I think the idea that Sarah Palin is ready to be President is laughable. Someone with a degree in journalism can’t name one newspaper or magazine she reads to stay informed? The Palin picks shows that McCain surely puts ‘Campaign First’

Fred, Forest Hills, NY

Hat tip to Mona Charen for being a conservative with a brain. She tows the party line to a point, but atleast realizes that there are problems with Palin. Some honesty there.

Personally, Sarah Palin scares me to death. The idea of her being a heartbeat away from the Presidency should keep people awake at night.

Listening to Palin makes my brain hurt. She stated that it’s about time that “normal joe six-pack American” is represented in the office of VP. I, for one, don’t want “normal joe six-pack American” anywhere near the White House. I know people say in the U.S. anyone can be President, but I surely hope that’s not true; let’s set the bar higher than that.

It’s important to consider the substance of Sarah Palin’s responses, rather than simply whether the ‘handlers’ have done a good job or not.

Voters need to be making decisions based on whether the candidates understand the issues facing our country, exercise good judgement, and operate with integrity. Although charming, Sarah Palin does not have the depth of expertise needed to be a breath away from the Presidency.

I second what Aaron said - the idea of Palin as VP scares me to death and DOES keep me up at night. I am thankful that Katie Couric interviewed her and that hopefully the conservative right can make the right choice.

Deena in Newton, MA

Great program once again.

Please don’t tell us she doesn’t know that she doesn’t qualify…

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity” Martin Luther King, Jr.

Mona Charen is way off base when she says that Sarah Palin simply had a case of “nerves” when answering Couric’s questions. Palin obviously has nearly no knowledge of any question put to her, and saying she’s being disingenous is being euphemistically charitable… the fact is she’s dishonest, just as McCain has been when asked about her qualifications.

Palin seems to have a charmed political life, succeeding beyond her abilities and her intelligence level. But this surely has ruined her for any further effort at nationwide political office. I can’t see her trying to run for President in 4, 12 or 20 years.

I’m neither Republican nor a McCain/Palin supporter, however I don’t think Palin’s lack of experience is of much consequence to average voters. The nation proved 4 and 8 years ago that someone with poor interviewing skills and lack of experience can be ‘elected’ president. There have been books, videos and articles spewing with “Bushisms” and Republicans love the guy! If voters can connect with Palin on a personal level, experience won’t matter as much. Remember folks saying they’d like to have a beer with Bush and that’s why they voted for him?

Ms. Parker has been getting threatening letters, per her recent column -

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-oped1001parkeroct01,0,3151779.column

The best part of this column was -
“The picture is this: Anyone who dares express an opinion that runs counter to the party line will be silenced. That doesn’t sound American to me, but Stalin would approve. Readers have every right to reject my opinion. But when we decide that a person is a traitor and should die for having an opinion different than one’s own, then we cross into territory that puts all freedoms at risk. (I hear you, Dixie Chicks.)”

Good point Terri, but the U.S.’s prospects for average americans weren’t quite as dismal when Bush was elected… maybe at least 51 percent will do the right thing next election.

Terri - While I agree with your premise, I would hope that after 8 years of Bush we would realize that we can’t have another 4 or 8 years of this. If McCain/Palin win and/or Palin becomes President I think the U.S. will surely deserve what it gets

Tom Ashbrook always makes a point of playing devil’s advocate, but sometimes things just shouldn’t be defended and don’t deserve to be defended… Sarah Palin’s ignorance shouldn’t be defended, nor should McCain’s judgement in choosing her as a running mate.

Mona Charon tried to compare Biden’s plagarism issues with Palin’s distortions about the Bridge to Nowhere. This is a ridiculous comparison.

First, Biden borrowed words without giving credit. When called out on it, he owned up and apologized.

Palin, is presenting herself as a reformer with her words. She is saying she is against pork barrel spending when her actions speak differently. And she has been called out on it repeatedly, but never owned up to the change in position, or the fact that she really did not save the American taxpayers any money. She kept it for the Alaskans.

If those difference are not apparent to Charon, than she truly is wearing rose colored glasses with blinders.

why is it sexist if someone says “that woman” but if someone says “that man” its not?

Sarah Palin is not ready to lead. She can’t even answer simple gotcha questions how is she supposed to negotiate with world leaders?

I appreciate the recent caller. I’m a bit confused why Palin’s record is so continually unexplored in the media. As someone who is running as a “change” candidate, I find her political choices and actions have actually been very cynical. For instance, say taking something like global warming or environmental impacts, Palin states she does not believe that global warming is human made, a position that makes it possible for her to actively oppose the science behind listing polar bears as “threatened” and, to this end, she has now filed suit against DOI to delist the bears. This action paves the way for oil drilling, etc, and happens to provide jobs for her husband who works in the industry, among others. Likewise she has worked against local whale populations being listed because that listing would have interferred with her second bridge to nowhere (Wassila to Anchorage). On the other hand, she has actively lobbied against fish farming on old oil derricks using the science behind environmental impacts of farm fishing and in favor of, guess what, wild fishing. Hmm. Also something that directly impacts her family business. It would seem that her daily actions are all about her best interests. And, if you don’t think her other actions, such as her alleged outrage at Republican representatives of various sorts, was self-interested then consider where she is today. She won a VP nomination for it. Now perhaps she can cancel the lobbyist she paid for to advocate for the town of Wassila. I wonder if that was the only thing he was lobbying for back then?

