What I find extremely frustrating at this early stage is the widespread use of the term ‘Landslide” by the media and associated pundits. Yes, I voted for Senator McCain, but like in his own concession speech I am willing to follow our newly elected president (I’m an over twenty-year military officer).

Unfortunately your liberal (sometimes Democratic) pundits, and Senator Obama’s own spokespeople run the risk of quickly alienating nearly 50% of the electorate, by discounting the actual results of the election. It is by no means a minor thing that the Obama campaign outspent the Republican effort nearly 3 to 1, but only gained a roughly 5% edge in the popular vote.

I don’t know what world your democratic spokespeople come from, but 5% does not indicate a “mandate of the people.” The incoming administration and their supporting liberal/progressive pundits would do well to start promoting a bipartisan effort to solve our country’s challenges, when a large segment of the country has already officially voted against the President Elect’s publicized plans.

Well the Republicans did this to me for the past 8 years.

How come OnPoint closed down the forum on the last show?

“They were invested in John McCain. Invested in Barack Obama.”

And some were invested in Cynthia McKinney. And Ralph Nader. And Chuck Baldwin. And Bob Barr.

Suppose we try to be objective about judging Obama’s presidency, emphasizing results over methods and ideology. When we access our world four years from now, how will we answer the question “Are you better off now than you were?” What if we try to agree now on a set of measures we’ll use later. Having such a list might help keep our future judgements in perspective and decrease partisan differences in our assessments, both positive and negative.

Off hand, it seems to me that peace and prosperity are the primary goals of an American administration. These should be interpreted as broadly as possible. Peace doesn’t just mean that we are not engaged in military actions overseas, but also that Americans are actually safe from foreign powers and have reason to believe they will remain so. Prosperity means that a robust economy is benefits a significant majority of the population. Perhaps these definitions can be sharpened, but I hope that the broad outlines are clear enough.

Arguably, the greatest presidencies have not always corresponded with eras of peace and prosperity. Lincoln is often considered the greatest president and yet the Civil War was the bloodiest chapter in American history. On the other hand, Reagan passes the peace and prosperity test, in spite of my own personal distaste for his social programs. On his watch, the Cold War came to a favorable conclusion and by most conventional measure the economy was healthy. FDR’s results were mixed. Although hard times persisted during his administrating, there was both good GDP growth in every year except 1933 and 1937. The DOW more than trippled from 1933 to 1940. Still, by any objective measure World War II did not constitute peace, though it is reasonable to make the case that Roosevelt responded heroically to events beyond his control.

It is easier to access economic success than it is to access national security. We’d like to see good growth in stock values, in the broad economy, and in employment. The DOW, GDP, and unemployment data can reasonably represent these three elements. If all three average greater than 6% anual improvement, over the first term of the new presidency, I think that would be a resounding success, especially given current circumstances. More likely the results will be mixed. How should we tighten the criteria?

As to national security, certainly we’d be happy to avoid any major acts of terrorism on US soil. Beyond that, I’d like to see the war in Iraq scaled back in conjunction with greater political stability in the Middle East. I’d like to see Afghanistan and Pakistan stabilized. I’d like to see America’s traditional alliances strong. No doubt there will be differences with our new economic rivals, China and India, but they so long as these coexist with strong and free trading relationships, we needn’t feel threatened by them.

Am I missing something?

What are core American values?

I don’t believe in the bible or god for that matter.
It’s a nice story written by men from the bronze age however it’s not basis to make political decisions.

I don’t want people in charge who believe in talking snakes, and that some all mighty being in space will guide them. That they know without and doubt that there is a heaven as a place where you go when you die. That there are winged beings flying around in white robes.

These are myths.

The two Republican guests on this show need to show contrition and apologize for what they and the people they voted for have done to this nation.

For the Republican small businesswoman from Indianapolis, she needs to know that Republicans aren’t for business — they’re for Enron. They’re in favor of large-scale organized theft to benefit a few cronies, and they are completely fiscally irresponsible. If you ran your business they way they ran the company, you’d be in jail — but they can pardon their important friends. They have driven the country to the brink of a next Great Depression. Think about what you’ve done by voting for them again.

For the “values voter” from Iowa, the Republican party has done nothing but take you for a ride and saddled you with failed social policies. Want marriage to be sacred? Move to a blue state where divorce rates and unplanned pregnancy rates are much lower. How does Jesus feel about the 6,000 plus veterans returning from Afghanistan and Iraq who are now amputees, fewer than half of which have full coverage through the VA? Do you think Jesus is against healthcare for veterans and children?

