is that they are doing this in obscurity. What does our president tell us to do when the going gets tough…go shopping. He is clueless that he is the source of many of the problems that exist in this country right now.
We are weaker economically, militarily, and in our diplomatic strength than we were when he entered office. We are more vulnerable to terrorism, because the number of terrorists has grown, and their hate for the U.S. has increased because of our actions.
I am sorry you are so angry. But we went to war as a nation. We have a responsiblity, as a nation, to be aware of the actions of our country, and the price being paid by such a small number.

Maybe if we stopped focusing on the good guys and the bad guys, and started looking more clearly at the reality of the world, we could work more effectively towards peace. But that will not happen with this president.

I apologize for my post last night. I was upset about a relative’s illness and a different, difficult situation. That’s not a good excuse. People don’t deserve to be treated like jerks, no matter what the scenario. I was being a stupid jerk.

I do just hope to all Heaven and Beyond that we can get some health insurance around here. I was stupid and desperate, and continue to be. I’m sorry. I said some idiotic and mean things and I wasn’t smart. I care about my family member and I’m very, very mad that I don’t have the resources to help him.

I apologize again. The things I said were angry, and I’m just frustrated and stupid angry about my close family member’s condition.

Kudos to you Jeff for having the guts to apologize…not many people will for that momentary lapse, which all can have from time to time. I am sorry to hear about your personal situation. The state of our health care is atrocious. I hope that your family member gets the help they need.