I feel a little sympathy for Palin. Of course she is not qualified.In my mind, her only sin is the hubris to think she is.

She was chosen by a man who has shown us continually in the past; blocking MIA/POW legislation, sidling up to Bush after the vicious attacks the Bush campaign used against the McCain family and now acquiescing to the religous right, that he does not put family first let alone country first.

McCain will do anything to be President, his VP choice should be measured with that in mind.

I am awed by Palin’s defence of the idea that she has experience. The twisting of reasoning and complete lack of logic is awesome (and not in a good way). I can see a synagogue from my house, does that make me an expert on Judaism?

I think (or at least I hope) it’s all strategy - no one could be as air-headed as Palin seems to be!

I think her strategy is to set expectations so low leading up to the debate that she can win the debate just by making a coherent sentence or two. So to effect this strategy she’s been cultivating a low-IQ image in her interviews. SNL, the Daily Show, et al, have unwittingly helped reinforce this image, all to her benefit.

I’m not joking - look at Bush - everyone thought he was stupid but he won the Presidency TWICE and to this day, even as a lame duck, he still demonstrates the power to dominate Congress and wrap them around his finger.

The Democrats are like Wile E Coyote and the Republicans are like Roadrunner - the Dem’s and their “Acme Political Machine” fall for it every time!

Hillary Clinton, according to those who now support Sarah Palin, could not claim sexist treatment because if she ran for public office, she had to take it as it came. However, those same critics cry “sexism” about Sarah Palin’s treatment. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, as the saying goes.

The lowest bar we can set for candidates is that they can parrot back key campaign talking points in media interviews and debates. Palin’s not even clearing this bar!
What we really should expect is candidates who can show us in interviews and debates that they are thoughtful people who have realistic worldviews and can apply and adapt their convictions to respond to new situations. I see no evidence of this in Palin.
I hope debate watchers won’t call her performance tonight a huge success if she’s a successful parrot.

Ms. Parker is suggesting a Romney as a replacement for Palin because he would be a good economic adviser. McCain’s choice of Palin was entirely political. If we wanted actually strengthen the governing prowess of the ticket, he should have chosen Romney first.

The issue is not whether or not McCain showed good judgement, but with his running mate having the very real possibility of becoming president, whether his action has the potential to subvert America’s future.

It is a shame the standarts are so low that we even imagine Palin as president.

My standarts are higher still…

If she doesn’t recall one supreme court case she opposed to, how is she going to appoint justices?

I feel a sense of desperation when I think of the implications of her presidency…

As a very interested Canadian observer, I cannot fathom why Biden need “go easy” on Palin tonight. As a potential VP and, given McCain’s age and health history, she must show her “readiness under pressure” tonight. I mean something beyond vacuous statements.

The reason that Palin is being scrutinized very closely is not because she is Republican or a woman, and not that she is from Alaska. The problem for her and the Republican Ticket is that she has never been vetted on the national level–and she has to pass this test to be able to even be considered a viable VP. The comedy, the gotchas all of it is fair game–including pushing her to see if she will stand up to the stress. Palin herself said so several months ago in relation to Hilary Clinton. If there were more time to work through the national vetting, she would probably pass the test–though not with me–after all if Bush could do it, she can too. The fact that she offers platitudes in response to specific questions is and should be a knock against her. The notion that Biden or Obama aren’t getting the same treatment is false. they have already been vetted nationally and passed the test–jaw dropping gaffs and all. It is the media’s responsibility to vet her, and the fact that she has been pushed onto the national scene so quickly is only to be expected–and is the fault of John McCain. Note the owners of the “Elite Media” are Republicans.

McCain / Palin — building a bridge to the Eleventh Century!!

It is a shame the standarts are so low that we even imagine Palin as president.

If she doesn’t recall one supreme court case she opposed to, how is she going to appoint justices?

Your stadarts are not higher - just different. I agree that actual knowledge and policy insight are good standards for a President to meet, but what right do we have to claim that our standards are “higher” or better than other voters’? To someone else, motherhood or being a good beer-drinking buddy might be what they look for in a President. The great thing about democracy is that everyone can select their own criteria and live with the consequences.

If Sarah Palin really believes ” Country first”, and if she had a sense of what being a true “public servant” in the highest office is all about, SHE WOULD HAVE WITHDRAWN…

People fail to see that what they saw as ” great instinct”, ” confidence” in Sarah Palin is nothing but predatory trait in her personality ability to get what she wanted to be. But that doesn’t make her anywhere near being remotely qualified for running for vice-presidency.

How some people can overlook her blatant ignorance in so many important issues of national importance and still call her “great choice” is even more mind-boggling than McCain’s choice.