Until I hear Republicans start expressing contrition for what they’ve done, they’re not welcome at my dinner table, their kids aren’t having playdates with my kids, and I’m not going to give them a darn thing that will increase their social, economic, or political power.

Push again please, what does SOCIAL ENGINEERING mean?!?

What do these scary terms MEAN?? “Social Conservatives” toss these comments out there but what do they mean? How will Obama federalize “vast areas of the nations economy” as someone stated from the previous hour.

I find today’s program disturbing because the Republican representatives like Scheppler on air appear to be regrouping around a blitz of right-wing social conservative issues.

This is no doubt because of the one glimmer of hope in the election was neo-assimilated minorities voted against gay marriage because they refuse to share their emergent power, however, the tenor and appeal of Obama’s campaign message was unity.

Republicans loose their elections because they immediately jump to these Rovian tactics of divisive social issues to rally a core of ultra conservative religious types to consolidate their power …

Yesterday, I went out and bought an American Flag and hung it out on my porch. I am FINALLY proud of my country and my flag–after eight years embarrassed by our loss of democracy. And anyone who thinks the past administration was democratic does not understand the definition of demagoguery or oligarchy.

If the republicans had won, flags would litter the streets , so why aren’t democrats doing the same? What I saw on Tuesday night was democrats praying–republicans are not the only people who pray–democrats celebrating our patriotism–republicans are not the only patriots–democrats embracing each other racially. So encourage your listeners to hang a flag and be PROUD!

As of this moment, we have met the enemy and he is us. The election has given people on the progressive side of the spectrum a chance to prove that we can govern more effectively than the previous administration. If we accomplish this, we will consolidate OUR power. If not, we will see a shift to the right during coming election cycles. We control our destiny.

Wait just one minute, your guest just stated that she would hope for this country to become more color blind,yet she said she supported Sarah Palin because she is a female. But, my fellow female person, Mrs. Palin is the poorest representative of femininity, in general, that I could possibly imagine.

The “babe” that all the old white guys go ga-ga over because of her looks is dumb as a post. Personally, I don’t want Barbie representing me or my daughter in any way as a “leader”. If she’s such a great proponent of “family values” let her return to her home and family in wild Alaska where her Down’s baby needs her a hell of a lot more than grown-up American women do.

For that matter, On Point should show some contrition for having yet another “shape of earth, views differ” and “let’s all get along” lovefest instead of doing some actual fact-finding. Giving people with uninformed and dangerous points of view airtime and then not challenging them doesn’t pass as journalism.

I am 51 years old, and while I have been proud of the United States at times in my life, I most assuredly am not always proud of it. I think those (Sarah Palin comes to mind) who say they are always proud of the US are either shallow, have no experience and/or being intellectually dishonest. I am not always proud of myself or of my children. As such, why would I always be proud of my country, regardless of what it does? What we need are more people who actually THINK about what the US does and thinks about the ramifications of our actions and policies on our own citizens and those who live in other countries. I have been lucky enough to live in foreign countries in Asia and Europe for 10 years, and that provides a basis to see the impact of US power - positive but also negative.

I would very much like to hear some specifics about the meaning of such catch phrases as “social engineering.” What exactly do McCain supporters fear from an Obama administration? Can we get beyond the code words that have worked so well for so many elections? (My own favorite is “Virginia values.”

On the issue of ‘being proud of country’, the error is that people deal in absolutes. In reality, countries have done and still do policies that abuse the citizenry and (in extreme cases) encourage emigration. All countries - even ours - are susceptible to such behavior. In my opinion, a citizen’s devotion to country should be balanced with the country’s devotion to the citizen. If that balance is not maintained (maybe today USA might be unbalanced), ugly things can happen in the society.

I am 24 and agree with the renewed sense of pride in this nation expressed by many listeners. For me, this has a lot to do with the world’s view of America. Talking to people while traveling abroad over the past 8 years has been difficult because of declining respect for our government (and Americans in general) and I look forward to talking to people who look up to our country once again.

I am 34 and my generation has been yearning for a leader that would help us sacrifice to a good end. But the boomers have created a selfish and mean US. when we went to war, why were we not asked to save energy, wear sweaters, start victory gardens, etc. The republicans asked us to go shopping. Obama has asked from day one for sacrafice. I know that I am ready and so are my friends and family to sacrafice to make us a better country and people.