In every single interview that she has had, Sarah Palin has been unable to articulate a single coherent thought. When asked a question she quickly packs a number of unrelated issues together in an answer that has nothing to do with the question. She has been unable to prove that she can learn from her mistakes or even acknowledge that she made a mistake. After her first infamous response on her foreign policy qualifications (Russia can be seen from an island in Alaska), she gave the same incredible answer not once but twice to subsequent reporters. She is not competent, she is not knowledgeable and does not appear to have ever been interested in any major issue of national or international importance. Charisma is not a qualification to run for high office in the most powerful country in the world.
As to her alleged executive experience, it should be analyzed in the press much more. How about her cronyism, her abuse of power, her “world view” that if you are not her friend then you are her enemy, her dealing with state business on personal emails to avoid possible subpoenas, her willingness to impose her tastes on Wassila’s readers, her hiring of an administrator to run a town of 5000 people despite her campaign pledge not to do so,her collection of per diem reimbursement for conducting business from home about half of her tenure as governor, and on and on. Why does it seem unfair to the public to ask these kinds of questions from someone who is after all running for a very high office. The McCain campaign is totally patronizing her. How about McCain accompanying Palin to a second interview with Katie Couric. Was that not outrageously paternalistic and sexist?
With his choice of Palin, McCain is definitely not putting country first. It is in fact a very dangerous proposition. If something would happen to McCain and Sarah Palin were to step in as president, her inability to think for herself, her lack of analytical skills and knowledge would open the door to the possibility that other advisers with more thought-out agendas would do the thinking anf governing for her. This is not a conspiracy theory. We have seen it with Karl Rove and Dick Cheney in the White House for the last 8 years.
Journalists and political opponents need to stop fearing that if they ask tough questions they will be branded as sexist and condescending. In my view, so far the sexism has come from the McCain campaign.

Most commentators, perhaps by way of being kind, avoid the term “substance” in discussing candidates. Our leader needs to be not only decisive, but thoughtful and open to other philosophical, practical and world views. He or she needs to demonstrate cohesive thinking and decision-making and have an appreciation for intellect, integrity, wisdom and growth. These are traits and values I want my president to hold dear, and I don’t see those in Sarah Palin.

In response to the comment posted by Peter Nelson, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 am EDT, regarding his claim, “what right do we have to claim that our standards are “higher” or better than other voters’? To someone else, motherhood or being a good beer-drinking buddy might be what they look for in a President,” consider the following: What is the job of a President? Is it to carry out the task of mothering or that of a beer-drinking buddy? Analogously, would you pick an engineer with no medical knowledge at all to heal you when you’re sick, or a doctor with no engineering knowledge at all to build you a bridge? Standards are measured by the specific practices in which we engage. As such, it is perfectly legitimate for people to argue and judge that others’ standards are lower, or even off the mark.
He also says, “The great thing about democracy is that everyone can select their own criteria and live with the consequences.” Indeed. But some consequences are more desirable, or dare I say, better than others. Thus, one’s right to vote should not be exercised lightly. It is a responsibility that requires us to make the right judgments about standards.

“To someone else, motherhood or being a good beer-drinking buddy might be what they look for in a President.”

With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy,

If you vote based on a candidate being a mother or a good beer drinking buddy, you might be a retard.

Mona Charen, for all her schooling and perceived “intelligence” comes off as a pure right wing ideologue. Forget “critical thinking” or reason. Not when her beloved right wing perspective is threatened.
Her rationale that “while Palin may not be ready TODAY, with a year or so of ’seasoning’ she’ll do just fine” is patently absurd. The position of the V.P. has him/her A HEARTBEAT AWAY from the presidency. We need someone ready to assume the presidency (as well as, obviously, the vice presidency) on JANUARY 20TH, 2009 … not sometime into the future.
Charen is an embarrassment to clear thinking conservatives.

How can anyone think she is ready to lead. If think Tom went way to easy on Sarah last hour. I am a woman physician, and certainly I was never given any breaks in my training because of that. She could be president of a very troubled US and the last thing we need is a third rate candidate. Why are we dumbing down our expectations? It is hard to tell the real interviews from the SNL ones. Funny but depressing!!!

Analogously, would you pick an engineer with no medical knowledge at all to heal you when you’re sick, or a doctor with no engineering knowledge at all to build you a bridge?

I wouldn’t. But in a democracy people are free to choose their criteria any way they want. Coastal intellectuals like us have one set of standards but other people may have other standards. We think our standards are better, which is why we have them; they think their standards are better, which is why they have them. The Constitution is neutral - it only specifies age and birth requirements. This is why we have elections. If there was an objectively-provable set of criteria, as you imply, we should write into the Constitution.

Anyway, as I said above, I think this airhead thing is just an act.

Concerning Ms. Parker: I didn’t listen to the hour yet but she did write a column for Townhall.com last year in which she accused Huckabee of savaging Mitt Romney for Mormon believes and painted Romney as being tolerant and kind toward Huckabee. If you followed the republican primaries you know that nothing could have been further from the truth and that she was shamelessly spewing propaganda. Anyone who writes such vitrolic nonsense should not be considered a serious political journalist. Below is a link to the aforementioned article I would suggest you read it and decide whether or not these are the writings of a reasonable person. I would argue they are not.

http://townhall.com/columnists/KathleenParker/2007/12/14/hes_not_satan,_hes_my_brother

Regarding: “I am awed by Palin’s defence of the idea that she has experience. The twisting of reasoning and complete lack of logic is awesome (and not in a good way). I can see a synagogue from my house, does that make me an expert on Judaism?” -Mark

I too have been impressed by the support of Palin (and Bush before)until this week. Kathleen Parker was on NPR’s Talk of the Nation this monday and Palin supporters were asked to call him and explain why they support her (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95177403). It helped me understand why Democrats and Independence will continue loosing elections even if the now infamous “Miss Carolina” A.K.A. Gov Palin were their opponents.

Logic and rational thinking is not a requirement to vote. Underestimate Palin and the Republcian machine at your own peril.

Some people would choose a doctor instead of an engineer to build a bridge just because the doctor has the “right” set of values on guns and abortion, and the engineer does not. To hell with the bridge. As long as our guns are with us…

Logic and rational thinking is not a requirement to vote. Underestimate Palin and the Republcian machine at your own peril.

Exactly. Many posters here seem to have an infatuation with the idea that objective, rational criteria should have some sort of primacy here.

But that idea is, itself, irrational, and in no way founded on objective facts. It has a quaint-old-fashioned 19th century quality like the idea in classical economics that people are “rational utility maximizers”.

You want evidence? How about all the Republican Congressmen who claimed they decided at the last minute to vote against the bailout Monday because Pelosi made a partisan speech? How about the package of “sweeteners” having nothing to do with the bailout that it took to get Senators to vote on it yesterday?

Politics is a GAME. Didn’t anyone here in this allegedly politically-aware crowd even ask themselves how the Senate managed to get past Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution to vote on this in the first place, given that it hadn’t passed the House? (hint - they attached it to a renewable energy bill). It’s all a game and games are about psych’ing out the other side.

Some people would choose a doctor instead of an engineer to build a bridge just because the doctor has the “right” set of values on guns and abortion, and the engineer does not.

Exactly. And they have that right under the Constitution. Competence is not a requirement. We’ve seen real-world examples of this, for example with ideologically-pure political hacks being appointed to run federal agencies like Justice and FEMA.

It’s hard to understand the validity of the points made by various Palin supporters. I’ve heard many woman say that her ability to have a family and a career makes her a ’strong woman’ and ‘I like her!’. That’s it? In many ways, she’s a pretty every day person. She just happens to have this basic attractiveness and ‘homeyness’ that stops reason in its tracks. I know plenty of men and women I admire in MY small town who know enough to stay within there scope of things. There’s been another wave of anti-intellectualism with a veneer of patriotism and nationalism that many seem to think is the real strength in this country. It really concerns me that it seems to be heading further in that direction. I just hope we don’t sink too low before people reconsider what this country really stands for.

There’s been another wave of anti-intellectualism with a veneer of patriotism and nationalism that many seem to think is the real strength in this country. It really concerns me that it seems to be heading further in that direction. I just hope we don’t sink too low before people reconsider what this country really stands for.

It certainly doesn’t stand for intellectualism.

Seriously, in many countries they honor writers, philosophers, and other intellectuals far more than they do in the US. In Europe they put their pictures on the currency; they name major streets after them.

The US has always had a strong streak of down-home populism and anti-intellectualism, and has always looked down on intellectuals as a kind of effete class with European affectations. Intellectuals, with their skepticism and analysis have always been seen as a threat to the home-spun religiosity that dominates US culture.

One of my persistent themes in the OnPoint forums is that too many people here don’t get out enough. They do not realize how very different the US is from the liberal, academic, educated confines of places like Boston where the show originates. I was in North Carolina last week - it’s a different world down there.

I thought Mona Charon’s commentary was shallow.

Let’s be clear. McCain’s pick of Palin was foolish and irresponsible. Keeping her on the ticket is reckless. “Country first! Indeed.

Folks, we are now talking about a woman who could not even describe (let alone name) a Supreme Court case with which she disagreed. Not Scott, not Plessy. Nothing. Instead, she babbled, believing her audience was utterly without attention or sense.

I think we have reason to wonder about Palin’s intellectual capabilities. In fact, I don’t think it’s rude or coarse or inappropriate to say, simply, that Sarah Palin is stupid.

She was clearly elected governor based on emotionalism and cute gimmicks. She has a petty, vindictive style of governing. She has repeatedly distorted her record.

When asked, she could not even name a single newspaper or magazine she reads regularly.

Reagan began this. He perfected a kind a message delivered with sunny, grandfatherly senility that said “Everything’s going to be OK.” Naturally, we fell for it.

Bush swaggered and babbled incoherent gibberish. Go slinger! Dead or alive! I’m the Decider! We bought it.

And now this.

RE: Palin’s intellectual abilities

I would like officially to chastise myself for calling Palin “stupid” in my last posting. I watched the Couric interview after listening to the program. I was offended and chagrined by the sheer inanity of her answers, and I was insulted that she thought that sort of thing was good enough for a vice presidential candidate.

However, I should not have called her stupid. I like this program because that sort of thing doesn’t go on here. I also like that we get intelligent, thoughtful conservative voices on this program.

There has to be a way, however, that we can face the reality exposed by Couric in that interview. Those were not particularly aggressive questions. Couric showed a great instinct by leaving Palin plenty of time to think.

So, I take it back. I should not have said Palin is “stupid,” and I should not fear that this the Great Butterslide of western democracy. Palin’s candidacy is embarrassing as hell, and discouraging, and disheartening, and shameful. But Obama’s going to win this thing.

I don’t think it’s rude or coarse or inappropriate to say, simply, that Sarah Palin is stupid.

I hate to sound like a broken record (remember those?) but really: so what?

Bush was “stupid” in much the same way and yet he was reelected to a second term with the biggest vote count in US history and even as recently as last night, as a lame-duck he still managed to get the Senate to support his legislation 75-25! We should all be so “stupid”; probably the Democrats can’t produce anyone that “stupid”.

The important thing is to have the skills needed for your role. Tom Brady and Eli Manning probably can’t write C++ code but they make a lot more than I do because they can throw a football. Sarah Palin is not a software engineeer or quarterback or a President; she’s a politician and in politics the game is to get elected and in our country that doesn’t necessarily take knowledge about policy or history.