Taxes - The same old stuff. Everybody wants to cut taxes, but not cut benefits. It’s simple math folks. We can’t freeze the military, entitlement and veterans affairs (as McCain proposed) and still cut taxes! If we want to cut taxes, everything needs to be on the table. Our military is part of the government and is just as, if not more, inefficient than any other branch of government. It also is not making us more secure, if we think more broadly about what security really is. It doesn’t make us secure to borrow money from the Chinese, Indians, etc. to promote our ill-advised imperial overreach, which causes many people in the world to dislike us. I am tired of hearing that we need to have a huge military to be secure. It is simply not true. Contrary to what some may believe, God did not preordain that the US msut always have the most powerful military in the world.

IMHO,it would pay to be more precise when we are talking about what we are “proud of” or “ashamed of”. As a parent, one learns fast to say, ” I was ashamed of WHAT YOU DID” - and never “I was ashamed of YOU”. Transferring this to feelings about country, we can be more careful to say “I am ashamed of THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE NAME OF THE UNITED STATES” or - as I think a guest just said, “Now I can feel proud of the politicians we have elected.” It’s time to stop confusing reactions to actions and policies with our love of country and shared ideals.

We all love the America of our great dreams, our perpetually-becoming Land of Liberty and Justice for All. We can - and do - feel ashamed when the actions of those who represent our homeland seem to us to betray those great dreams and ideals. That does not mean we cast aside our love of country and pride in the history of America. Can we press each other for what we really mean, instead of freaking out, please? And I do direct this to BOTH sides of the political spectrum.

Good points, Mari and Jim, and ones that sadly aren’t discussed much in the media.
The caller who has a problem with some cultures incorporating a siesta into the day and with countries that do not immediately rally around the U.S. flag every time we assert ourselves in the world demonstrates a huge problem in the U.S. today. The problem, not to be offensive, is ignorance. Many Americans simply know too little about the rest of the world to be able to regard our country with any perspective. That caller, like so many Americans who spout off about France “badmouthing” us, could serve her country better by reading some history books (especially one about how we won our independence) and seeking out multiple news sources before voicing her opinion on the radio.

I have become short of patience with the supposed contrast of “social engineering” with the “good old American values” world where we robotically recited the Pledge of Allegiance in school. As a University of Rochester alum I can tell you that Robert Bellamy, another Rochester graduate, conceived of and popularized that pledge as a magazine marketing promotion. Bellamy and his employer were utopian socialists! The whole point of the thing was to inculcate school children with somebody’s ideas of education and socialization.

Please note that the original salute to the flag was not the hand over the heart as we know it in post-WWII America. It was a stiff-armed salute made popular by the guy who saw the real value of this kind of blind adherence to sound-bite ideology: Adolf Hitler.

Why is it that my cub scout manual with flag etiquette, my childhood pledge ritual, and so many other such cultural items are American civic values and the expansion of public education and health care are social engineering?

Don’t we all need to examine our prejudices here?

Perhaps you could do a show on this topic of the pledge, the rise of public education, and social engineering.

Today’s On Point show is just over. I was so frustrated by the McCain supporter at the end who would NOT stay on point: “won’t work more because government would take extra money; won’t be able to pay workers’ health insurance; nationalized health care.” And when Ashbrook pushed for explanation, the speaker [male] just kept ignoring what Ashbrook was stating re: we’ve had a progressive tax system for a long time; there will be no nationalized health care if you believe Obama; etc. And the man wouldn’t answer what was asked! When asked finally if he thought the economy had been doing well recently under this administration, he ignored the question again. That’s why I can’t listen to many conservative McCain supporters/Republicans. They refuse to answer any counter arguments. And earlier, the woman and man who said there are certain ‘core values’ that this country was founded on and they don’t want to see them disappear. But they don’t say WHAT those core values are that Obama would ignore, that are in danger!? And Ashbrook didn’t insist that they identify those values. I hate vague innuendo that isn’t supported with fact or explanation. As an adult you can’t spout opinion you can’t back up. That’s the teen-agers’ excuse: “Everyone’s entitled to his own opinion.” Everyone is not. Not as an educated adult–not if he expects his opinion to be listened to.

MY COMMENT;
I WAS FRIGHTENED BY THE AMOUNT OF HATRED BY PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE PALIN RALLIES..YOU CAN SEE IT ON THE WEB YOURSELVES..SHE ATTRACTED SOME GROUPS WHO WANT TO HATE AND HER REMARKS WERE AIMED TO STIR FEAR…THAT APPRAOCH CERTAINLY DID NOT REPRESENT REPUBLICANS WELL.

MY QUESTION;
WILL THE REPUBLICANS STEP UP NOW AND TAKE THE HIGH ROAD TOWARDS UNIFYING THIS ENTIRE COUNTRY?
FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS WE NEED TO HEAR POSITIVE FROM THE REPUBLICANS TO ENSURE OUR NEW PRESIDENT’S AND THIS COUNTRY’S SAFETY.
I WILL BE VERY PROUD OF THEM- BUT IF THIS IS NOT ACTIVE-
IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG FOR OUR NEW PRESIDENT- I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER THE PALIN RALLIES AND HOW IT ENFLAMED UNEDUCATED AMERICANS….

I started to laugh and then found myself shaking my head when I heard the comment about the French and WW2.

Deb Peters needs to read more history books. WW2 was not so black and white. Did she know that Republicans fought FDR tooth and nail on the “European war”.

What about all the other countries that Hitler’s Nazi’s conquered?

John Scheppler then went on to use threats, a typical Republican attack, on the possible progressive tax policies Obama will enact.

Health care needs to be a right, not a commercial market based busniess. If we had a well run national health system would it not help busniess’s like his?

I’m struck by some of the profound ignorance expressed on this program.

Siestas are not European as such, but a practice of those who live near the equator simply because the ambient temperature is too hot to work during mid-day. You will find people who live and work in these regions of the planet take a mid-day “siesta” and then return to work until late into the evening i.e. 10/11:PM. This was the case most in places until the advent of air-conditioning.

Written in 1892, The Pledge of Allegiance was officially instituted during the WWII in 1942. The “under god” portion added in 1954, is a relict of the cold war.

FYI >>http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm<> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance&lt;&lt; “Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).”

Personally, my allegiance is to the United States Constitution, and not the symbol of any Republic. The nation and the symbol (the flag) have no meaning without the Constitution, however the Constitution is meaningful regardless of the nation or its symbol.

Lastly, health care; European countries and Japan have nationalized health care and their industries are more competitive than America’s. Simply on a business level, if the United States had national health care, that cost of doing business, could be excluded from the cost business. US industry would again become competitive with this one step alone. I suspect the US auto industry does not support nationalized health care because; the auto industry and the insurance industry are invested in each other.

To the business owner in Iowa, imagine if you did not have to factor in the cost of health care, at all. Imagine if you could go into work everyday knowing that your family your employees and you all had the same level of health care as our Federally elected representatives.

But rest assured, this is NOT President-elect Obama’s plan. This would my plan, but then again I’m the lefty weirdo who works until 10:pm regardless of the ambient temperature, whose allegiance is to the Constitution, not the flag, and believes in “equality, liberty and justice for all.”

This is the chorus to the song “New Dawn Coming” by the Cowboy Junkies. This sums up how I, and hopefully many of my other countrymen feel, waking up to a new dawn of fresh hope. Here it is:

“Hold on honey there’s a new dawn coming
And a big bird to sweep us away
Keep on dreaming soon there’ll be a reason
To see it through one more day…”

I am a 45 year old caucasian male of British ancestry. I’m the descendant of immigrants, both legal and illegal. I’m a firm believer in the concept of the rule of law and all that implies. It is my most fervent hope that America will wake up from this long nightmare of greed, racism, illegal war, torture, suspension of habeas corpus, to a new dawn so eloquently described by Thomas Jefferson when he said: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men (people) are created equal. That they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

Let us wake up and embrace the dawn!

Pride in country and support of a standing military is as related as 9/11 was to IRAQ: only connected in the minds of insane neocons.

I don’t know a liberal or conservative alive who’s heart doesn’t swell when the American flag stands taller even during silly times like the olympics.

What pride in country IS related to is the GOVERNMENT. The people in power on capital hill and the white house who make POLICY decisions that affect our lives.

P.S. Obama’s mom was one of those “welfare queens” that republicans love to spit on. They want to ban abortion but are unwilling to care for children and pregnant women. With their lack of knowledge about science, they don’t seem to understand that embryos become children who require food, love, and responsible parents.

The only group working their tail off in the last 10 years are the middle and lower classes, plus poor workers in 3rd world countries. Employers and CEO’s have done NOTHING but BENEFIT from thier hard labor and increased their profits. None of these profits were used to INCREASE jobs, workers wages, or healthcare benefits.

The republican narrative of calling workers “lazy” people requesting “hand-outs”, while they sit in an office doing NOTHING but pushing paper and making phone calls has got to STOP. Americans have bought this lie for too long and need to PUSH-BACK and stand up to these bullies.