You might want it to be some other way; but that’s just not how it is. Maybe Eli Manning should have to solve math problems or give a piano recital to get a first down, but those aren’t in the rules of football; likewise there’s nothing that requires a politician to know what she’s talking about to get elected.

“One of my persistent themes in the OnPoint forums is that too many people here don’t get out enough. They do not realize how very different the US is from the liberal, academic, educated confines of places like Boston where the show originates. I was in North Carolina last week - it’s a different world down there.”

This is ridiculously arrogant. I was born and raised in southeastern Virginia, went to school in North Carolina, California, and New Hampshire. In addtion to those places, I’ve lived in Texas, rural Vermont, Minnesota, and I now live in Eastern Washington.

In every place, I made friends that are easily more thoughtful, rational, and intellectual than you.

And when you were in North Carolina, did you go the Research Triangle Park? The community was number 3 in PhDs per capita, way higher than Boston. And do you know who was number 1? Huntsville Alabama.

This is ridiculously arrogant. I was born and raised in southeastern Virginia, went to school in North Carolina, California, and New Hampshire. In addtion to those places, I’ve lived in Texas, rural Vermont, Minnesota, and I now live in Eastern Washington

I have more family in North Carolina than any other state. Research Triangle Park is an anomaly for North Carolina - it is NOT representative of the state. North Carolina has areas of urban poverty and violence, for example around Durham, that make Dorchester and Roxbury MA look like a leafy suburb. North Carolina has a military culture that simply has no equivalent in Massachusetts. North Carolina has rural poverty, with all its matching alcohol and drug abuse, that people in Massachusetts have never seen the likes of. North Carolina has anti-union laws that would never pass muster here. And of course North Carolina has a deeply-rooted Christian conservative culture that defies anything you’ll see in MA. Do you want to talk statistics? Murder rate (2X Massachusetts) Divorce rate (1.9X Massachuetts), etc. It is truly a different place, culturally and politically, from Boston and you’re naive if you don’t realize this.

I can back up everything I said with facts, so before you call people “arrogant” or other names, check your data and spend some time in liberal academic enclaves like Boston MA or San Francisco, meet a few of the local Prius-driving, NPR-listening, college professors who elect the liberal politicians from such places. Are you really asserting the the political culture here is anything like that in most US locales? If you think so then how soon do you think North Carolina (or Texas or Washington or Virgina or Alabama) will legalize gay marriage? How soon do you think they’ll have a universal health insurance plan anything like Massachusetts’?

But Obama’s going to win this thing.

The Iowa Electronic Markets, which are the most consistently reliable polls on the planet, certainly show Obama opening up a wide lead. Yesterday the MacCain campaign abandoned Michigan to focus their resources elsewhere.

But there’s a long way to go before Election day, including 2 more debates and the possibility of an October Surprise.

I advanced my theory, above, that Palin’s airheadedness is an act designed to set low expectations for her debate. If I’m wrong and Biden demolishes her we might expect McCain to make a trip out to the mound while gesturing for his bullpen. That might be interesting because it could change the race in dramatic ways.

Finally I have a liberal friend who is convinced that white-middle-America will never vote for a black man, and that once they’re in the privacy of the voting booth it will be very different from when they’re answering a pollster, and they’ll reflexively vote for the white guy. I don’t think that’s true enough to swing a big lead but I could see how it could swing a close race.

I just came back from a family wedding in North Carolina, and while it was impossible to escape the ultra-religiosity, sexism, anti-gay and NASCAR culture there, I do think racial attitudes are getting better. The wedding was held at an old plantation festooned with paintings of Confederate war heroes, but the crowd was black and white and the best man and maid of honor of the white wedding couple were African American.

“Are you really asserting the the political culture here is anything like that in most US locales”

Holy non sequitor Batman!! Interesting that you only focused on the one part of your ridiculously arrogant comment that’s defensible - that Boston is more liberal. No one would argue that that’s not true, and if you read my post carefully, I didn’t take exception with that.

What I did take exception to is the “academic, educated confines” part. You consistently come on here like you know more than everyone else and stay stupid stuff like this. I have a news flash for you: there are educated academic people throughout this country and you’re arrogant and ignorant for suggesting otherwise.

And by the way, I got my undergraduate degree from a SF Bay Area institution and spent the first fifteen years of my professional career working in downtown San Francisco, so your suggestion that I spend some time there is another example of your arrogance.

And BTW, been to Charlotte lately? Because if you had, you would’nt have written this: “Research Triangle Park is an anomaly for North Carolina.” Charlotte is now the southeast’s banking and finance center.

If we were to believe you, we’d had to conclude that the southeast’s finance center is run by a bunch of goobers.

Peter Nelson –

I agree that run of the mill aloofness, ignorance, and foolishness is not necessarily a bad thing in politics.

I also think that sometimes politicians who are actually very sharp can seem utterly silly on television. (Some people, for example, think N. Pelosi is sort of a lightweight, which is ridiculous of course.)

However, let’s agree, Peter. We’re not talking your ordinary case, here. Set aside her strange religious beliefs. Set aside her support for things like aerial wolf hunting. Set aside her willingness to abuse her office to avenge family members.

Just think about that Couric interview. She was asked about the Supreme Court. It’s what conservatives talk about ALL the time. The decision in New London. School prayer. The 67 CT condom decision. Whatever. People in her own fanatical, socially conservative enclaves rant about this stuff constantly. She could have chosen any one of these issues and just started talking.