Keith, I’m with you my brother and I will add my secular amen to your comments.

On the topic of siestas, wasn’t there some scientific research that proved taking 20-minute naps during the afternoon actually helps people with being more productive? So why this hate for siestas?

I’d think companies would rush to dedicate a Nap Room in their offices, complete with reclining chairs, drapes and only cinema floor lights, to help their employees take advantage of scientific research and increase their productivity.

I am no longer proud of my country; in fact, I am deeply, deeply ashamed. I’ll let you know when that changes.

Majawill - what are you now ashamed of? Eight disastrous years? Huge deficit? Katrina aftermath? Good job Browny? Harriet Maiers on the Supreme Court? Cheney’s secret energy policy? Being stuck in Iraq? $700 billion of people’s money to investment firms and insurance companies? Outing CIA agents? Fooling around with Congressional pages? Soliciting sex in an airport bathroom? Free house renovations in Alaska? Bridge to nowhere? Not getting Bin Laden? No-bid no-accountability contracts? Walter Reed hospital? I guess these are the things we all should be proud of?

I have a son in the military about to return from his second tour in Iraq. I am also reading The Dark Side by Jane Mayer. This is in response to the comment by the person who just retired from the military, and who was upset that people have said that this is the first time that they have ever been proud of their country. People in the military need to understand that American civilians are proud of the men and women who serve in the military. But being proud of the individual men and women who serve in the military is different from being proud of the particular administration that is in power at any given time. And many Americans are not proud of the particular administration with its particular policies that was in power from 2000-2008. Americans want a administration and policies that they can be proud of, and that is why they voted for Obama. Americans would love to be proud of their government and its policies, and they hope they will find that pride with an Obama administration.

I would first like to commend Tom on having a truly moderate show, which is so rare these days. However, the military caller who questioned Merkleson’s lack of pride deserved a more even handed response. Why should a 21 year old feel pride in our country? I can feel fondness for certain places and people, but pride in my country certainly has something to do with our government’s actions. If I was in Paris and someone asked me, are you proud of the US? How could I in good conscience answer yes? And the military guy is angry because he is fighting for something, and he wants that something to make people proud. But its hard to say what that something is. And then, predictably, Merkleson gets defensive, “soldiers are heroes and I only meant the government.” Well, what is the military if not an extensions of the desires and commands of the government? If I don’t believe in a war, should I be proud of the people fighting that war? That doesn’t mean I have any ill will toward them, in fact I feel bad for them. They are getting a bad deal, no doubt about it. And maybe we all pity them so we call them heroes to make ourselves feel better about their sacrifice. But the word “heroe” implies some degree of moral righteousness, it is not simply the act of being brave, which is more fitting. Are all soldiers heroes, or just ours? Are employees of Blackwater heroes? They do essentially the same job. Our military is a reflection of our government, and our government a reflection of our country. Someone who has become politically aware within the last 8 years would have little reason to feel pride in either one. Opponents would imply that pride should be given out to your country blindly, but to really feel it, it has to be earned.

I have been embarrassed by this country for a decade. I don’t really know what to say to soldiers who’ve been fighting in Iraq except that I’m sorry — I’m sorry I didn’t know you in time to tell you that they were lying and this war was doomed from the very beginning. I’m ashamed of a country that sent soldiers into the battle field on a lie and that can’t find the wherewithal to provide decent health care for returning vets.

I’m embarrassed that our president has been on vacation for the last eight years and that the man our next president ran against doesn’t know that Spain is in Europe. And both of them are so totally out of touch with the economic circumstances of the average American — that, too, is embarrassing.

So yes, I’m proud of my country for the first time in a long while because we didn’t give in to racism, because millions of Americans, in the privacy of a voting booth with the curtains closed, choose to vote for a black man. I’m proud that American’s watched the debates and could see that Obama was simply more competent and more capable of leading a divided country in crisis. For listening to the RNC rhetoric about community organizers and electing a community organizer.

And if that is an insult to soldiers who’ve been fighting for this country, I don’t really know what to say.

The whole question of why a person would say he/she is now proud of our country is interesting. Someone whose ancestors came here from Europe and who became successful can be proud without modifying that term. Those of us whose ancestors came here in chains and who went on to face discrimination after that know that all has not been well. How could I be proud of the unfair treatment shown even towards black soldiers returning from World Wars I and II and other conflicts? At the same time black people have been loyal even when laws said,”You are second class. Pay your taxes but don’t expect to go to state sponsored schools that are paid for by those taxes.” etc.The equal rights that so many fought for were not given to us by a right thinking government until we made it clear that we would no longer stand for being treated unfairly. Proud of my country? Yes but not without qualification.

I don’t think pelosi, reid, shummer and frank will work with obama. They hold the money and they will tell obama how it’s going to be in Washington.

Deb talks about individual responsibility, but seems like John to abhor the idea that taxes for those who NET more than $250k might return to the pre-Bush tax cut level — which means a 3% increase. Is it that far-fetched to consider a 3% increase some form of personal responsibility.

Also, the references to personal values and social engineering by both remain unexplained. The hint is that it’s about THEIR social values, to which I say No Thank You.

If this is really to be a time of coming together, America, consider the sacrifice of tolerating a reasonable tax increase so we can address the many needs that face us. Get off the tired old stereotypes about people living off the government, and step up.

Thanks Richard for volunteering to pay more tax. I urge like minded citizens to step forward and do the same.

3% on 33% is approximately a 9% increase in your tax bracket if as a couple you make more than $200,000 and file jointly. That couple has already stepped up to their personal responsibility and is paying significant dollars. Bush’s tax cuts went across the brackets from high to low; all shared in the relief.

Why is the answer to the question raise taxes, as opposed to cutting spending? That’s the kind of sacrifice we could all tolerate.

[...] proud of my country 8 11 2008 On Thursday, I listened to part of the public radio program On Point. It was a wide-ranging conversation about the Obama election, but a dominant thread was the tired [...]

Please see my response, “I Am Not Proud of my Country,” at my blog. The link to this post:

http://shinymetalobject.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/i-am-not-proud-of-my-country/

I was really disappointed by Deb Peters and John Schlepper to a lesser extent went on about what they learned about in school - pride in country and hard work - and how they don’t see that in today’s society. They are baby boomers, obviously they haven’t noticed, people who grew up at the same time as they did have been in charge, decide what we, the later generations have been taught in school (and at home). The implication of their comments is those of use in Gen X, Gen Y, and Gen ME, or whatever we are, don’t know how to work and are valueless.

First, as our parents (or maybe now grandparents), they had the FIRST responsibility to teach us that hard work, pride in country, and whatever other values they hold to be important.

Second, and more importantly, their leadership has lead us to this point where we as a country are saddled with debt, bogged down in 2 wars, have crumbling infrastructure and schools. We are looking at having to pay for all of their tax cutting and expeditions and are going to be far more constrained in what we take on than they were. We are looking at having difficulty getting and keeping jobs, trouble getting and paying for health insurance, sending our young children to schools in terrible shape, all while watching the planet melt - so, yes, we are ready for a different direction than they have chosen, we maybe even ready for a little social engineering, whatever that means.

I would suggest that they start hoping that we are up to the challenge instead of criticizing us for wanting try something different and having different priorities given we are facing different problems, problems that require a lot more in the way of collective action than what they have chosen to tackle.

Majawill if you make more than 200k a year I don’t have any sympathy for your plight. Anyone making that much money and complains is just showing how selfish and greedy they are.

I guess the 8 years of the Bush tax cuts really worked to help the economy. How do you explain the current financial mess, your a genus enlighten us. Please don’t start with Fanny and Freddie as they are not the main reason for this mess.

The other thing is I don’t think Obama is going to raise taxes right now on people making more than 250k. Did you not notice he has stopped mentioning it.

Community Reinvestment Act of 1977
Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000
Internal Revenue Code 475 covering mark to market accounting standards
Fannie and Freddie increase of subprime mortgage purchases since 1995

That’s not the full reason for this economic problem and you know it. I have a friend who works for Morgan Stanley and I can tell that this was not the reason for the the collapsing markets. It had little to do with the downturn in the markets.

Fannie and Freddie did not help the situation, but to blame these institutions and low income people for this is shameful and a typical right wing tactic of looking for scapegoats. This was a real estate bubble and everyone was trying to get rich. To many people jumped into the wagon and now over a million or more people will lose their homes.

There is plenty of blame to go around here, but it’s mostly greed and lack of decent regulations and controls over the market. This happened on the Republican watch it’s a result of their BS. There were Wall Street Democrats who went along with it, but this is mostly due to people like former Sen. Phil Gramm has a lot to answer for. Like I said there is plenty of blame to go around. I also think Barney Frank should resign from the chairmanship of Financial Services Committee.

I hope Majawill for your sake that you have 30 year fixed like I do. If not good luck with that. Is your job secure? Do have enough saved in case you get laid off?