I’ve never — really, never — seen a politician at a national level revealed so completely to be out of her league.

If we were to believe you, we’d had to conclude that the southeast’s finance center is run by a bunch of goobers.

You’re not fooling anyone, Michael.

You’re trying to duck the fact that most of the country is culturally vastly different from places like Boston and San Francisco, and you’re trying to claim it’s “arrogant” to say so. The fact is that it’s true. And you can see the proof of my observation that many NPR listeners are unaware of this by all the people who post to NPR forums like this claiming they “can’t believe” that anyone could vote for someone like Palin.

Pointing to little cosmpolitan islands in red states doesn’t change the fact that they are still red states with red-state values. Answer the questions I raised above: when will North Carolina allow gay marriage? When will the south allow the same union rights as the north? When will we see a universal health insurance scheme in those places like we have in Massachusetts?

I’ve never — really, never — seen a politician at a national level revealed so completely to be out of her league.

I thought I addressed this:

1. The whole airhead thing could be an act.

2. Is she really any more “stupid” than Bush? As I said above, Bush has been extremely effective as a politician. The last leader the Dems had with those kinds of political skills was Bill Clinton.

The thing that the liberals don’t “get” is that it’s not really about running the country; it’s about getting elected. And as we can see in many of the other comments in this thread, it drives the liberals nuts to think that someone would vote for a candidate on some basis other than their skills to run the country. But that’s actually more consistent with our system - the Constitution goes to great lengths to describe how to get elected, but it is almost silent about actual qualifications to hold office. It really IS about getting elected.

Look, I support Obama. I think he will probably win but it will be close. Since I live in Massachusetts where my vote doesn’t count for practical purposes, my wife and I are trying to figure out how ELSE to support him. Yesterday the McCain campaign announced a new push in Maine. Since we’re heading up to Maine next week, maybe there are some opportunities here.

Look, despite what Machael Brown thinks, the US is really very different from what some politically-coddled NPR-listening liberals think. The first thing we need to do is get clear-headed about it - millions of people really DO choose their candidates based on who they want to have a beer with or sit around the beauty parlor with, or which candidate can name the winner of the Sprint Cup. GET OVER IT. Learn to win elections within that reality.

Almost everybody on FOX said Palin won. MSNBC says the same. “She was the star” to quote MSNBC commentator Peggy Nonan.

That’s silly. Let’s remember. Everyone on Fox spent the last 48 hours impugning the professional ethics of Gwen Ifill, even calling upon her to “recuse” herself, as though that were an applicable term.

Peggy Noonan is a charming and intelligent woman. But it sounds like she’s prepared to ignore the fact that Palin spoke in inane snippets of memorized propaganda slogans. She frequently ignored questions. She offered few specifics on any matters of substance.
She repeatedly engaged in cutsie gestures like winking and saying “gosh darn it.”

If she “won,” it’s only because she didn’t sound like a complete idiot.

If she “won,” it’s only because she didn’t sound like a complete idiot.

OK, but that’s good enough.

She didn’t do badly at all - Biden certainly didn’t score a knockout, and many independent sources have already scored it at 50:50 (I’m writing this at 5 past midnight, ET)

Sure, she changed the subject when she didn’t know the answer, but at least she looked at the camera and didn’t sound like a wooden Washington bureaucrat. And her folksy delivery was very appealing to many people.

As I explained above, it’s not about your factual knowledge, it’s about connecting with ordinary people. And with expectations so low, by not losing, Palin won the debate.

“You’re trying to duck the fact that most of the country is culturally vastly different from places like Boston and San Francisco, and you’re trying to claim it’s “arrogant” to say so.”

Nice try at right wing BS, but the point is that you said that Boston and the east coast elite - and by association you - are smarter than the rest of us. To quote “They do not realize how very different the US is from the liberal, academic, educated confines of places like Boston where the show originates.”

I took objection to the “academic, educated confines of places like Boston where the show originates,” and you can’t defend that. Those of us that have spent our lives outside of Boston, and are very educated and academic, know you’re full of it, so your best course is to admit you’re being arrogant and move on.

I never disagreed that most of the country was “culturally different” from Boston. What I said was that the intellectual horsepower of this country is not constrained to Boston and the Northeast and you’re arrogant for suggesting otherwise. And I posted facts to substantiate it. These things are indisputable.

And do you remember how I DESTROYED you in the debates over cellulose based ethanol and Wall Street culpability in the mortgage meltdown? Well, here we go again. You start telling everyone on this board what they should be doing differently WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT!!

Have you ever considered shutting up and listening for awhile?

“Look, I support Obama. I think he will probably win but it will be close.”

I don’t believe this. This guy is a right wing troll trying to discourage real debate here.

If you’re really interested in what the trends are, go to http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Then go and look at the battleground states and do your own map here
http://www.270towin.com/

McCain has a huge uphill battle.

Again Peter, you’re full of it.

Palin won the debate by rising above the extremely low expectations she had going into it. She beat herself.

Biden sounded presidential and he won because at least he answered the questions.

Palin said some scary things such as she wanted to make the Vice President’s position stronger. Stronger than Dick Cheney’s tenure? Is she kidding me?

Watch out this woman is dangerous and she is not dumb or stupid. She has no intellectual curiosity and her ideas on Iran, which are McCain’s should scare every person in this country. Why? Because you can’t bomb Iran, they would light up the entire middle east in a matter of days. They can muster a million men into their military.
Iran is emerging as the new super power in the Middle East.

Mr. Nelson I live in Boston and I’m not a professor.
Most of my friends are artist or . My neighbors are policemen, city workers, electrician’s, plumbers, in short middle class people. I suspect a few are professor’s as well.

There is a guy up the block from me who has a McCain/Palin bumper sticker on his car.
I’m an independent who is fiscally conservative and liberal on social issues. It’s not so black and white.

Michael Brown is right you do come across as acting like your smarter than everyone else or just very insecure.
I always find it interesting how many times you have to remind people that your an ‘engineer’, as if that mattered in the context of this forum.

The debate was just another example of the liberal media trying to destroy Palin.

Gwen Ifill was biased against Palin. You might as well of had Jeremiah Wright moderating the debate.

I loved how Palin reminded an addled Biden about his own very clear statements about Obama’s readiness to be President.

Biden has done nothing but sit in Washington for the last 30+ years. He has no clue about what goes on outside the Beltway.

Mr. Nelson I live in Boston and I’m not a professor.
Most of my friends are artist or . My neighbors are policemen, city workers, electrician’s, plumbers, in short middle class people. I suspect a few are professor’s as well.

But that’s just anecdotal. There is no getting around the fact, as I mentioned above, that places like Massachusetts are politically and culturally very different from the rest of the country. The fact that Alabama has pockets of professors or Massachusetts has pockets of right-wingers doesn’t change that.

And, as I said earlier, the fact that many people in the liberal, politically-coddled NPR audience ARE out-of-touch with the rest of the country is clearly evidenced by all the postings we’ve seen in this an other threads by people saying that they are amazed or dumbfounded by people who support candidates on the basis of who they want to have a beer with, or who is most similar to them culturally or because of their religion, etc. All you have to do is read the comments in this and other threads and you’ll see dozens of such postings.

My comments that have gotten Michael so apoplectic (it’s fun and easy to get Michael apoplectic ) are really directed at the liberals here who have no clue how the rest of the US thinks so they’re astounded that Sarah Palin is so popular. In reality there is nothing astounding about it.

The debate was just another example of the liberal media trying to destroy Palin.

Gwen Ifill was biased against Palin. You might as well of had Jeremiah Wright moderating the debate.
Posted by Archie B

Your kidding right?
Why us it that some people on the right play this game of “the media got me”, “poor me”… because after 8 years of the worse presidency since Caligula the only thing people like yourself can do is play the victim card.

Pathetic, just so sad and pathetic.

The debate was just another example of the liberal media trying to destroy Palin.

Gwen Ifill was biased against Palin. You might as well of had Jeremiah Wright moderating the debate.
Posted by Archie B

Your kidding right?
Why is it that some people on the right play this game of “the media got me”, “poor me”… because after 8 years of the worse presidency since Caligula the only thing people like yourself can do is play the victim card.

Pathetic, just so sad and pathetic.

I hope Peggy responds to Jack Beatty’s nonsensical comments on Reagan.

“And, as I said earlier, the fact that many people in the liberal, politically-coddled NPR audience ARE out-of-touch with the rest of the country is clearly evidenced by all the postings we’ve seen in this an other threads by people saying that they are amazed or dumbfounded by people who support candidates on the basis of who they want to have a beer with, or who is most similar to them culturally or because of their religion, etc.” Posted by Peter Nelson, on October 3rd, 2008 at 10:54 am EDT

I don’t think that these people are necessarily out of touch. I think that most of these folks realize how the majority may succumb again to certain appearances and rely on their personal preferences to pick their candidates–which criteria need not capture the essential qualities of a good president. But just because such criteria have determined the winner time and time again does not mean that this is the norm or the only “reality.” We need to distinguish between what’s empirically the case and a reality that is being missed. Yes, it is very likely that the majority may be wrong again in this election. But just because some people resent that doesn’t mean that they are out of touch.

“(it’s fun and easy to get Michael apoplectic”

I’m glad you enjoy it too. I was just telling my wife last night how much fun it is making you look like a dunce.

Her response was that I might also like shooting fish in a barrel.

Gwen Ifill is trying to destroy Palin. Ifill is in the tank for Obama, and she wrote a book!

The debate was unfair. Ifill threw it to Biden. The liberal media is out to get Palin.

Palin is a barracuda. She is a barracuda AND a bulldog. Or rather pitbull.

When she’s a fish, she wears doesn’t wear lipstick. When she’s a canine, she does.

I don’t know if she wears bracelets. Maybe.

I am astounded that people, particularly women, buy into Sarah Palin’s cutesy down home delivery. I find it offensive, demeaning and disingenuous (did I mention embarrassing). We will be going from the barbeque king to the fish fry princess.

I find it hypocritical that the Palin camp expects the media and her opponent to treat her with respect (or kid gloves better said) and certainly they should not be condescending and then she goes and pulls the gender drenched “take the naught man to task” (with a smug “I can get you but can’t get me” smile) card a number of times last night. YUCK!

If she does not have the strength(s) to just be a candidate taking the goods and the bads coming at her then as they say, “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.”

Of course this is not even getting into her qualifications to be VP and perhaps even the President; now that I think of it this won’t take long because they are scant at best. It blows my mind that Palin was even put before us a viable choice – it is insulting. All I can think of is she would be a VP with training wheels. Can we afford, at this very tenuous time in our history, to have a possible President who is so unprepared. Think about the doctor analogy – would you want a first (even third) year med student doing delicate brain surgery on a member of your family. Not me!

I’d prefer a VP with training wheels than a President with them. When it comes to brain surgery, Obama is still a organic chemistry-majoring undergrad.

Hi,
Well I’m a Father of 4 wonderful children,
and if I degraded them everytime they made a small mistake than I would consider myself a bad parent.
What is so different about this?
Senator Palian has entered a new field,
Being on the spot light in front of the whole nation
vs. being on the spot light for Alaska.
When a Major Sports player; Misses a Basket or a Catch,
or get’s struck out on the plate: DO WE AS SPECTATORS
OR COACHES DUMP THE PLAYER OR GIVE THEM MORE CHANCES FOR CORRECTING AND IMPROVING THEIR POSITON ON THE TEAM ?
THESE PLAYERS ARE PAIDED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS,
AND GIVEN A CHANCE TO PROVE THEMSELVES.
WE ARE TALKING 700 BILLION DOLLARS&A WOMAN THAT HAS NOT BEEN VISE-PRESIDENT GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO PROVE THEMSELVES RIGHT - OR- WRONG

I’d prefer a VP with training wheels than a President with them. When it comes to brain surgery, Obama is still a organic chemistry-majoring undergrad.

THANK YOU JACK!!!! For stating the obvious. I don’t understand how sooo many people scrutinize this woman for her lack of experience but no one will dare make such a statement of democrat presidential nominee Obama. It is inappropriate to say anything along the lines of Obama NOT being fit/ready/prepared/adequate for the presidential office in our mainstream media. Yet Somehow McCain is the laughing stock because of his DECADES of work for the American people (its all just a “ha ha ha” that man is old). For McCain his age should reflect his years of military service, his years in public office, and wisdom along with his LIFE experience & knowledge of all the “inner workings” of Washington.
On a side note: yes I am democrat and yes I will vote REPUBLICAN because of the candidates policies, their past legislation, their experience and their stance on important issues such as abortion and so forth. And no I am not the typical republican white, middle class, protestant, conservative voter. I am a liberal 20 year old Californian first generation Latin immigrant citizen and a catholic who is yearning to see McCain WIN the war (not forfeit) and who would be proud to see Palin as VP.
I will not come back to this website again (just because I don’t care to see what trash people might post concerning this) so I will say in my defense:
*My brother is in the military (for over a year he was stationed in Baghdad/Sadar City) is currently stop-loss and is serving an extra year and eight months as I type in Afghanistan (he too will vote for the best candidate: McCain).
And
*I am a college student who is tired of being chastised for my support of McCain. Last time I checked this is the USA and there are some basic rights given to its citizens and I have the freedom to choose a candidate as I see fit & you do to. (let me add that the most recent time my father voted there was a number of people at the voting location who insulted (in more than one way), condemned, disparaged, criticized, mocked and belittled him for being Republican ~when did this become acceptable in such a modern world?)
All that there is left to say is that when all is said and done it will a majority of American people who will decide… and majority rules.

Palin proved last night she has that readiness to get the job done because she knows the mission and how to get this country back on track.

She also showed that she has a plan to get things done. Palin reminded us that she’s fought corruption and greed, and she will do it again. What we shoudn’t do is look backwards. We should look forwards and not blink.

“Palin proved last night she has that readiness to get the job done because she knows the mission and how to get this country back on track.

She also showed that she has a plan to get things done. Palin reminded us that she’s fought corruption and greed, and she will do it again. What we shoudn’t do is look backwards. We should look forwards and not blink.”

I guess I’m not so easily impressed. Anyone can get up there and show enthusiasm, say they’re on a mission, and speak into the camera with a familiarity and informality (a folksiness, if you will).

Why is this enough for some of my fellow Americans? If I was hiring someone to run a company I owned, the one selected for the job would be the most impressive candidate, would not just shine in one quality but would bring forth a multifaceted competency.

What accounts for this low-standards phenomenon? Is the medium the message (since it is on TV it must be entertainment)? Is it that in the age of television we have a fundamental need to be entertained?

Is it our belief that “anything is possible”, so we want to see a nobody become somebody overnight, a six year old become a Harvard doctor by the second grade?

Is it an American optimism taken too far? Optimism to the point of stupidity. Everything will be OK. It doesn’t matter who is president, any mistakes are fixable. It isn’t as if Palin could tell off Putin during talks and trigger war and a nuclear holocaust. That’s not possible.

And how is her “no blinking” motto is not frightening to everyone? Don’t blink? Don’t give serious matters grave thought? Just react right away and damn the consequences? Is this not the main quality separating immaturity from maturity, stupidity from wisdom? Did you know that a famous insane and immoral warmonger’s motto was to “never hesitate”(Napoleon)?

It’s time to grow up Americans!

911 made you serious for a few months.

What is going to take to make you a more serious people permanently?

Will it really take the downfall of America as we know it to accomplish that?

There’s only one thing more scary than Sarah Palin in the Whitehouse…That’s CHICAGO MACHINE POLITICS RUNNING OUR COUNTRY. Trust me, we don’t want that kind of CHANGE ladies and gentlemen!

“Palin proved last night she has that readiness to get the job done because she knows the mission and how to get this country back on track.”

You’re kidding, right? Even Republicans are cringing at her ignorance. How can you think someone that can’t even tell you where she gets her news is qualified to be VP?

I’d be scared if I weren’t so certain that your guy is gonna get crushed.